Great answer, thank you. I agree it's probably just smarter to shut up and play by the rules. That is just something I have always wondered about.
What legal questions do you have about IM?
- Thread starter mont7071
- Start date
Mont - This is definitely something you should do. You've found a niche, and it's such a good niche that you can share it with us and we are just in awe. No way could any of us be competitive in your niche
Since you helped us, here's an idea to help you:
If you were to write a book, I'd like to see this:
"I live in state XX, who is a good lawyer who knows this stuff like yourself that can help me?"
Not only will this get you less follow-up questions, but you could even get the lawyers to work on referrals for you too (not sure if they do that in your industry)... and then you're making money on BOTH ends (i buy the book, get referred to your CA lawyer and you get a referral from them too!)
Knowing these lawyers in every major city might be tough, but maybe you know how to find them. But it's something that'd be great in the guide.
But now you gotta realize that if you're gonna start this project, you're going to get a fuckton of e-mails. At what point does an e-book purchase become unprofitable? Or will you just refuse to give support?
What you could do is provide support on some sort of fee basis, and then start hiring a ton of paralegals around the country to do the work for you in each state. Not sure if that's legal as you aren't bar'd there.
Also looks like there'd be way more than 10 questions. International and intra-state questions can make up 30 questions alone.
OR, better yet, "How do I find out if this Lawyer XYZ is really good at Internet Marketing? What questions do I ask to 'test' them?" <-- maybe you can answer this one right here.
What are your thoughts on "e-whoring" basically paying girls to sit on a cam all day and promote dating/cam sites.
Will the model get in trouble if the viewer is under a certain age?
Will the model get in trouble if the viewer is under a certain age?
Hmmm...that's a tough one. you'd have to have your 18 USC 2557 paperwork in order if the model herself was naked, but I'm assuming she's not, she's just coming on to random internet nerds to get them to sign up. Assuming your model is just a sub-contractor and you are making them (nerds) somehow affirm they are over 18, likely No, but its a real gray area, couldn't really say without seeing the specific situation, sorry.
Mont-
Fantastic post and answers, very helpful.
I have 2 for you.
1) Have you read "How to be Invisible" by J.J. Luna and if so what are your thoughts surrounding a lot of his concepts outlined there? Namely 'Shelf' New Mexico LLC's formed/purchased/created through the process he outlines here: CanaryIslandsPress - New Mexico LLCs - along with his basic concept of using cash/gift cards and leaving less traces with things like domains, servers, etc.
- (note- this is in regards to PRIVACY only, not any nonsense of trying to skirt any state's taxes or more reckless fun and games).
2) How concerned do you think most people would or should be as US citizens with a US Corp/LLC marketing OUTSIDE the US (and blocking all US IP's from even visiting the page) via methods that post Dec 1 FTC revisions governing disclaimers/testimonials would be frowned upon? Is there any reason to think that the FTC gives two shits about what goes on in Canada/France/UK/AU/NZ/etc given of course that it's not something along the lines of your heroin/weapons example above.
Thank you
Fantastic post and answers, very helpful.
I have 2 for you.
1) Have you read "How to be Invisible" by J.J. Luna and if so what are your thoughts surrounding a lot of his concepts outlined there? Namely 'Shelf' New Mexico LLC's formed/purchased/created through the process he outlines here: CanaryIslandsPress - New Mexico LLCs - along with his basic concept of using cash/gift cards and leaving less traces with things like domains, servers, etc.
- (note- this is in regards to PRIVACY only, not any nonsense of trying to skirt any state's taxes or more reckless fun and games).
2) How concerned do you think most people would or should be as US citizens with a US Corp/LLC marketing OUTSIDE the US (and blocking all US IP's from even visiting the page) via methods that post Dec 1 FTC revisions governing disclaimers/testimonials would be frowned upon? Is there any reason to think that the FTC gives two shits about what goes on in Canada/France/UK/AU/NZ/etc given of course that it's not something along the lines of your heroin/weapons example above.
