They can do this in England because the citizens are unarmed!

[popeye]

Extremism isn't just for Muslims...



Yes these guys are idiots (bikers in my city fucked some of them up here while back) but they are not threatening to cut my head off for thier god. The extremist muslims are a real threat and Europe is headed for bad news real quick.

Freedom of speech does not allow fools to threaten my life.

 

[Kier]

Show me muslims who are against the above pictures.

Well every Muslim I know was against the message sent out on those placards. What about your friends who are Muslim? What did they think?

Those people were a minority, they do not represent the mainstream view of other Muslims and tarring them with that brush will do nothing except further perpetuate this situation: London Muslims Condemn Violence |Sky News|Home

 

[LazyHippy]

Yes these guys are idiots (bikers in my city fucked some of them up here while back) but they are not threatening to cut my head off for thier god. The extremist muslims are a real threat and Europe is headed for bad news real quick.

Freedom of speech does not allow fools to threaten my life.

Agreed they are idiots, but I think they should be ignored, not 'fucked up'...

Our governments have made the extremist Muslims into a threat by their actions abroad and are continuing to give the moderates more and more reasons to move towards the extremities of Islam.

Freedom of speech should allow them to say whatever the fuck they like, however it doesn't - our government has introduced legislation limiting freedom of speech (all in the name of fighting 'terror'). Nice one Tony - you won't be missed.

I really shouldn't be surprised but it does seem bizarre that people would rather shoot the extremists rather than deal with the factors that are creating them. Although it makes a lot of sense to keep killing them if you support the 'forever war', rather than wanting to actually stop terrorism.

 

[Kier]

Show me muslims who are against the above pictures.

Well, its anecdotal but all my Muslim friends are against the sentiments expressed. Are yours?

However a moment's research would show that in fact, most Muslims do not support these messages:

London Muslims Condemn Violence |Sky News|Home

This also has nothing to do with gun control. Its amazing how people can twist anything into an excuse to jump onto their favourite hobby horse!

 

[popeye]

Agreed they are idiots, but I think they should be ignored, not 'fucked up'...

Our governments have made the extremist Muslims into a threat by their actions abroad and are continuing to give the moderates more and more reasons to move towards the extremities of Islam.

Freedom of speech should allow them to say whatever the fuck they like, however it doesn't - our government has introduced legislation limiting freedom of speech (all in the name of fighting 'terror'). Nice one Tony - you won't be missed.

I really shouldn't be surprised but it does seem bizarre that people would rather shoot the extremists rather than deal with the factors that are creating them. Although it makes a lot of sense to keep killing them if you support the 'forever war', rather than wanting to actually stop terrorism.

I prefer to shoot them because they will not respond to reason. Short of converting to their "religion of peace" I don't believe their is anything the western world could do to pacify them. It has already been stated hundreds of times by the radicals...bow down to allah or die!

 

[emp]

Do any of you guys realize that with your weapon laws, those muslims would have weapons, too?

::emp::

 

[LazyHippy]

I prefer to shoot them because they will not respond to reason. Short of converting to their "religion of peace" I don't believe their is anything the western world could do to pacify them. It has already been stated hundreds of times by the radicals...bow down to allah or die!

Ok. Rightly or wrongly, they see other Muslims as brothers and sisters.

So we can start by not invading Muslim countries and creating civil war there for our own purposes.

We can deal with the Israel/Palestine situation from an unbiased viewpoint - that's the big one. After 50 years there's still thousands of people living in refugee camps in neighbouring countries. Thousands of Muslims seemingly being treated as second class citizens by the decadent west.

Now, I don't really agree with the "we share a religion so we are brothers" point of view. (We are all brothers regardless of religion.) However, that is how many Muslims see things.

A lot can be learnt from the 'troubles' in Northern Ireland over the last 30 years. By the UK treating certain communities unfairly kids were drawn towards the extremists such as the IRA. The more we militarised Ulster the more active the IRA were. The same is happening on a bigger scale now with Muslims. The solution in NI has been, much as many don't like it, to talk to the terrorists/freedom fighters and involve them in the political process.

I'm hoping Tony Blair realises this in his new job and deals with Hamas in the same way as he dealt with Gerry Adams and the IRA/Sin Fein. Only by sorting out the Israel/Palestine situation can we hope to reduce the influence of the extremists.

