Rev Share on Rebills

[miketpowell]

Has anyone done a rev share deal working directly with an advertiser for a re-bill they heavily promote for awhile? I mean full rev share where you get a percentage of each payment and rebill they collect so you can get a ton more per lead but you gotta wait much longer.

If so how much more per lead were you able to make then an upfront flat amount?

Obviously the disadvantages here is you are taking on risks for the advertiser, if they fuck up the merchant account or something you probably won't get paid. But if they are willing to do a good rev share the huge increase could very well be worth it.

I've spoken with someone that does it for dating because of the volume of leads they produce and they get a ton more per lead by doing it that they just gotta wait much longer. Dating sites though I doubt loose their merchant accounts as easily or often so the risk is not the same.

 

[Rajuthan]

Karaktr Media :: Leading offers with more incentives.

 

[tob]

Do this and you will make cake.

I would convince advertiserto pay me $0 per lead, and then negotiate 25%+ rev share on initial + recurring payments.

 

[Volume10]

Do this and you will make cake.

I would convince advertiserto pay me $0 per lead, and then negotiate 25%+ rev share on initial + recurring payments.

you would not like this scenario at all. and you would be 45 days out getting any money.

 

[BigWill]

I would do it for 50%(+). I could care less if I get paid net 90 as long as I know im getting paid

 

[robfantasy]

I would do it for 50%(+). I could care less if I get paid net 90 as long as I know im getting paid

what kind of volume you do and what verticals are u in?

pm me

 

[Sonny Forelli]

I trust the idiots behind 70% of these offers about as much as I do a used car salesman.

What happened to the Power 500 Rebills from a year ago?

 

[Volume10]

I would do it for 50%(+). I could care less if I get paid net 90 as long as I know im getting paid

Will - how much traffic would you float net 90? Risk management is at the top of my list when we build campaigns. There is no way that you know that you are getting paid - that is the problem. You might have 2mm in the bank but if you do $200,000/month on an offer by the time you get paid your AR is $350k (net 45) $700k (net 90). With the instability of these offers I doubt you would really want to extend anyone that amount of credit. I wouldn't extend my Moms that amount of credit and my Mom is a BALLER!

Also, what most affiliates don't understand is the LTV of these customers is probably not what you think.

 

[majorbta]

Also, what most affiliates don't understand is the LTV of these customers is probably not what you think.

Depends on the billing terms and the quality of the product. Some of the rebill offers you might be surprised on. It just depends on how aggressive the advertiser gets with the terms. There is an inverse relationship to LTV and aggressiveness of the terms.

 

[mstern77]

Depends on the billing terms and the quality of the product. Some of the rebill offers you might be surprised on. It just depends on how aggressive the advertiser gets with the terms. There is an inverse relationship to LTV and aggressiveness of the terms.

The LTV depends on a lot of different factors. Everything from the terms, billing, fulfillment, and call center practices. As an affiliate it would be stupid to rely on any company to collect 100% of your revenue for you.

I would also argue that product quality isn't as important as the type of product that is being sold. A weight loss product is much different than a software product. The only way I would take a risk like this is if you know the advertiser VERY well and have been paid consistently by them for over a year. If you have that relationship locked up then it may be a great way to boost your revenue per trial.

 

[fly higher]

I've considered doing this for my Acai offer, as long as there was volume behind the publisher. When you share the risk with the advertiser both parties definitely profit more - that's the way it's always been.

 

[erect]

Also, what most affiliates don't understand is the LTV of these customers is probably not what you think.

The LTV depends on a lot of different factors. Everything from the terms, billing, fulfillment, and call center practices. ...
I would also argue that product quality isn't as important as the type of product that is being sold.

mstern is 100% correct. I'm in the later stages of setting a relationship like this up & would never even consider doing it for a mainstream niche.

