WP Review Site Plugin - Free if you contribute to specs~!

[bb_wolfe]

Dan's post in the buy/sell/trade section really pissed me off. (http://www.wickedfire.com/sell-buy-trade/37335-turn-wordpress-into-powerful-review-site-engine.html)

For a lot of you, you've never known anything but WinXP and plenty of online business. When I started out way back when, you had a very different landscape when it came to providing solutions, especially software. Never in a million years could you survive telling the market what your software would provide or what the price point would be. Anyone who has worked with a Novell vendor knows exactly what I'm talking about. Ever heard of Lantastic? Nope, they follow(ed) Dan's philosophies.

While I'm sure his WP Review Plugin product will evolve, his attitude regarding price and features flat out sucks.

I'll put my money where my big fat mouth is: WF decides what they want in a WP plugin, I front the cost for development and for every member who contributes a functional part of the spec, you get a free copy for life.

Simply PM me what you would like to see in a review WP plugin. See Dan's software here for ideas, but know that we'll be copying his product in it's entirety, allowing for more agility, and making a supremely superior product.

And don't worry about a $200-400 price point, we're keeping this one in-line with PHPBay's $79 pricepoint.

So there it is, in 30 days, you'll have 2 products, one of which listens to you, the site operator, and one that doesn't!

 

[fonske]

You can't set your own price point?... Lol, as he himself has said, it's already sold over a dozen copies.. The price point is decided by the market, and the market is paying for it. He doesn't need to lower it.

Now, if you make your clone, and provided it's good, he will have to, but right now he is the sole person with a script like this and he can do as he pleases. Having a high price point will ofcourse attract competitors to make clones.

 

[trigatch4]

I think you're being extremely unfair.

Dan's product is very good. How many hours do you think it would take to create such a strong product? How much would it cost? Lots... his product offers a ton of value - you can't contest that.

He has already made some minor changes. Its obvious why he doesn't want to jump right in and start making huge changes that are thrown at him via WF...

1. Its NOT EASY... if it was, don't you think there would be a couple dozen review plugins out there already?
2. Before you go off and start making updates/upgrades, developers usually want a clear vision and TO-DO list so they can start knocking things off and making improvements to the entire product. Otherwise ideas start conflicint, this replace that but needs this and that, and all of a sudden you've got a patched together pile of shit that somehow does the job
3. Its his product and he can charge whatever the fuck he wants. Do you think Nike golf shirts are worth $70 each? No... but based on pure economics, supply and demand, they have learned that they make the most profit by selling to LESS people at a HIGHER price. And, when you incorporate support/forums... guess what a more affordable product means? More NEWBS who need MORE support. It's the high dollar customers who tend to be the LEAST of the hassles.

He JUST introduced the product and he ALREADY took $100 off the unlimited use license PLUS made a couple improvements. I don't see what you're complaining about.

And... its one thing to compain. Its another thing to completely conspire against him. Radio and I got free review copies of his product because we wanted to see if the product was half decent or if he was a piece of shit scam artist. We both concluded he was legit and that the product was on the brink of being an incredible tool. As is, it is already pretty darn useful.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[bb_wolfe]

You can't set your own price point?... Lol, as he himself has said, it's already sold over a dozen copies.. The price point is decided by the market, and the market is paying for it. He doesn't need to lower it.

Now, if you make your clone, and provided it's good, he will have to, but right now he is the sole person with a script like this and he can do as he pleases. Having a high price point will ofcourse attract competitors to make clones.

You miss my point. When was the last time you used a Lantastic or OS/2 box? Not that it matters in the long run.

 

[bb_wolfe]

I think you're being extremely unfair.

Dan's product is very good. How many hours do you think it would take to create such a strong product? How much would it cost? Lots... his product offers a ton of value - you can't contest that.

He has already made some minor changes. Its obvious why he doesn't want to jump right in and start making huge changes that are thrown at him via WF...

