The Illogic of Atheism? (if you like math and logic - no bible quotes pls)

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xmcp123 said:
I'm agnostic, but will point out that in the absence of knowledge saying *poof* the all powerful omnipotent dude did it is not the peak of rational thought
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All I am stating is that there are too many unanswered questions to allow me to accept at this point that we are no different than the house plant sitting near my desk.

Religeous people rely on faith which cannot be proven by science. Atheist rely on science that is inadequte. Both are flawed and both groups need to keep an open mind.
 


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emp said:
Again, the logic breaks down at number 2.

We do know of a natural process that creates coded information, it is called evolution.

Even if you argue against "macro-evolution" (as ID followers often do), we can proove this with "micro-evolution", which even creationists agree exists (like one strain of bacteria evolving an immunity against certain medications)

Obviously, coded genetic information is obtained, stored, and retrieved again.

So, even without going against anything creationists say, this logic fails.

In the end, we could argue:

1) DNA is not merely a molecule with a pattern; it is a code, a language, and an information storage mechanism.
2) Not all codes are created by a conscious mind; there is a natural process known to science that creates coded information.
3) Therefore DNA does not have to be designed by a conscious mind.

Regards,
::emp::
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I really didn't want to get in, but Its a fun topic so I will.

Micro Evolution Happens. (we see it in plant breeding, dog breeding, and on and on)
But there's no signs of new traits. 1000s of new dog breeds and plan breeding has been utilized for thousands of year now. No new traits or species.

As for Macro Evolution. Lets say a lizard forms a wind. It would be a bad leg before it became a good wing. Chances of survival are slim. Thats like me trying to win the 100 meter race at the Olympics with a broken foot. Not in a billion years.
 
Rusky said:
I really didn't want to get in, but Its a fun topic so I will.

Micro Evolution Happens. (we see it in plant breeding, dog breeding, and on and on)
But there's no signs of new traits. 1000s of new dog breeds and plan breeding has been utilized for thousands of year now. No new traits or species.

As for Macro Evolution. Lets say a lizard forms a wind. It would be a bad leg before it became a good wing. Chances of survival are slim. Thats like me trying to win the 100 meter race at the Olympics with a broken foot. Not in a billion years.
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...it happens slowly, evolution in real life is not like evolution in pokemon.
I'd like to respond, but I don't know what you mean by "lizard forms a wind"
 
sorry wing.

"...it happens slowly, evolution in real life is not like evolution in pokemon."
"Which is exactly why macro evolution takes so long. "

If thats what you want to believe in go ahead.
 
here's a question.. if "man must have a creator which is god", who is gods creator?
 
Rusky said:
sorry wing.

"...it happens slowly, evolution in real life is not like evolution in pokemon."
"Which is exactly why macro evolution takes so long. "

If thats what you want to believe in go ahead.
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So you're saying evolution does happen just like in pokemon? Your GED classes have failed you.
 
Rusky I can 100% prove macro evolution to you.

Are you ready?



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Ok do you notice anything similar between all of these animals?


1) 4 appendages
2) 2 eyes
3)1 mouth
4) all eat through their mouths shit out their ass and piss.
5)claws of some kind.

(I'm sure we can find more)

In order to survive on this earth natural selection deems these qualities to be very important to our survival and replication.

Now before you start saying, "Yea well where's the link between us and humans" It's right in front of you. There are no "half man half ape" because these are two "different species". And once there is a "different species" it will not become an already know species because evolution is always progressing.

Humans, apes, and all animals have a common ancestor way back before the dinosaurs existed. I'm talking millions of years before the dinosaurs.

Evolution on a massive scale take millions and millions of years. You will not notice a big difference from the human today and the humans in 5000 years, but their will be subtle differences.

Here's an example:

Why are people from Africa black, people from Europe and Scandinavian countries white, why are Mexicans brown? Why do Asians have slanted eyes?
This is Evofuckinlution happening right in front of us.

Natural selection deemed these qualities that different races or "subspecies" to be possess because the different qualities make it easier for survival in each of these different "subspecies" environments.