 

[LazyHippy]

If you want to practice shooting terrorists, try this game:

Newsgaming.com -- September 12th

 

[GeorgeB]

Allah Snackbar

Fuck... someone already registered it

 

[LazyHippy]

Lazy, how many of your individual rights are you willing to give up for the corporate good? Freedom of speech does not give you the right to incite a riot does it? Yell fire in a crowded theater? Tell lies about someone that damage someone and not expect to be sued? Which ones are you willing to give up and which ones are worth fighting for? I doubt that you are willing to fight for much of anything. Just my guess.

Religion's main job is to help set up rules of behavior towards one another so it does serve a purpose but when perverted it can do tremendous damage to societies. Societies have a right and duty to protect themselves from such damage.

Sorry, I didn't reply to this - missed it before.

I think in some ways we are coming from the same direction, being (kinda) liberal I'm all for individual rights, but I think everyone has those rights - including people we may disagree with, despise, or even consider a threat. I think they are all worth fighting for and over the last 6 years the rights of many more Muslims have been taken away from them by the west than vice versa.

I don't think we have the right to harm other people and any suggestions that these guys would be shot by bystanders with weapons is just wrong in my opinion.

Being from the UK I don't quite get the 'right to bare arms', it is just not a basic human right like say the right to clean drinking water, although certainly the right to defend yourself is. Even the US restricts ownership of some weaponry I believe. You cannot legally buy a nuclear weapon can you? Even assault rifles are generally restricted, aren't they? (Both arguably more useful if you did take on your own government.) There has to be limits for the safety of society, I just think those limits should be lower than you do. (I think the ban on flick-knives here is going too far though - they are just a lot easier to open than other pocket knives!)

 

[popeye]

If you want to practice shooting terrorists, try this game:

Newsgaming.com -- September 12th

Now wheres the game where you fly planes into the world tradecenter and kill thousands of innocent civillians? As John Rambo so stated "They Drew first blood".


Radical Islam needs to be exterminated from this face of this planet. Diplomacy will not make them happy. Nothing will make them happy untill we either bow down to thier false god or they have our head on a platter.

EDIT: I am not sure why but most Europeans don't recognize the threat radical Islam is to thier way of life. I do know that the Euros better wake up or someday it will be to late.

 

[LazyHippy]

Now wheres the game where you fly planes into the world tradecenter and kill thousands of innocent civillians? As John Rambo so stated "They Drew first blood".


Radical Islam needs to be exterminated from this face of this planet. Diplomacy will not make them happy. Nothing will make them happy untill we either bow down to thier false god or they have our head on a platter.

EDIT: I am not sure why but most Europeans don't recognize the threat radical Islam is to thier way of life. I do know that the Euros better wake up or someday it will be to late.

LOL - I'm sure it's out there somewhere, but won't quite work the same way really. Thousands? If we are playing the numbers game check out Iraq Body Count - At least 70000 dead so far in Iraq from this war of terror.

Your words worry me, "exterminated from this face of this planet" That sounds very similar to the views of the extremist Muslims at the top of this thread, just with a different enemy.

False God? Well, I agree with that one, but it's the same God that Jews and Christians (and other minor Abrahamic religions) worship.

If radical Islam is a major threat it is solely because our leaders have made it so. Their reasons are obvious - money, power and control.

Leaving aside conspiracy theories, do you really think that they went into Iraq without realising it would create further hatred of the west and therefore a much longer (potentially unending) war.. more of our taxes going to the arms companies, more of our rights being taken away... They aren't stupid.

I'm sure Dick Cheney has read 1984, but rather seeing as a nightmare he probably saw it as an inspiration.

We might play follow the leader for now. However, when the US has re-introduced the draft, I doubt Europe will join in.

 

[toolohen]

We've all heard of Islamic terms like 'Jihad' and 'Sharia' and 'Caliphate', but I've compiled a list of some lesser known terms.

This is the TRUE ISLAM:

Dhimmi: Humans of second class, referring to the 'People of the Book', i.e. Jews and Christians. They enjoy a provisional lodging right under Islamic dominance, are however subordinated in their civil liberties.

Jizyah (Jizhya): The name for the head-tax under Islamic rule extorted to the dhimmies. This must be handed over in obsequious way (including impacts on the necks).

Taqiyya (taqqiya): Falsehoods told to prevent the denigration of Islam, to protect oneself, or to promote the cause of Islam.

Muslimah: Woman.

I haven't added any opinions to these definitions. These are the base literal meanings of the terms (ie. at the dictionary level)

 

[LazyHippy]

You might've not added any comments but you have certainly been very selective in choosing which terms to translate.

 

[toolohen]

Yes, but why do these words exist?

