Supreme court strikes down Chicago gun ban, expands gun rights
- Thread starter papajohn56
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Shady and I went toe to toe about this exact argument about a year and a half a go. I understand a lot of his, and your (collective), points but I still totally disagree with almost all of them.
It all goes back to my argument that the people needing the hand outs should not be in charge of electing officials who cater to their self serving interests that cripple a country financially. If America was run by those who pay 80% of the taxes (my criteria would accomplish this) we'd have a fraction of the problems that are currently plaguing our once great society.
The best example I can give for my point of view is the birth of this great country. ALL of the best American presidents, and the greatest advancements (save computers) in civilization as a whole, came at a time when land ownership was a requirement for voting in elections. How anyone can argue against this point is beyond me?
Today, Thomas Jefferson would literally lead a revolution himself if he saw what whining liberal pussies, snot nosed children and self serving ethical groups were doing to tear down country.
Take shots at me when you think I'm wrong, I'm a big boy and can handle my own. But just because most people agree that kids and homeless people are qualified enough to elect a president who is going to cater to leeches and free loaders doesn't make the majority right. Even full fledged democracies should have high voting standards in place or that country's power will be short lived.
cardine: you might be the exception to the rule, but that doesn't change my viewpoint ... 99% of your piers have no business wiping their own asses, much less having a say in which direction this country is headed.
I agree with Erect for the most part.
You all need to research the underlying causes of the French revolution, they line up pretty close to what we have now.
A underclass voting for whoever gives them the biggest handout.
So then we shouldn't allow African Americans to vote as well right? Because if I were to make the same sweeping generalizations that you're making, black people are uneducated, poor, and don't understand how the government works. Therefore restricting black people from voting will remove a huge percentage of the uninformed voting population and will help steer our country in the right track. It's statistically true as well, black people as a whole are poorer, have less education, and will vote similarly (in fact more extremely) towards people giving handouts than young people will. Now sure there might be the occasional smart and educated black person, but the vast majority of them aren't.
How is that paragraph above any different from what you're proposing?
How is that paragraph above any different from what you're proposing?
Because I didn't say any of it.
Black/white/yellow/green men can pay taxes for 5 years .. they can own land ... they can have IQ's above room temperature. Same goes to any race, gender or sexual orientation.
18 year olds can't have served their dues paying my minimum requirement of taxes, and very few own land (unless it's been willed to them), which means they shouldn't get a say as to what goes on in DC.
I can't be clearer on what I'm saying here and you're trying to manipulate because you're pussy hurt. Get over it, I've got an opinion and it's more correct than saying "You can breathe? Here fill out this ballot." ... perhaps you should listen to someone with experience because someday soon, you too will be sick of picking up the tab for all the people who don't contribute.
Great example: Healthcare. Young people who have lost their parents insurance coverage, and poor people who can't qualify for a home loan, have voted someone in office who is using MY MONEY to take care of people's insurance so they can go to the hospital every time they sprain their ankle or get a headache.
Health insurance IS NOT a basic right that every human DESERVES. If the voting laws were more strict we wouldn't be walking into this financial clusterfuck that we'll be dealing with for decades to come.
What your're really saying is that 18 year olds shouldn't be allowed to vote because they disagree with the political beliefs I have. Which is hardly a good reason to make it illegal for an entire group of people from voting.
What it sounds like to me is that you're bitter that Obama got elected and you're trying to get rid of a voting block that supported Obama. Of course since most 18 year olds disagree with you, they therefore must be stupid, naive, and just don't get it. Because I guess anybody who disagrees with you is stupid, naive, and just doesn't get it.
And seriously shut up with your elitist attitude. Because you're older and 'more experienced than me' doesn't mean you're opinion is anymore correct than mine. Trust me, I'm paying enough in taxes; that 'someday' has already come and gone.
And btw I'm a Libertarian, and have been for a long long time. So make my day and continue with your sweeping generalizations about how all 18 year olds support Obama because they have no fucking clue what they're talking about.
and again
You don't listen or comprehend and you certainly can't argue a point without flat out spinning words to fit your opinion of me. Come back when you can debate the issues instead of crying about what you think was said.
Sorry dude, you picked the wrong name to mention.
"One-half of our brethren who fight and pay taxes are excluded, like Helots, from the rights of representation, as if society were instituted for the soil, and not for the men inhabiting it." --Thomas Jefferson
"Every male citizen of the commonwealth liable to taxes or to militia duty in any county, shall have a right to vote for representatives for that county to the legislature." --Thomas Jefferson
"The fool has as great a right to express his opinion by vote as the wise, because he is equally free, and equally master of himself." --Thomas Jefferson
details and more at Jefferson on Politics & Government: Elective Government
And if we are talking about who elects who into office, you might want to look at the exit poll thing I linked to. About 50% of the public has attended at least some college, yet they make up 76% of voters. Nearly 1 in 5 voters has a post graduate degree and Obama easily won with them.
No erect, you just keep on trying to avoid answering the main point I've been making.
You're entire concept is based of one huge generalization. You say you never said anything about blacks not being able to vote. However, how is it any different? You're saying that all young people aren't experienced enough. You're saying that all young people will always vote to put more of your money into paying for their college tuition. How is that any different from me saying that all blacks are poor and uneducated?