1. Its NOT EASY... if it was, don't you think there would be a couple dozen review plugins out there already?
2. Before you go off and start making updates/upgrades, developers usually want a clear vision and TO-DO list so they can start knocking things off and making improvements to the entire product. Otherwise ideas start conflicint, this replace that but needs this and that, and all of a sudden you've got a patched together pile of shit that somehow does the job
3. Its his product and he can charge whatever the fuck he wants. Do you think Nike golf shirts are worth $70 each? No... but based on pure economics, supply and demand, they have learned that they make the most profit by selling to LESS people at a HIGHER price. And, when you incorporate support/forums... guess what a more affordable product means? More NEWBS who need MORE support. It's the high dollar customers who tend to be the LEAST of the hassles.

He JUST introduced the product and he ALREADY took $100 off the unlimited use license PLUS made a couple improvements. I don't see what you're complaining about.

And... its one thing to compain. Its another thing to completely conspire against him. Radio and I got free review copies of his product because we wanted to see if the product was half decent or if he was a piece of shit scam artist. We both concluded he was legit and that the product was on the brink of being an incredible tool. As is, it is already pretty darn useful.

Just my 2 cents.

I'm sure the product is very useful. I'm sure he'll sell many copies. I wish him the best.

I on the other hand am going to penetrate the market and do my best to consume as much share as possible, just as I have always done!

 

[trigatch4]

By the way... the way you "spin" your idea just makes it sound like you are going to use the brains of WF members to copy Dan's idea so you can become the next Wade Wells from other people's sweat. At least Dan did the work himself.

 

[bb_wolfe]

By the way... the way you "spin" your idea just makes it sound like you are going to use the brains of WF members to copy Dan's idea so you can become the next Wade Wells from other people's sweat. At least Dan did the work himself.

Welcome to the American commercial marketplace. You don't seriously think each and every product you buy is original? Wordpress itself is an offshoot idea of another product. You call them "the brains", I call them "the consumer".

I can certainly appreciate you sticking up for him since he did go the extra mile and give you a free copy of his script. I do not think that masking the drawbacks of his product with a good review from a respected WF member such as yourself does anyone any good. While it is likely a work in progress, it's not a $300 product. I want you go look into Clip-share.com, Alstrasoft, and any number of other packages just to see what happens when a buggy/incomplete product is brought to market. TONS of people get ripped off.

Do you really think the Ford 500 was inspired by some engineer in Detroit?

 

[trigatch4]

Welcome to Branding 101. I'm sure people would rather buy from Dan - who created the original plugin - rather than some dollar store imitator trying to connect the pieces together with an Elmers glue stick.

Thanks... but I know plenty about the "American Consumer Marketplace" but your thread wreaks of UberCampery. You're basically begging for people to copy Dan's product for you so that you can profit. Take your brilliant concept, build the product, build the site, build the program, test it, build everything... and then come back to us when you have something to sell.. how about that?

 

[bb_wolfe]

Welcome to Branding 101. I'm sure people would rather buy from Dan - who created the original plugin - rather than some dollar store imitator trying to connect the pieces together with an Elmers glue stick.

Sort of like folks still want to buy custom IBuySpy portals, right?

Wake me up when you've taken Econ101. Your logic is irrelevant in a capitalist system. People will buy the best product for the least price. Period. Walmart much?

 

[bb_wolfe]

Thanks... but I know plenty about the "American Consumer Marketplace" but your thread wreaks of UberCampery. You're basically begging for people to copy Dan's product for you so that you can profit. Take your brilliant concept, build the product, build the site, build the program, test it, build everything... and then come back to us when you have something to sell.. how about that?

Yup, going to make a ton of cash off the freebies to WF members. Ya got me there skippy.

 

[abhorrent]

I was thinking about this the other day when I saw his post. An no I don't think it's all that "original" except maybe the template. There's a million plug-ins out there that turn keywords into links. I wonder how the author of the one he's distributing with his package feels about losing out on $67 a sale.

