Sorry Born Agains.... Hawking says there is no heaven.

Fuck that, I am in no way grateful for religion. I hate them all equally, I think they crush creativity, innovation, free speech, and free thinking. Our world would be perfectly fine without religion.

I'm all for fleeing from oppressive regimes, but claiming that atheists fuck the world up and the religious do not is simply off base.

Rusky said:
Was that right after the decline of the Western Roman Empire.
But lets look at what atheist based governments this in the last 100 years. Why live in the dark ages, lets progress.
The atheist communist governments suppressed everything; Life, Art, Agriculture, Business, all kinds of progress. Thats why there's no Russian or Chinese dream. I know this because I lived it a little.
Sure glad to be here in the religious US of A. You live in the best government this world has ever seen, and its region based. Stop being so ungrateful. I've seen the other side, and its not that pretty.

ingodwetrust.jpg
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nickster said:
You are joking right?

Straight from Wikipedia page on Galileo:-

"Galileo's championing of Copernicanism was controversial within his lifetime, when a large majority of philosophers and astronomers still subscribed to the geocentric view that the Earth is at the centre of the universe. After 1610, when he began publicly supporting the heliocentric view, which placed the Sun at the centre of the universe, he met with bitter opposition from some philosophers and clerics, and two of the latter eventually denounced him to the Roman Inquisition early in 1615. In February 1616, although he had been cleared of any offence, the Catholic Church nevertheless condemned heliocentrism as "false and contrary to Scripture",[10] and Galileo was warned to abandon his support for it—which he promised to do. When he later defended his views in his most famous work, Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, published in 1632, he was tried by the Inquisition, found "vehemently suspect of heresy", forced to recant, and spent the rest of his life under house arrest."

You need to do some more reading about heresy and science my friend if you think that religion hasn't put up major roadblocks to advancement over all of human history.
Click to expand...

After the Pope died, he was succeed by a man who was an admirer of Galileo.
Galileo was a huge believer and didn't let dogmatic religion or politics. Get in the way of knowledge.
 
Rusky, why do you call China and Russia "Atheist Based Governments?" - Did they say that it's very unlikely that gods exist so we aren't going to give churches a tax exempt status?

That's exactly what Atheists would do if they were in charge of this government.
 
Rusky said:
Was that right after the decline of the Western Roman Empire.
But lets look at what atheist based governments this in the last 100 years. Why live in the dark ages, lets progress.
The atheist communist governments suppressed everything; Life, Art, Agriculture, Business, all kinds of progress. Thats why there's no Russian or Chinese dream. I know this because I lived it a little.
Sure glad to be here in the religious US of A. You live in the best government this world has ever seen, and its region based. Stop being so ungrateful. I've seen the other side, and its not that pretty.

ingodwetrust.jpg
Click to expand...

This is the argument that all anti-atheists bring up at one point or another. Do you not understand that communists, Hitler etc. did not do what they did BECAUSE they were atheists or in the name of atheism. It makes no sense to make that leap. It's like saying because you are Christian and so was a Pedophile priests that all Christians are therefor pedophiles. Please tell me what it is about atheism that would cause mass murder? Have you ever met or heard of an atheist that calls for murder in the name of atheism?

I don't want to get started about the rubbish you are spouting about your government and religion and it being the best country in the world etc. because quite frankly it is just rhetoric that is like white noise to me.


Rusky said:
After the Pope died, he was succeed by a man who was an admirer of Galileo.
Galileo was a huge believer and didn't let dogmatic religion or politics. Get in the way of knowledge.
Click to expand...

You are aware that the "Dialogue" was essentially banned until 1835, some 200 years after his death? The fact that he believed in god or not does not take away from the fact that he was persecuted for his advancements.

Also, do you think that if he did not actually believe in god he would EVER have said it? You know what would have happened to him. Same with almost all great thinkers throughout the ages. We will never know their true thoughts because they were censored by threat of persecution.
 
dchuk said:
Fuck that, I am in no way grateful for religion. I hate them all equally, I think they crush creativity, innovation, free speech, and free thinking. Our world would be perfectly fine without religion.