The world isn't black and white like that. There are 18 year olds who have very valid opinions, and there are 35 year old, property owning, tax paying, high IQ people who have very stupid opinions. Making this huge broad sweeping statement seems not that different from the literacy tests and poll taxes that kept an entire race from voting. Because I'm sure a Libertarian like you would definitely trust government officials to administer your IQ tests equally and fairly without any sort of bias?
And on top of that you seriously expect me to pay the taxes I'm paying without having any say in how the government spends it?
You're entire concept is based of one huge generalization. You say you never said anything about blacks not being able to vote. However, how is it any different? You're saying that all young people aren't experienced enough. You're saying that all young people will always vote to put more of your money into paying for their college tuition. How is that any different from me saying that all blacks are poor and uneducated?
The world isn't black and white like that. There are 18 year olds who have very valid opinions, and there are 35 year old, property owning, tax paying, high IQ people who have very stupid opinions. Making this huge broad sweeping statement seems not that different from the literacy tests and poll taxes that kept an entire race from voting. Because I'm sure a Libertarian like you would definitely trust government officials to administer your IQ tests equally and fairly without any sort of bias?
So I'm getting screwed over because the majority of the people in my voting block are stupid? That's why you don't make sweeping generalizations, because you're going to infringe on the freedom of people who don't deserve their freedoms to be infringed on. If you really believe what you're saying, its ok for some deserving people not to be free because their peers are idiots?
And on top of that you seriously expect me to pay the taxes I'm paying without having any say in how the government spends it?
Amazing shoot! Where do I sign up for the next one!!
Hi cap polymer 45s are nice, they have their place. But to say its ">" a 1911 is absurdAlso, I failed to mention
FNP>1911
15>7
. Look what almost all of the best pistol shooters use in the highest level of competition..1911's. Todd Jarrett for one. 1911's when properly smithed are the finest, more inherently accurate handguns around. Doesn't mean I don't love all guns, I would love to have a Sig x-5, those things are just silly accurate as well. The difference is the build quality and trigger pull on a finely tuned custom 1911 is second to none. I have and love my tactical tupperware but I don't lust for it like a nice Yost built 1911.
Thank you for pointing out my error, this is why I love WF it's the small details that don't go unchecked by a knowledgeable crowd. +rep
cardine: this is how you make a counter argument (although I could have substituted almost any other name of our forefathers and my statement would have been accurate). Saying "what you really mean is ..." and making BS up doesn't work for a debate.
That's not the point (and I'm not saying you're making racial generalizations). You're making generalizations based on something somebody has no control over. I have no control over my age, just like somebody who is black has no control over the fact that they are black! I'm not saying you're making generalizations based on race. I'm saying your generalizations are no different than if somebody were to make generalizations based on race.
Is it my fault I'm 18 right now? Can I change my age? Then why am I being judged because of that?
The problem is not your age in my books, rather your ability to pay x number of years worth of taxes, own land & have intelligence. Had you started working @ 13 (possible) you could meet my criteria. Stop getting hung up on this arbitrary line in the sand, it's about maturity, responsibility & brain cells.
And for the record, if someone qualifies for the min standards and votes against who I feel is the best candidate (lesser of evil really), that's perfectly fine. At least they're adult enough to make a mistake. I don't want a bunch of erect clones walking around the world (although the ladies would love it).
Basic tests to earn the right to vote will never happen because of the way they have been used in the past. It could be the most appropriate test to ever exist, but because of what whites did many years ago to blacks with literacy tests that's all they would be compared to. Will most likely never happen. It would be one big clusterfuck of an argument that goes nowhere.
I'm not too concerned about guns. I think if a person is reasonable and logical about the situation, they will admit that firearms have a limited number of days left. Less lethal devices have their limitations as they exist today, sure. But, I think by the end of this century they will be a hell of a lot better and preferable to any firearm. There will come a day when the only place you find a firearm is in a museum or someone's personal collection. It won't infringe on the 2nd amendment because no one would want them anyways.
I'm not too concerned about guns. I think if a person is reasonable and logical about the situation, they will admit that firearms have a limited number of days left. Less lethal devices have their limitations as they exist today, sure. But, I think by the end of this century they will be a hell of a lot better and preferable to any firearm. There will come a day when the only place you find a firearm is in a museum or someone's personal collection. It won't infringe on the 2nd amendment because no one would want them anyways.
LOL GTFO
Like people will just evolve and stop killing each other. What a dumb fucking comment. :action-smiley-052:
Amazing shoot! Where do I sign up for the next one!!
Hi cap polymer 45s are nice, they have their place. But to say its ">" a 1911 is absurd
I've got 15 rounds of 45 vs 1911 with 8 , the trigger pull on this is pretty good , considering the last pistol I had was a 1911 with a custom job.
Why'd I switch from a 1911 to a FNP? Talk to any 1911 owner and ask if their 1911 will use ANY type of ammo (including aggressive hollowpoints) and they'll start to sweat. 1911s are great, but without expensive tuning , they don't like most hollowpoints. Sure, IPSC type shoots are fun and all, but all the big shooters are using custom loaded ball ammo, not defensive stuff. So, considering I carry this pistol, I want the meanest, highest performing ammo out there, and in this case it just wouldn't work too well in a 1911.