Rand Paul OWNS Energy Committee, leaves woman speechless.

RP is comparing freedom of choice with one's body to having the freedom to buy and make whatever the fuck people want?

Ridiculous.

He's just pointing out a blatant double standard.

I'm sure everyone would agree that the decision to vacuum a fetus out of your own body is a much bigger decision than choosing what type of toilet you're going to purchase.

So with that in mind, how does it make any sense that they say do what you will with abortion, while also saying "YOU CAN'T DO THAT WITH YOUR TOILET!!" ?

If you dare say it's because it's not environmentally friendly, you should shoot yourself in the penis.

The real answer to that question is money. Energy companies that own the politicians and the money they can make from fines.
 


can someone explain this to me -- i just watched it and all i could think of was, who cares if he can't buy an old appliance? if the new ones conserve more energy/are more energy efficient, isn't that something we want to promote? this whole 'convince me with persuasion' thing -- i think there are some pretty persuasive arguments for energy conservation, and yet people still ignore them. i dunno -- someone enlighten me here. if we can do it without starting a fight that would be cool too

One of the main reasons this is a problem is that people who advocate these policies always ignore the negative effects of their policies. They see some particular benefit but don't see the consequences, which are almost always worse than the original problem. There are numerous examples of goverment mandating something that is supposedly more energy efficient, enviromentally friendly, etc., but it turns out to be worse than the free market alternatives. I posted an example of this above with low-flow toilets.
 
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He's just pointing out a blatant double standard.

I'm sure everyone would agree that the decision to vacuum a fetus out of your own body is a much bigger decision than choosing what type of toilet you're going to purchase.

So with that in mind, how does it make any sense that they say do what you will with abortion, while also saying "YOU CAN'T DO THAT WITH YOUR TOILET!!" ?

If you dare say it's because it's not environmentally friendly, you should shoot yourself in the penis.

The real answer to that question is money. Energy companies that own the politicians and the money they can make from fines.

Not sure what you're trying to say here...

You point out the absurdity of the comparison, then you ask me to consider the comparison again?

Get some sleep, then come back.
 
Not sure what you're trying to say here...

You point out the absurdity of the comparison, then you ask me to consider the comparison again?

Get some sleep, then come back.

Where did I point out an absurdity of the comparison? I think it's a good comparison because it shows how backwards they are.
 
Not sure what you're trying to say here...

You point out the absurdity of the comparison, then you ask me to consider the comparison again?

Get some sleep, then come back.

The point Rand is making is that she expects to have the ultimate choice of keeping, or killing, a baby and thus implies that all other women have the intelligence and discretion to make the proper choice. Whatever that may be.

Now, Rand is pointing out, if you are freely able to make that big of a choice without government telling you what you should, or should not, do should the government then interfere in telling you what toilet, lightbulb, washer, etc. you should buy?

If she doesn't want the government regulating a significant choice like an abortion then should the government regulate something so insignificant as what light bulbs you should buy?

Of course not. It's a ridiculous and most certainly does have ramifications on American consumers and the American lighting and appliance industries.

You're viewing Rand's statements as a comparison, in which case, yes, it would be an extreme one. But what I feel, only Rand could tell you for sure, he's trying to convey is that very extreme difference between the choices and how ridiculous it is that people of such influence are wasting their time on decisions and committees like these.

Now that is absurd.

Finally I'd note that he's trying to also tie in the point that every one should have as much choice as possible. By putting unnecessary impediments on the choices you have in the marketplace will only breed less competition, less happy consumers, higher prices, poorer items and more financial turmoil for both consumers and manufactures.

I guess it all comes down to how you perceive his arguments. Maybe he did word them poorly and most people didn't interrupt them the way I did. Either way on the core of the issue, regardless of what analogy he used, was bang on as usual.
 
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Where did I point out an absurdity of the comparison? I think it's a good comparison because it shows how backwards they are.

Listen... I like RP, and I usually agree with his stance. However, I think that he could have done better than this. Comparing personal choice with one's body and personal choice of light bulbs is rather weak.

He could have lectured her on how many of these "green" products don't work or are just as hazardous - if not more. There is plenty of evidence to support this argument, and I think he would have made a more convincing point.

