Sorry Born Agains.... Hawking says there is no heaven.

It's so sad this is news to anyone in 2011. Can't believe we live in a time where people still believe in God/an afterlife. :/ pretty amazing shit

The discussion section is crawling with fundamentalist drones. They love articles like this because it gives them an opportunity to quote bible scripture and threaten non-believers with everlasting torment.

I'm sure Hawking knows he won't change many people's mind but has hope for those sitting on the fence. More than anything this is a fantastic way to get page views and sell books.
 


A man went to a barber shop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed.
As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation.
They talked about so many things and various subjects.
When they eventually touched on the subject of... God, the barber said:
'I don't believe that God exists.'
'Why do you say that?' asked the customer .
'Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn't exist.
Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people? Would there be abandoned children?
If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain.
I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things.'
The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument.
The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop.
Just after he left the barber shop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard.
He looked dirty and unkempt. The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber :
'You know what? Barbers do not exist.'
'How can you say that?' asked the surprised barber. 'I am here, and I am a barber. And I just worked on you!'
'No!' the customer exclaimed. 'Barbers don't exist because if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside.'
'Ah, but barbers DO exist! That's what happens when people do not come to me.'
'Exactly!' affirmed the customer . 'That's the point! God, too, DOES exist! That's what happens when people do not go to Him and don't look to Him for help.
That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world.'

spot on
 
We are carbon. When we die, the elements of our body return to the Earth, which will die one day as well, returning it's components back to the universe which created it. It's all cyclical. Sprits, souls, consciousness, heaven, hell, religion & God...in my opinion, is all created for people to feel better about their existence and to ease their fears of death.
 
A man went to a barber shop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed.
As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation.
They talked about so many things and various subjects.
When they eventually touched on the subject of... God, the barber said:
'I don't believe that God exists.'
'Why do you say that?' asked the customer .
'Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn't exist.
Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people? Would there be abandoned children?
If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain.
I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things.'
The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument.
The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop.
Just after he left the barber shop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard.
He looked dirty and unkempt. The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber :
'You know what? Barbers do not exist.'
'How can you say that?' asked the surprised barber. 'I am here, and I am a barber. And I just worked on you!'
'No!' the customer exclaimed. 'Barbers don't exist because if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside.'
'Ah, but barbers DO exist! That's what happens when people do not come to me.'
'Exactly!' affirmed the customer . 'That's the point! God, too, DOES exist! That's what happens when people do not go to Him and don't look to Him for help.
That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world.'


So you're saying God is Sweeny Todd. Makes sense, I guess.
 
A man went to a barber shop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed.
As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation.
They talked about so many things and various subjects.
When they eventually touched on the subject of... God, the barber said:
'I don't believe that God exists.'
'Why do you say that?' asked the customer .
'Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn't exist.
Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people? Would there be abandoned children?
If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain.
I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things.'
The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument.
The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop.
Just after he left the barber shop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard.
He looked dirty and unkempt. The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber :
'You know what? Barbers do not exist.'
'How can you say that?' asked the surprised barber. 'I am here, and I am a barber. And I just worked on you!'
'No!' the customer exclaimed. 'Barbers don't exist because if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside.'
'Ah, but barbers DO exist! That's what happens when people do not come to me.'
'Exactly!' affirmed the customer . 'That's the point! God, too, DOES exist! That's what happens when people do not go to Him and don't look to Him for help.
That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world.'


Its a valid point, but a quick little metaphor does not explain the world. I've met a ton of religious people that were pure fucking miserable and I've met atheist who lived great lives (not just "wealthy"). And what about starving babies that never had a chance?

Too bad its not that easy.
 
If you're going to listen to a physicist giving metaphysical advice I bet I can find you a pastor with a strong viewpoint on gravitational singularities. (that's a joke for all of you professional trolls)

ITT: Appeal to Authority and not even a relevant authority...
 
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Its not that there is a smart guy hiding in the sky whom we call God. Believe it or not, its not possible to define God. Hawking is overrated indeed. He is just another confused scientist who changes his opinion every 6 months.
 
Stephen Hawking is over-rated, like most mainstream scientists. He follows the religion of science while others follow the religion of their liking. Boxing yourself into any belief system is limiting and all these "scientific" dipshits do exactly that.

QFT. Hawkins knows as much about death as any one of us.
 