Thank you
Haven't read that one, but i've read similar ones and am familiar with shelf corporations. The unlocked SIMS/gift cards/international Paypal debit cards ideas get tossed around forums alot. Just remember, most of the peeps seeking this stuff have something to hide (tax, criminal, and divorce issues mainly) so the crowd it attracts to service them has alot of scamsters that know they can rip off most of these peeps and they'll never tell. Tread carefully, that is a tricky area. Ive known of people that have tried to go "off-grid" its not easy and takes alot of planning.
FTC stay outs of things going the other way outside US borders (US citizens doing funny stuff in other countries). UK and Australia have some similar rules/governing bodies in place though, so US citizens can still arise foreign gov't wrath, it cuts both ways.
Full of win thread for shiz. Thanks mont for offering this up.
I'd like to ask 2 questions as well if you don't mind.
1) There are several disclaimer/legal form kits floating around the IM world. You have any thoughts on any of these -- or more specifically, do you have any you would recommend?
2) along the lines of the testimonial issue, if you use financial "proofs" on an lp or presell, is that a no no based on the new "guidelines"? For example, "I made $20,000 last month with XYZ biz kit -- see below for real proof!"
As an aside, if you ever decide to do up a course for IM peeps or create your own legal form kit or whatever I got a list of subscribers that would eat that shit up. PM if you ever decide to do that.
Thanks again mont!
I'd like to ask 2 questions as well if you don't mind.
1) There are several disclaimer/legal form kits floating around the IM world. You have any thoughts on any of these -- or more specifically, do you have any you would recommend?
2) along the lines of the testimonial issue, if you use financial "proofs" on an lp or presell, is that a no no based on the new "guidelines"? For example, "I made $20,000 last month with XYZ biz kit -- see below for real proof!"
As an aside, if you ever decide to do up a course for IM peeps or create your own legal form kit or whatever I got a list of subscribers that would eat that shit up. PM if you ever decide to do that.
Thanks again mont!
Thanks, +rep.
My thinking was not at all 'off the grid' - rather simply more layers of the onion needed to be peeled by someone like Getty, or a class action chaser whining about rebills and trying to group in everyone under the sun, etc etc etc.
My thinking was not at all 'off the grid' - rather simply more layers of the onion needed to be peeled by someone like Getty, or a class action chaser whining about rebills and trying to group in everyone under the sun, etc etc etc.
1) One size fits all models are difficult to make work, so I generally don't recomment the DIY kits unless the situation is very basic. Its usually worth it to spend a few hundred bucks on a decent attorney to at least review it or get it done right. That being said, I've heard good things about LegalZoom for some simple form stuff, might be worth looking at.
2) Yes, latest FTC regs say when you provide an estimation of likely "profits" (called an "earnings claim") and its over a certain amount ($500 I think, have to look it up) you have to also include what # and % of recent clients actually achieved this. In the real world, I think this is hard for them to enforce, but that is another matter.
interesting. I still havent heard of anyone actually getting fined for the updated ftc guidelines.
Wow awesome thread I can't believe I was missing this before. Here is a question for ya I run into all the time with C&D letters.
At what point does a company have real grounds to take you to court after a C&D letter. I have gotten may a C&D from ambulance chaser web TM enforcement firms over the dumbest of crap. Id really like to know when I can tell them to F'off.
Examples:
I had a site shut down by victorias secret few years back about using their name in a logo for my site (it was a outlet/discout site) and not in the domain. At the same time when I killed that site (they had a legit claim) I got some domains with "VS" in the title. I asked their firm if that would be ok and they told me that any site with "VS" in it selling any type of underwear was misleading and misrepresenting victorias secret since they claimed to trademark VS. I still have some great domains where I was going to use VS as "Very Sexy" but I don't want them constantly dogging me on it. How can they claim owner ship of VS, and Very Sexy with regards to all women's underwear.
I have also received C&D from these same firms claiming that I could not use a TM name anywhere on my site, url, meta tags, in text bodies, images, etc. I got a C&D for having trademarkname.myothersite.com since they felt this was part of the domain name and was grounds for a C&D. I have also gotten a few for having TM names in my google description and meta tags from wp blogs that auto generate this stuff. They seem to keep getting broader and broader as time goes by, what rights do we have against this stuff?
Thanks.
At what point does a company have real grounds to take you to court after a C&D letter. I have gotten may a C&D from ambulance chaser web TM enforcement firms over the dumbest of crap. Id really like to know when I can tell them to F'off.