And how hard could it be to take something like wp-postratings and modify it to add multiple ratings per post and just use custom fields to place them or code them into the template. that's probably what he did.

I'm no php guru and it would take some time but I bet I could figure it out. Besides, if you go wp-postratings support forum, the author has already stated that, that is on his to-do list for the plug-in, and it will be free!

I don't know I'm just rambling. Bottom line is I don't think it would be that hard to create something almost identical to what he has from existing products with zero cost, other than time.

 

[bb_wolfe]

Trigatch, I'm sorry for getting into a pissing match with you today. I still think you're backwards but I respect your opinion. I've gotten a shit-ton of positive feedback already and have the background to easily crank a quality product out.

Lots of you guys have designers and developers. In addition, I have architects, DBAs, and testers. I'm supremely confident I can crank out a quality product, even one without elmer's glue.

 

[bb_wolfe]

I was thinking about this the other day when I saw his post. An no I don't think it's all that "original" except maybe the template. There's a million plug-ins out there that turn keywords into links. I wonder how the author of the one he's distributing with his package feels about losing out on $67 a sale.

And how hard could it be to take something like wp-postratings and modify it to add multiple ratings per post and just use custom fields to place them or code them into the template. that's probably what he did.

I'm no php guru and it would take some time but I bet I could figure it out. Besides, if you go wp-postratings support forum, the author has already stated that, that is on his to-do list for the plug-in, and it will be free!

I don't know I'm just rambling. Bottom line is I don't think it would be that hard to create something almost identical to what he has from existing products with zero cost, other than time.

Bingo.

I'm simply asking what features/functionality people want to see. There's nothing worse than seeing a minimalist script and have to shell out even more dough to have it customized for your specific need, even though 100,000 other guys have the same need.

 

[trigatch4]

I front the cost for development and for every member who contributes a functional part of the spec, you get a free copy for life.

That sounds like you plan on selling it to people who don't contribute... does it not? Is that not your plan? Otherwise why would you want to "penetrate the market" and "consume as much market share as possible" a la "Wal-Mart". Don't go all soft now and say you're doing it purely for the good of the community.

I appreciate the Econ 101 lesson but you'd have to sell 2.5 licenses at $79 each for every 1 license he sold at $199 to make the same amount of profit. And then you've got 2.5 times the customers to try and please and service.

Maybe I'm wrong and just cranky because its so hot/humid here... I don't know. But unless you're flipflopping and don't ever plan on selling anything, you're underestimating the importance of reputation, tact, brand equity, etc... if you re-read your first post I think you'll understand how you may have gotten off on the wrong foot.

Am I wrong here? Abhorrent makes a logical point about existing alternatives...

 

[trigatch4]

If you have those resources that's great... then it sounds like a great idea.

By opening up saying Dan really pissed you off and his attitude sucks and this and that and tearing down the competition to build yourself up... I just don't think its necessary. It would be one thing if Dan was a sleaze ball but it seems pretty obvious he isn't.

I agree with some of your points. I can see how we're both "right" in many ways. While WickedFire has a notoriously negative aura I just think taking the high road, asking for suggestions, building a better product and then showing why its better than competitors based on its merits would be better than shitting on Dan and his product to give your own efforts a kickstart.

I'm just one guy with 0 developers and 0 designers. Plus, I'm more of a marketing guy and can't program for dick. Your idea is one I would logically consider buying into (figuratively and literally) but why start off on such a negative note?

 

[bb_wolfe]

That sounds like you plan on selling it to people who don't contribute... does it not? Is that not your plan? Otherwise why would you want to "penetrate the market" and "consume as much market share as possible" a la "Wal-Mart". Don't go all soft now and say you're doing it purely for the good of the community.

I appreciate the Econ 101 lesson but you'd have to sell 2.5 licenses at $79 each for every 1 license he sold at $199 to make the same amount of profit. And then you've got 2.5 times the customers to try and please and service.