Stephen Hawking is over-rated, like most mainstream scientists. He follows the religion of science while others follow the religion of their liking. Boxing yourself into any belief system is limiting and all these "scientific" dipshits do exactly that. If people want to follow these scientific weaklings that are too intellectually lightweight to interpolate correct results from the data at hand then that is their choosing. Just remember what happens when you listen to your stock broker.

It's not that I care whether or not heaven or hell exists. It's just that I understand that energy can not be destroyed from being disembodied. One day this will be as well established as the world being round is. All truth goes through 3 stages and right now the "scientific" (AKA dipshit community that can measure things all day long but not reach accurate, coherant conclusions) sheep are being what they're raised to be. Being a scientist doesn't make you special. Being right does. And being a scientist doesn't make you right. Being a non-scientist doesn't make you wrong. Being right makes you right and I'm sick of these scientific dipshits getting credit when they are clearly wrong. Just like the dipshits of 500 years ago touting how the world was flat when the real thinkers -- not the intellectually shallow scientists of this day -- always knew it was round. Way to go guys. Everyday it becomes more and more clear why most people are poor.

I have been trying to think of a way to respond to this, but I cant even comprehend how a grown adult can have such simplistic feeble thoughts, so ill leave it at that.
 
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Anyone criticizing Hawkins has not read his work. And those criticizing him would never understand his work anyway, funny how that works.
 
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A man went to a barber shop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed.
As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation.
They talked about so many things and various subjects.
When they eventually touched on the subject of... God, the barber said:
'I don't believe that God exists.'
'Why do you say that?' asked the customer .
'Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn't exist.
Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people? Would there be abandoned children?
If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain.
I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things.'
The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument.
The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop.
Just after he left the barber shop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard.
He looked dirty and unkempt. The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber :
'You know what? Barbers do not exist.'
'How can you say that?' asked the surprised barber. 'I am here, and I am a barber. And I just worked on you!'
'No!' the customer exclaimed. 'Barbers don't exist because if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside.'
'Ah, but barbers DO exist! That's what happens when people do not come to me.'
'Exactly!' affirmed the customer . 'That's the point! God, too, DOES exist! That's what happens when people do not go to Him and don't look to Him for help.
That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world.'

Said he to himself as he recursively chatted freely with someone masquerading as a mirror.

Stephen Hawking is over-rated, like most mainstream scientists. He follows the religion of science while others follow the religion of their liking. Boxing yourself into any belief system is limiting and all these "scientific" dipshits do exactly that. If people want to follow these scientific weaklings that are too intellectually lightweight to interpolate correct results from the data at hand then that is their choosing. Just remember what happens when you listen to your stock broker.

It's not that I care whether or not heaven or hell exists. It's just that I understand that energy can not be destroyed from being disembodied. One day this will be as well established as the world being round is. All truth goes through 3 stages and right now the "scientific" (AKA dipshit community that can measure things all day long but not reach accurate, coherant conclusions) sheep are being what they're raised to be. Being a scientist doesn't make you special. Being right does. And being a scientist doesn't make you right. Being a non-scientist doesn't make you wrong. Being right makes you right and I'm sick of these scientific dipshits getting credit when they are clearly wrong. Just like the dipshits of 500 years ago touting how the world was flat when the real thinkers -- not the intellectually shallow scientists of this day -- always knew it was round. Way to go guys. Everyday it becomes more and more clear why most people are poor.

Trying to sound clever doesn't make you sound less stupid. . . (In fact your post sounds like nonsense, so maybe I have learning difficulties!)

Science is based around debunking it's own theories for pete's sake. Everytime someone comes up with something it is first established if it stands up to experiment. If it doesn't it's immediately dismissed, as without being able to establish something in either the positive or negative renders it worthless.

Science will always get shit wrong, because science cares not for the theory itself or even any outcome when tested. It is based around disproving itself and everything it may or may not currently hold true.

If religion took a scientific approach to that which must not be questioned [gimme a fucking break], religion would discard itself for the utter bullshit that it is. No experiment can either prove or disprove the flying spaghetti monster's existence, therefore it is tantamount to irrelevant.

I'm not completely sure why I always get involved in these threads, because to believe, in my very arrogant opinion, is just laughable. If believers weren't subjected to the religious bullshit at a young age, or were at least bought up to question their surroundings and be proud of their own thoughts, they might actually realise how utterly retarded religion is.