Here's how evolution happens

Basically when a small tribe of species A gets separated from the "group" over time (millions of years) they will develop certain traits that nature deems worry of survival. This is why there are different "races" of humans and if each of these races had all been left alone long enough, the would ultimately have become an entirely different species from the original "group"

That's why there are monkey and humans. A loooooooong time ago our ancestors probably the same species (although not in the same form we are now) eventually a small group separated and started developing other traits on their own, while the "group" was also developing their own and now we have 2 different species the ape and the man. (This is a very simplified illustration)


Look we didn't come from mice, monkeys, giraffes, but we all have a COMMON ancestor millions and billions of years ago. We are all somehow related in the very distant past. Which is why we all "resemble" each other to a certain extent, because in our environment "world" there are some basic traits in all animals that help us (collectively) survive here. (Those traits I mentioned at the top)

And if you need any more help understanding here is a great clip.

YouTube - Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Creationism (1/3)
 
Rusky said:
I've got one for you too.

If no supernatural universal Designer exists, how did life(or dna code) originate?
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Like I said before, we don't know. But using god as a blanket answer is foolish as explained in my post below.

The problem with god is he can't be verified by the scientific method which throws out any scientific argument for god.
And god is just that "Super Natural" meaning he doesn't exist in the natural world.

Watch that video I posted. It will help you understand.

Trigger said:
In reference to your question, we don't know.

We have theories, and science is getting closer to finding out our history everyday, but to say that "god" did it is not intelligent and is the answer people who don't think for themselves will chose because it's easier.

People don't like "not knowing shit" so when they have a blanket answers to cover an incomprehensible question they take it, just like the people throughout history who used different "gods" to explain things the didn't understand or couldn't comprehend.

For example in ancient Greece many people believed the "god" Apollo made the sun rise everyday. If we were both living in that time period, I'm sure we could be having the exact same argument as to why the sun really rises in the morning. You would probably ask me to prove it wasn't Apollo and if I lived back then I couldn't, but today with our current technology and advances in science we can prove that Apollo does not make the sun rise, and we can prove what does. The same thing will happen in 2000 years or so with this whole "Hey Bill, where do you think we come?" "Well I don't know Jerry it must have been 'insert diety here'."

The problem with saying "God" did it, is that it leaves no room for questioning. When you say Apollo did it, or "god" did it you are taking out the most important thing in why we are so advanced today as a society today, and that is questioning shit and testing it until your theories are correct. That's what makes science so awesome is that it can be wrong, just like in Aff Marketing. The more you fail the closer you are to success. The more you test out a theory, the more likely you are to find an answer, and the problem with "god" is that he leaves no room to testing. (And he didn't leave any scientific evidence for his existence)
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I'm not sure how you proved macro evolution by all that. I did read it, but it just hypothesis. If you have a strong solid point please I'll be glad to discuss it.

We can brake it all down just by looking at genetics. You're looking at it, like Darwin did. Simple.
 
No one can prove macro evolution, that's why it is just a theory. Just like the theory of gravity, it is open to re-writing when new evidence comes into play. Most of everything in the scientific world is theory, there are very few true facts.

That being said, there is tons more research to back the theory of evolution compared to any research proving the existence of a "supernatural universal Designer"
 
Rusky said:
I'm not sure how you proved macro evolution by all that. I did read it, but it just hypothesis. If you have a strong solid point please I'll be glad to discuss it.

We can brake it all down just by looking at genetics. You're looking at it, like Darwin did. Simple.
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I gave you strong solid evidence of evolution

Where is your strong solid evidence for "intelligent design"... oh wait


*Edit
Rusky said:
brake
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Your intelligence factor is showing.
 
Rusky said:
Well lets start with Louie Pasture. (see his name on your milk or oj)(Pasteurized)
Louis Pasteur - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Louis demonstrated that the fermentation process is caused by the growth of microorganisms, and that the growth of microorganisms in nutrient broths is not due to spontaneous generation[5]but rather to biogenesis

So life or code had to come from somewhere, right.
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That's some pretty shitastic logic.

By your measure, simply saying that because human females have babies evolution can't exist.

FAIL.
 
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