I'm all for fleeing from oppressive regimes, but claiming that atheists fuck the world up and the religious do not is simply off base.
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Each side had its dark ideas. Atheists just have a hard time excepting that. Plus they never point out the bright side of selfless people that live by the golden rule.

Whats wrong with;
" Love Your Neighbor as Yourself "
" Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."
" Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast The First Stone "

Personally I think anything beyond that is Dogma.
 
bet you do not realize your so much respected top believes in something else:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_PAqT2JZOw]YouTube - ‪Alex Jones - Secrets in Bohemian Grove‬‏[/ame]
 
Rusky said:
Each side had its dark ideas. Atheists just have a hard time excepting that. Plus they never point out the bright side of selfless people that live by the golden rule.

Whats wrong with;
" Love Your Neighbor as Yourself "
" Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."
" Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast The First Stone "

Personally I think anything beyond that is Dogma.
Click to expand...

Atheism does not have dark ideas. Yes there are bad atheists as there are bad people of all walks of life, but unlike religions atheists do not kill for their beliefs. Murder in the name of religion (as well as torture and maiming) has been carried out through the ages, murder in the name of atheism hasn't to the best of my knowledge.

And nothing is wrong with living by "the golden rule", except for the fact that no one does or ever has, it's against human nature.

" Love Your Neighbor as Yourself "
" Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."
" Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast The First Stone "

Nice ideas, but not followed by anyone of religion (or not) at any time in history. People of religion condemn all the time, and certainly throw stones, both literally and figuratively.
 
I never believed in an afterlife, I always thought it was the way masses felt good about dieing. I don't want to die, but I also understand that it's part of life and my time will go when it's suppose to.

I'm not afraid of death. If I were to die tomorrow, I can honestly say that I lived a good life.
 
nickster said:
You are aware that the "Dialogue" was essentially banned until 1835, some 200 years after his death? The fact that he believed in god or not does not take away from the fact that he was persecuted for his advancements.
Click to expand...

Okay fine heres more great religious minds.

Sir Francis Bacon - Bacon was a philosopher who is known for establishing the scientific method of inquiry based on experimentation and inductive reasoning.
Johannes Kepler - established the laws of planetary motion about the sun
Rene Descartes - has been called the father of modern philosophy
Isaac Newton - come you dont know; he was devoutly religious and saw numbers as involved in understanding God's plan
Robert Boyle - Boyle's Law
Michael Faraday - His work on electricity and magnetism not only revolutionized physics, but led to much of our lifestyles today
Gregor Mendel - Mendel was the first to lay the mathematical foundations of genetics, in what came to be called "Mendelianism".
Max Planck - best known for quantum theory, which revolutionized our understanding of the atomic and sub-atomic worlds
Some would argue Einstein.
And more current.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml0FqyFYfrU]YouTube - ‪Dr Francis Collins interview on CNN‬‏[/ame]
 
nickster said:
Atheism does not have dark ideas. Yes there are bad atheists as there are bad people of all walks of life, but unlike religions atheists do not kill for their beliefs. Murder in the name of religion (as well as torture and maiming) has been carried out through the ages, murder in the name of atheism hasn't to the best of my knowledge.

And nothing is wrong with living by "the golden rule", except for the fact that no one does or ever has, it's against human nature.

" Love Your Neighbor as Yourself "
" Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."
" Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast The First Stone "

Nice ideas, but not followed by anyone of religion (or not) at any time in history. People of religion condemn all the time, and certainly throw stones, both literally and figuratively.
Click to expand...

Not sure if you know this. But I grew up in the soviet union. That atheist government used to physically force Christians to covert and condemn God.
People were killed, sent to Siberian prisons, livelihood taken away, no promotion at work, no higher education opportunities. Just because you believed in God.
Im from Siberia by the way.
Its nice when your ass is warm, and you can consider yourself a special minded intellectual.
 
Rusky said:
Each side had its dark ideas. Atheists just have a hard time excepting that. Plus they never point out the bright side of selfless people that live by the golden rule.

Whats wrong with;
" Love Your Neighbor as Yourself "
" Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."
" Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast The First Stone "

Personally I think anything beyond that is Dogma.
Click to expand...