Examples:
I had a site shut down by victorias secret few years back about using their name in a logo for my site (it was a outlet/discout site) and not in the domain. At the same time when I killed that site (they had a legit claim) I got some domains with "VS" in the title. I asked their firm if that would be ok and they told me that any site with "VS" in it selling any type of underwear was misleading and misrepresenting victorias secret since they claimed to trademark VS. I still have some great domains where I was going to use VS as "Very Sexy" but I don't want them constantly dogging me on it. How can they claim owner ship of VS, and Very Sexy with regards to all women's underwear.
I have also received C&D from these same firms claiming that I could not use a TM name anywhere on my site, url, meta tags, in text bodies, images, etc. I got a C&D for having trademarkname.myothersite.com since they felt this was part of the domain name and was grounds for a C&D. I have also gotten a few for having TM names in my google description and meta tags from wp blogs that auto generate this stuff. They seem to keep getting broader and broader as time goes by, what rights do we have against this stuff?
Thanks.
Beernuts
That's a bit too specific for me to answer directly without feeling like I'm toeing the line, but, (very) generally speaking, C&D letters are typically bluffs. Big name companies with a brand to protect will churn those out all day to anyone remotely close to their names.
Rule of thumb, when you get the notice via certified mail or process service, its time to definitely pay attention. Prior to that, the majority (not all) are blowing hot air hoping you'll just go away. Having their trademarked name in your actual root domain name is usually a bad idea though. Every situation is unique though, best to ask your attorney if you have a specific letter you have received.
That's a bit too specific for me to answer directly without feeling like I'm toeing the line, but, (very) generally speaking, C&D letters are typically bluffs. Big name companies with a brand to protect will churn those out all day to anyone remotely close to their names.
Rule of thumb, when you get the notice via certified mail or process service, its time to definitely pay attention. Prior to that, the majority (not all) are blowing hot air hoping you'll just go away. Having their trademarked name in your actual root domain name is usually a bad idea though. Every situation is unique though, best to ask your attorney if you have a specific letter you have received.
I actually get a cert letter each time in the mail and a scan of it attached in the e-mail. I really did get a full-blown C&D for a TM name in a meta tag. I just can't find where the line is drawn for these things.
Thanks for trying anyway. +rep
Thanks for trying anyway. +rep
Mont - This is definitely something you should do. You've found a niche, and it's such a good niche that you can share it with us and we are just in awe. No way could any of us be competitive in your niche
Since you helped us, here's an idea to help you:
If you were to write a book, I'd like to see this:
"I live in state XX, who is a good lawyer who knows this stuff like yourself that can help me?"
Not only will this get you less follow-up questions, but you could even get the lawyers to work on referrals for you too (not sure if they do that in your industry)... and then you're making money on BOTH ends (i buy the book, get referred to your CA lawyer and you get a referral from them too!)
Knowing these lawyers in every major city might be tough, but maybe you know how to find them. But it's something that'd be great in the guide.
But now you gotta realize that if you're gonna start this project, you're going to get a fuckton of e-mails. At what point does an e-book purchase become unprofitable? Or will you just refuse to give support?
What you could do is provide support on some sort of fee basis, and then start hiring a ton of paralegals around the country to do the work for you in each state. Not sure if that's legal as you aren't bar'd there.
Also looks like there'd be way more than 10 questions. International and intra-state questions can make up 30 questions alone.
OR, better yet, "How do I find out if this Lawyer XYZ is really good at Internet Marketing? What questions do I ask to 'test' them?" <-- maybe you can answer this one right here.
These are all really good ideas, +rep. I've toyed with some variations, but at the end of day, I chose IM over my legal practice because it pays A LOT more, so I'm not in too big of a hurry to jump back into that grind for 60 hour weeks at a billable rate
If there is a way to scale up,sell it as an info product, or refer it out to local attorneys in each jurisdiction (our professional rules on fee-splitting are ridiculously complex) that's the angle that appeals to me. There are way too many Internet husslers out there doing stupid things that are costing them money that could be addressed with some Legal 101 info.
thanks for the post.
you can feel free to skip this question if you want:
would YOU run rebills after the updated FTC guidelines?
would YOU run rebills after the updated FTC guidelines?