 

[Roundabout]

We used to do this with casinos until Congress passed the UIGEA bill in '06, then our attorneys said "If you promote casinos and get a cut every time someone loses money, you're technically an extension of the casino yourself, and can be nailed for aiding and abetting"

Now granted being an extension of an Advertiser with a rebill is far less risky, but, if you have any concerns over the FTC suing the Advertisers, I'd think you'd get more easily dragged through the mud into an indictment or suit, no?

 

[Sonny Forelli]

We used to do this with casinos until Congress passed the UIGEA bill in '06, then our attorneys said "If you promote casinos and get a cut every time someone loses money, you're technically an extension of the casino yourself, and can be nailed for aiding and abetting"

Now granted being an extension of an Advertiser with a rebill is far less risky, but, if you have any concerns over the FTC suing the Advertisers, I'd think you'd get more easily dragged through the mud into an indictment or suit, no?

that's a very good point

 

[Volume10]

We used to do this with casinos until Congress passed the UIGEA bill in '06, then our attorneys said "If you promote casinos and get a cut every time someone loses money, you're technically an extension of the casino yourself, and can be nailed for aiding and abetting"

Now granted being an extension of an Advertiser with a rebill is far less risky, but, if you have any concerns over the FTC suing the Advertisers, I'd think you'd get more easily dragged through the mud into an indictment or suit, no?

Our attorneys don't see it like that. You still are in the same relationship with the advertiser you would be in if they paid you your $45 up front. You do not own the product/sites/messaging that most likely would land the FTC at the advertisers door. The FTC doesn't care what your payterms are - if they are going to go after you they will go after you.

 

[Roundabout]

Our attorneys don't see it like that. You still are in the same relationship with the advertiser you would be in if they paid you your $45 up front. You do not own the product/sites/messaging that most likely would land the FTC at the advertisers door. The FTC doesn't care what your payterms are - if they are going to go after you they will go after you.

When your own profits are derived from the quantity of product the client purchases, IMO, you are a direct extension of the company itself, even if on a microscopic level. Whereas if you charge a flat, one-time fee for an ad referral (e.g. CPA), you're detached somewhat.

This is why I fucking hate attorneys and I missed my calling. Where else can you make a fortune by being right only 50% of the time ;-)

 

[lukem]

We've been doing the rebills for a while now on our campaigns. We've set it up so the vast majority of your money is given to you upfront like any other cpa program. We then give you a small bounty on rebills that come in over the lifetime of our customers. It adds up to about 5% on top of your CPA...

 

[Volume10]

When your own profits are derived from the quantity of product the client purchases, IMO, you are a direct extension of the company itself, even if on a microscopic level. Whereas if you charge a flat, one-time fee for an ad referral (e.g. CPA), you're detached somewhat.

This is why I fucking hate attorneys and I missed my calling. Where else can you make a fortune by being right only 50% of the time ;-)

But that would mean every employee is on the line that works for you as they benefit from the quantity of product the client purchases. The legal reach isn't that deep.

My attorney and I have had the privilege of being in an industry that the FTC cleaned up and had clarity into their process. They are going to come after you for what you control. That being said, if you are in bed with someone that they are investigating they are def going to take that much harder of a look at what you are doing.

I have said this before on here. I would be more worried about a state AG that is up for re-election than the FTC if I were an advertiser.

 

[snickers]

Volume10, what would you recommend as a great rev share deal between advertiser and affiliate?

Given that the product was mass market and that the LTV was long.

 

[Volume10]

Volume10, what would you recommend as a great rev share deal between advertiser and affiliate?

Given that the product was mass market and that the LTV was long.

I don't think there is a way to answer that without being very product specific.

I also think that you would have a hard time identifying many mass market rebill products where the LTV tail was "long".

I am sure there are some advertisers on here that can speak to the average rebill products customer LTV with more expertise than I can. I would also be willing to bet if we took an honest poll most affiliates would guess that the tail is alot longer than what it actually is on most products.