Maybe I'm wrong and just cranky because its so hot/humid here... I don't know. But unless you're flipflopping and don't ever plan on selling anything, you're underestimating the importance of reputation, tact, brand equity, etc... if you re-read your first post I think you'll understand how you may have gotten off on the wrong foot.

Am I wrong here? Abhorrent makes a logical point about existing alternatives...

I'm trying to be as nice as I'm capable, which isn't much.

The 2.5 times basis is ridiculous. TR-TC=P is the only standard that matters. In addition, economies of scale, refunds, continued development, all play a part in profits.

His revenue will be higher per sale, but I couldn't give two shits about revenue per sale at this point. This product will scale over TONS of industries, be ported to many languages, be upgraded periodically, etc. The only time a guy knows his actual profit is at year's end when he's cranking out the final numbers for the period.

I'm pretty green to AM, but I know that being up $50 in profit for the day at 10am can easily drop to a $400 loss by 11pm. Same with software. Let him do his thing, I'll do mine, and you're certainly welcome to beat my script to hell when the time comes, I promise I won't complain.


I get extremely competitive when I see a virginal niche, and sometimes that competitiveness comes across very poorly. I'll simply let my efforts do the talking from here on out and stop busting Dan's balls.

 

[Dan Grossman]

And how hard could it be to take something like wp-postratings and modify it to add multiple ratings per post and just use custom fields to place them or code them into the template. that's probably what he did.

WPRS was coded from scratch, uses its own database, it is not a modification of any plugin. Nor does it come with someone else's affiliate script, it's just the same features others charge $67 for, again written from scratch (WP Affiliate or something).

I don't mind competition... there have always been 3 or 4 other plugins that try to add ratings to WP. Problem is they all suck. They're rent-a-coder quality like you'll probably get, which means they don't use the WordPress APIs correctly, try to hack things intsead of using filters and hooks, making them harder to install, harder to debug, and likely to break when WordPress upgrades. And most of them were released once in 2006 or 2007 then never upgraded, while WP 2.x is way different than 1.x for plugins.

I have a bachelors degree in computer science, worked for Microsoft and DuPont as a software engineer for a while, in grad school now working on the masters in CS. In other words, I'm a real programmer, not some kid who hacked something together. For the customers this plugin has gotten already, I've written pages of code by e-mail helping them create custom sites with it, because I have worked with WP for years and have ripped it inside out enough to know how to make it do what I want in an upgrade-safe way.

 

[trigatch4]

To say this:

The 2.5 times basis is ridiculous. TR-TC=P is the only standard that matters.

and then make this comment:

I couldn't give two shits about revenue per sale at this point.

Kind of undermines the purpose of all your equations. How do you get Total Revenue? By multiplying Unit Price by Quanitity Sold... right? So you can't completely disregard price and say quantity is all that matters when its 50% of the revenue equation! There is a reason that both Apple and Wal-Mart are leaders of their industries and each has very different models.

Personally, I don't really give a shit whose product ends up doing better. I have no loyalty to either of you. For all I care I hope both of you keep adding features and improving the script while simultaneously dropping the price...

But Its election season... I'm just sick of the negative advertising. This is the best thing anyone has said throughout this entire thread... including me:

I'll simply let my efforts do the talking from here on out and stop busting Dan's balls.

And on that note I'm retiring from this thread. I really do wish the both of you the best of luck. No hard feelings BB Wolfe... I think we both understand the other's point and notice that we're both right. Perhaps I should have taken my own advice and played devil's advocate with a little more tact

 

[bb_wolfe]

Perhaps I should have taken my own advice and played devil's advocate with a little more tact

I'm the last one you need to worry about tact with, just look at my 600+ posts!

I can be a SOB sometimes, I'm sorry this thread got as heated. Just remind me I owe you a few rounds at ASW next year as an apology for me being such a prick.

 

[trigatch4]

I would respond but I have retired from this thread and refuse to pull a Brett Favre.