They go to the heart of extremist (and even moderate) Muslim agenda/

 

[emp]

This is the TRUE ISLAM:

I will not even go into your obviously directioned approach to this, but "True Islam?" There are as many interpretations of Islam as there are of the Christian faith.

Open your eyes and see.

- Catholics in Spain, flogging themselves and torturing and killing animals for sport and entertainment.
- Creationists in the US - nuff said.
- Pro lifers bombing clinics.
- Mormons, traveling the world trying to convert people to the "true faith"
- Priests in the army, blessing weapons..

..etc, etc...

Religion is the cause for all this shit.
Not just Islam, not just christianity, Religion.

:repuke:
::emp::

 

[toolohen]

I will not even go into your obviously directioned approach to this, but "True Islam?" There are as many interpretations of Islam as there are of the Christian faith.

Open your eyes and see.

- Catholics in Spain, flogging themselves and torturing and killing animals for sport and entertainment.
- Creationists in the US - nuff said.
- Pro lifers bombing clinics.
- Mormons, traveling the world trying to convert people to the "true faith"
- Priests in the army, blessing weapons..

..etc, etc...

Religion is the cause for all this shit.
Not just Islam, not just christianity, Religion.

:repuke:
::emp::

Read the fucking definitions. No religious text of any other religion contains terms like that except Islam.

Yes, men of other religions have held slaves, have treated others as 2nd class citizens and have put a head tax on minorities, but this was more a function of the culture that existed in their societies and NOT a religious edict mandated by their religious text.

If you read the religious text of any religion in the world you will find it preaches a general message of 'treat other as you would wish to be treated' and 'follow the golden rule' and 'be good to thy neighbor' but NOT Islam.

The Koran itself (we're not talking about the culture here but the religious text itself) preaches of 'conquest by the sword' and 'bloodshed of non- believers'

That my friend, IS THE DIFFERENCE between Islam and ALL Other Religions.

 

[emp]

!!--- WARNING LONG --!!

I guess you are confusing "the Bible" with "the new Testament".
Whereas the new testament is all touchy feely, the old testament goes into killing heathens and razing cities (Jericho), etc..

Also, a lot of people think Church == Religion.

This is not true in Christianity, nor is it in Islam.

As we have outlived (almost all of us) the literal interpretation of the Bible, so have modern Islamic countries outlived living by every letter of the Q'ran.

What worries me is the extremists (on both sides here, lets face it) and the poor countries that follow a very conservative Islamic faith (Sharia law, etc..)

Some of these interpret the stories about their prophet's (Mohammed) life (the Sunna) as part of the Q'ran, whereas it really is not. This is where a lot of the crap comes from, for example female circumcision.
Basically, it says "Mohammed had his daughters circumcised" and they go ahead and say "That's the law"..

--------------------

So... what we are facing here, the underlying problem is that Islamic countries do not know a division between State and Church and as such, the faith == law.

The church state divide is a fundamental process in the birth of a modern state. And one of it's main pillars.
(Again, face it, we just had this happen not so long ago)

Modern islamic states are actually moving into that direction, but are still in the early stages of transformation (Turkey, for example).

Some western states are moving backwards (the US, for example and no, I am not trying to insult here).

In order to help us all, we would need to foster and propagate a modern government in those countries, not bomb civilians.

::emp::

 

[indicas]

the ignorance of some in this thread is great, especially of those who think the majority of Muslims are represented by those signs above.

original post is total shit. these people can't do this because the English have no weapons. you think you need a gun to silence these people? furthermore do you think that would solve anything? i don't, in fact i believe the opposite: kill those who speak out and you will embolden those who have not yet spoken out.

that said, peace is the answer.

 

[toolohen]

the ignorance of some in this thread is great, especially of those who think the majority of Muslims are represented by those signs above.

original post is total shit. these people can't do this because the English have no weapons. you think you need a gun to silence these people? furthermore do you think that would solve anything? i don't, in fact i believe the opposite: kill those who speak out and you will embolden those who have not yet spoken out.

that said, peace is the answer.

I always hear "the majority of Muslims are not represented by these extremists"

Yet you let these same extremists get away with being the most vocal and visible part of your community.

Your moderates need to step up and UNCONDITIONALLY CONDEMN suicide bombers, extremists, ALL acts of terrorism and violence in general.

To put it simply, the moderates in your community SUCK at getting their message heard and its clear the extremists in your community are WINNING the propaganda war.

Then is it any wonder people start associating all of Islam with these extremists and their fucked up ideology?