Using Ultra Longtail KWs For PPC
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so how do you differentiate suuuuper long tail and normal long tail?
I know i have bid on long tail keywords that are 5-6+ words that convert much higher than their related 2-3 word counter parts. I even have some keywords in the past that have converted well that were 10 words long.
Just because it didn't work for you, doesnt mean it doesnt work. :rasta:
That's if he's using broad match, if he's using exact match it should work, shouldn't it?
Well that seems like a loaded statement. I mean I'm a big fan of long tail keywords, so I'm not suggesting that your long tails don't convert better -- heaven knows mine sure do.
But it also takes a lot longer to build up statistically relevant data for these keywords because, generally, they take longer than short-tails to generate a significant number of impressions and clicks. Your super long tails could seem to be converting great, or lousy, based on an initial 100 impressions.
But it also takes a lot longer to build up statistically relevant data for these keywords because, generally, they take longer than short-tails to generate a significant number of impressions and clicks. Your super long tails could seem to be converting great, or lousy, based on an initial 100 impressions.
It is good to use long tails but i prefer to think out of the box. With a competitive niche the big advertisers are going to broad match some terms so instead of going after long tail change the words. The example of dog ass was given. Instead of using dog ass or dog ass in <city> use bulldog ass or mans best friend ass that way your competitors that are broad matching dog ass will not drive up the cpc.
Ok. I may be wrong here, but this is my understanding.
You want to go more for the suffix and prefix to the words. Phrase matching those returns all the longtails.
Like if you have [dogs ass] and [ass of the dog], it doesn't matter what the fuck someone appends onto them.
Just because you're bidding on "dogs ass in waterford", or [ass of the dog and cheese] doesn't mean it matters at all, since it still contains dogs ass. At least most of the time.
I just tested it, some odd combinations didn't return ads for stuff I know I've phrase matched, but most seemed to. Like I bid on product_name w/ a phrase match, and sure enough product_name cheese and fellatio returned my ad. Hence the long tail there is...worthless.
I'd concentrate more on words before and after your real desired keyword, rather than expanding it out too far.
You want to go more for the suffix and prefix to the words. Phrase matching those returns all the longtails.
Like if you have [dogs ass] and [ass of the dog], it doesn't matter what the fuck someone appends onto them.
Just because you're bidding on "dogs ass in waterford", or [ass of the dog and cheese] doesn't mean it matters at all, since it still contains dogs ass. At least most of the time.
I just tested it, some odd combinations didn't return ads for stuff I know I've phrase matched, but most seemed to. Like I bid on product_name w/ a phrase match, and sure enough product_name cheese and fellatio returned my ad. Hence the long tail there is...worthless.
I'd concentrate more on words before and after your real desired keyword, rather than expanding it out too far.
Dude I'm all about the long tails... Like I have this one that converts like SICKNESS, it's 10 words long and I got about 2 impressions in all of 2007.
Think about it like this though. If you could track all of the clicks you got from a broad match keyword down to the exact query, would this not be beneficial to you?
ex. (used small numbers for simplicity, not enough for accurate data)
Situation 1.
Broad match keyword "dogass" results in 10 clicks and 1 conversion.
Situation 2.
The broad match exact queries were (1)"natural dogass in california" (2)"huge dogass in california" and (3)"prescription dogass in california".
(1) Got 3 clicks and no conversions
(2) Got 3 clicks and one conversion
(3) Got 4 clicks and no conversions.
See how this "tighter" tracking can help you get a better picture of what queries are actually converting.
Broad match can be great with increasing volume, but you should really track keywords on an exact match level whenever possible (imo).
this is sort of true but in reality is a few clicks enough to judge if that keyword is ever going to convert again?
(sorry, but i just found out about lol cats on icanhascheezburger.com, i know, i'm a little behind, but i gotta start catching up!)
I'm a fan of negative match. If I can get a great quality score for a fairly short tail term "dog ass", I'll bid on that. I'll get an assload of traffic, then go back in and see what shit people searched for that included dog ass.
If I was selling dog ass and cheese but certainly no dog ass with cheese and fellatio, I'd just put -fellatio to my keywords. Eventually I'll have a pretty good list of negative keywords that don't convert, yet still have good volume and not have to research elevendy billion keywords using the latest great keyword tool for the low low price of $800 / mo.
...Never thought I'd turn down fellatio...
If I was selling dog ass and cheese but certainly no dog ass with cheese and fellatio, I'd just put -fellatio to my keywords. Eventually I'll have a pretty good list of negative keywords that don't convert, yet still have good volume and not have to research elevendy billion keywords using the latest great keyword tool for the low low price of $800 / mo.
...Never thought I'd turn down fellatio...
Long Tail is not a great strategy unless you just want scraps. This idea worked until about 18 months ago. It still works on a limited basis for SEO, but even that is a tough game to play anymore unless you are totally automated and really good at that piece...
For PPC, In any commercial category the major advertisers broad match bids are going to spank your exact match long tail bids. Especially since Google can predict how those ads will react since they have some track record.
Google is not going to show your $.05 bid that has 3 impressions a year instead of a $3.00 bid and 30,000 impressions a day. Their algorithms are far beyond the point they were when the whole long tail principle came about.
Great Book, but it is dated and almost obsolete when talking about PPC.
Not saying you wont get 2 impressions and 2 clicks and 2 sales on a few keywords, but in aggregate your 10,000 keywords will probably never gain enough traction to pay you for your time in researching the niche, setting up the campaigns, creating a landing page etc.
I challenge you to find me a super-affiliate who is primarily earning from the long tail. Anyone worth there beans is winning in the head. Sure they pick up the tail, but it is not that lucrative...
Pulled some numbers to illustrate - in my main google account - top 10% of adgroups by click volume have 85% of clicks and 85% of profit. Bottom half of all adgroups has 1/2 of a percent of click volume and 3/4 of a percent of total profit.
So yes they are more efficient, and some of you might kill for 75 basis points of our profit, but it is only worth the effort because it requires zero management time. We would not even contemplate doing it for just that and without the optimization we get from the volume in the head the tail would probably be a loser for us...
For PPC, In any commercial category the major advertisers broad match bids are going to spank your exact match long tail bids. Especially since Google can predict how those ads will react since they have some track record.
Google is not going to show your $.05 bid that has 3 impressions a year instead of a $3.00 bid and 30,000 impressions a day. Their algorithms are far beyond the point they were when the whole long tail principle came about.
Great Book, but it is dated and almost obsolete when talking about PPC.
Not saying you wont get 2 impressions and 2 clicks and 2 sales on a few keywords, but in aggregate your 10,000 keywords will probably never gain enough traction to pay you for your time in researching the niche, setting up the campaigns, creating a landing page etc.
I challenge you to find me a super-affiliate who is primarily earning from the long tail. Anyone worth there beans is winning in the head. Sure they pick up the tail, but it is not that lucrative...
Pulled some numbers to illustrate - in my main google account - top 10% of adgroups by click volume have 85% of clicks and 85% of profit. Bottom half of all adgroups has 1/2 of a percent of click volume and 3/4 of a percent of total profit.
So yes they are more efficient, and some of you might kill for 75 basis points of our profit, but it is only worth the effort because it requires zero management time. We would not even contemplate doing it for just that and without the optimization we get from the volume in the head the tail would probably be a loser for us...
so what you're saying is that long tails aren't as easy to compete with anymore since broad matching bids by corporations can easily overpower them. if thats the case how would someone even approach ppc search then? i'm not questioning you but more confused now lol
also what constitutes long tail in this case?
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