I think those are all great ideals. I also think you don't need to make up bullshit fairytales to explain them.

"Love your neighbor as yourself" means the exact same thing without having a wine creating, water walking, resurrecting messiah saying it.

Religion is a set of fairytales for adults.
 
Rusky said:
Okay fine heres more great religious minds.

Sir Francis Bacon - Bacon was a philosopher who is known for establishing the scientific method of inquiry based on experimentation and inductive reasoning.
Johannes Kepler - established the laws of planetary motion about the sun
Rene Descartes - has been called the father of modern philosophy
Isaac Newton - come you dont know; he was devoutly religious and saw numbers as involved in understanding God's plan
Robert Boyle - Boyle's Law
Michael Faraday - His work on electricity and magnetism not only revolutionized physics, but led to much of our lifestyles today
Gregor Mendel - Mendel was the first to lay the mathematical foundations of genetics, in what came to be called "Mendelianism".
Max Planck - best known for quantum theory, which revolutionized our understanding of the atomic and sub-atomic worlds
Some would argue Einstein.
And more current.
YouTube - ‪Dr Francis Collins interview on CNN‬‏
Click to expand...

Great one. Do you know how many atheist scientists I can name before the last century? Think about it.
 
^^^
How many? Please only major discoveries. Cause I can make my list even bigger.

Actually the point was religion in the brain doesn't stand in the way of knowledge. But I'm sure you missed that point. Agendas we all got em.



dchuk said:
I think those are all great ideals. I also think you don't need to make up bullshit fairytales to explain them.

"Love your neighbor as yourself" means the exact same thing without having a wine creating, water walking, resurrecting messiah saying it.

Religion is a set of fairytales for adults.
Click to expand...

Great; why so bitter then. It doesn't matter what happens in the end anyways, right. It just goes blank.
You wont step on my door step, and I wont step on yours.
Dont clump me with the religious nutcases, I wont clump you with nutcases of your kind.
 
Rusky said:
^^^
How many? Please only major discoveries. Cause I can make my list even bigger.

Actually the point was religion in the brain doesn't stand in the way of knowledge. But I'm sure you missed that point. Agendas we all got em.
Click to expand...

Sorry you didn't get my point. My answer is zero. Think about that.

No one is arguing "religion in the brain", the argument is whether religion itself stands and stood in the way of advancement.
 
nickster said:
Sorry you didn't get my point. My answer is zero. Think about that.

No one is arguing "religion in the brain", the argument is whether religion itself stands and stood in the way of advancement.
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Where not going anywhere here. I better stop and go do some money making activities.

Dont want to be like LukeP. I kid Lukep.

Peace.
 
Dear Fellow Atheists:

That is the Second time in one thread that someone has hinted that I come on too strong... But reviewing my posts, I can't help but see that I'm just being a good soldier for the cause...

Have I been too irrational to be effective here? Or are these Theists too afraid of the big guns and these cheap shots are their weapon of last resort?
 
Religious Conflicts

My favourite little story is the one about the church's reluctance to use lightning conductors because the church claimed lightning was something that Satan controlled. Half a town and 3000 dead people later, they kind of changed their minds. Fucking twats.
 
http://www.religioustolerance.org/past_mor.htm said:
Theologians believed that we see lightning before thunder because "sight is nobler than hearing."
Click to expand...

http://www.religioustolerance.org/past_mor.htm said:
The churches had always held that Satan, the "Prince of the Power of the Air", controlled all lightning and thunder.
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^^ WTF?
 
lukep said:
Dear Fellow Atheists:

That is the Second time in one thread that someone has hinted that I come on too strong... But reviewing my posts, I can't help but see that I'm just being a good soldier for the cause...

Have I been too irrational to be effective here? Or are these Theists too afraid of the big guns and these cheap shots are their weapon of last resort?
Click to expand...

I don't think that you have come on strong at all. Stand up for what you believe in dude (or don't as the case may be). The only thing stopping us from removing the scourge of religion off the face of this planet is that our voices may not be loud enough :)
 
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