I feel sorry for those who are that closed minded they believe in heaven, hell, the devil, god and sin. What. a. load. of. shit. (It's like a shit fucking fairy tale for adults.)

Seriously, I'm shocked by the number of people who are seemingly not afflicted with a serious mental disablement, who fail to think freely and continue to live by this pathetic childish doctrine without question.

You have a mind, fucking use it. Stop wasting it on rubbish that holds you to ransom with fear and a non-existent dividend. The time to appreciate the brilliance of your life is numbered and once it's over. . . it's fucking over. Game over, lights out, ciao.
 
I feel sorry for those who are that closed minded they believe in heaven, hell, the devil, god and sin. What. a. load. of. shit. (It's like a shit fucking fairy tale for adults.)

I don't believe in any of that stuff either, but seriously dude, don't you realize the irony of your statement?
 
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how can anyone argue one side of something they have no comprehension of. nobody knows, with our current 'technology' we cant know anything. Just because it seems more probable also does not mean its true (just look at the earth being flat).

Anyone who 100% believes in one side is stubborn.
 
Science is based around debunking it's own theories for pete's sake. Everytime someone comes up with something it is first established if it stands up to experiment. If it doesn't it's immediately dismissed, as without being able to establish something in either the positive or negative renders it worthless.

Science will always get shit wrong, because science cares not for the theory itself or even any outcome when tested. It is based around disproving itself and everything it may or may not currently hold true.

That's exactly my point! Science only goes off what the facts currently are and our current interpretation of them. If somebody is AHEAD of science or has a better interpretation of the data he will be held up by the scientific community as being an outsider and wrong, just like the highly educated who knew the Earth was round far before "official" history and science caught up with them. People 10x ahead of the scientific sheep (who are virtually no different than religious sheep, just a hair smarter) will always be scoffed at because the sheep don't know how to use their minds to reach accurate conclusions, they only know their tools. And when their tools limit them they stop immediately and wait for better tools. That's one way to approach life I suppose, but not always the most profitable.

And Stephen Hawking isn't the end all on science or cosmic understanding. I've read "A Briefer History of Time". It's a fascinating book and it presents great information. I don't hate the guy -- he's just not my personal Jesus like he is for many religious scientists. He is just one guy with an opinion to be meshed with your own opinion.

I'm not saying religion is right. Religion is 90% BS. But science isn't the end all either. Science is just another tool, and like religion, it can't possibly hold all the answers.
 
I tend to not worry so much about the unprovable, but what effect believing the unprovable has on its believers. It creates comfort, it creates terrorism. It causes existential angst, it gets rid of existential angst. No wonder there are so many flavors.

Hawking is an intellectual, so he takes it on that level. Of course he doesn't believe in anything transcendental. He calls his brain a computer then denies the existence of anything his computer brain cannot compute, because by definition he is talking about the unknowable as far as intellect goes.

High mathematics for the braniacs, fairy tales for the undeveloped, nihilism for the cold and reactive, detachment for the calm, disbelief for the angry or afraid, apathy for the uninterested or distracted...

Flavors.
 
This looks like a good place for this
http://www.wickedfire.com/shooting-...n-gives-you-some-spot-advice.html#post1244113

Anyway I'll lay it down for you.

The thing atheists seem to fail at is that they don't realize they are part of a religion that is atheism. The reason is that atheists believe that god doesn't exist, now take note of the word believe cause that's the important bit.

The first lemma is that one can not disprove the existence of god and to show this let's have a little thought experiment. Suppose you come up with an experiment that will disprove a god exists and you say that if result X happens then god doesn't exist. Now all one has to say is well god made result X happen. Now your experiment has been carried out and X has happened, but it's been proposed that god made result X happen. So you've both proved and disproved god creating a logical fallacy. Therefore no such experiment could exist.

Atheists will claim it as fact that there is no god. But it's not a fact it's a belief because the absence of a god is something that can not be proven by science or logic, which is basically the nature of the concept of a god. Now since science and logic can not disprove the existence of a god by definition anyone who claims there is no god with no possible chance of their being a god is participating in a belief and thus falling under the definition of a religion.

"Religion - a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects"

The keyword in that definition being belief.

Now since atheist have a belief they are participating in a religion and since that religions practices is to denounce religion it quite nicely fits the definition of hypocrisy.

Thus atheism is a religion based on hypocrisy.

If one wants to not believe in anything the only choice then is agnosticism which has no belief one way or the other towards the existence of a god and therefore is not a religion.
 
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