I don't want anyone to have the freedom to choose whatever the hell they want. I have a neighbor who chose not to use garbage cans - fucking dogs ripped into it and dragged his shit all over the street all the time. I finally called code enforcement. He now has garbage cans.

All I'm saying is that he could have made a better, more convincing argument.
 
(1) They're a lot more expensive. As he said in the video, it can cost thousands of dollars and there are a lot of low income families who can't afford it.

(2) Most importantly, he says "convince me" in the sense of being a consumer, it's a no-brainer that energy conversation is important and he admits that. There are multiple aspects when he says "convince me". They need to be competitive in terms of pricing, they need to not break down so often, they can't cost so much to fix or implement. There is absolutely NO INCENTIVE for companies to address these issues when the government is FORCING people to buy them.

point 2 makes sense to me. i understand now. thanks bros
 
The point Rand is making is that she expects to have the ultimate choice of keeping, or killing, a baby and thus implies that all other women have the intelligence and discretion to make the proper choice. Whatever that may be.

Now, Rand is pointing out, if you are freely able to make that big of a choice without government telling you what you should, or should not, do should the government then interfere in telling you what toilet, lightbulb, washer, etc. you should buy?

If she doesn't want the government regulating a significant choice like an abortion then should the government regulate something so insignificant as what light bulbs you should buy?

Of course not. It's a ridiculous and most certainly does have ramifications on American consumers and the American lighting and appliance industries.

You're viewing Rand's statements as a comparison, in which case, yes, it would be an extreme one. But what I feel, only Rand could tell you for sure, he's trying to convey is that very extreme difference between the choices and how ridiculous it is that people of such influence are wasting their time on decisions and committees like these.

Now that is absurd.

Finally I'd note that he's trying to also tie in the point that every one should have as much choice as possible. By putting unnecessary impediments on the choices you have in the marketplace will only breed less competition, less happy consumers, higher prices, poorer items and more financial turmoil for both consumers and manufactures.

I guess it all comes down to how you perceive his arguments. Maybe he did word them poorly and most people didn't interrupt them the way I did. Either way on the core of the issue, regardless of what analogy he used, was bang on as usual.

Not everyone is capable of calculating the consequences of their choices. That's why minors can't enter into contracts or vote. You have to pass an eye test to get a driver's license. You have to pass the bar to practice law... ect. ect.

Do you really want this nation of idiots making choices that indirectly affect you?

Should welfare moms be allowed to have 10 kids? Should people with no jobs be able to take out a mortgage? Should crack addicts be allowed to carry guns? Should people be allowed to drive drunk?

Like I said before, I like Rand Paul. Although, if he wants to live in a free-for-all nation, he's not able to see the consequences himself.
 
Australian parliament question time is much more entertaining. They're seriously like children...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUhaAaSsI_4]YouTube - Juvenile moment in Parliament[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd3128WvqpA]YouTube - Labor on Gilligan's Island[/ame]
 
Not everyone is capable of calculating the consequences of their choices. That's why minors can't enter into contracts or vote. You have to pass an eye test to get a driver's license. You have to pass the bar to practice law... ect. ect.

Do you really want this nation of idiots making choices that indirectly affect you?

Should welfare moms be allowed to have 10 kids? Should people with no jobs be able to take out a mortgage? Should crack addicts be allowed to carry guns? Should people be allowed to drive drunk?

Like I said before, I like Rand Paul. Although, if he wants to live in a free-for-all nation, he's not able to see the consequences himself.

Nothing is perfect. You take the good with the bad.

No one is saying we should like in a free for all. Now you're the one drawing extreme comparisons taking an argument about light bulbs and comparing it to crack addicts carrying guns and welfare moms pumping out children.

They're different topics all together and should be handled differently.

Like you pointed out before there are many arguments against these new lightbulbs, toilets, washers, etc. and it's ridiculous for a government with such extreme issues at hand to even be debating such an insignificant issue. Especially with what appears to be quite a bit of incompetence leading it.

There are far more effective ways to deal with energy conservation then by limiting consumer choice on household items during financially tough times if you even believe energy conservation should be a priority in this economic and political climate. It's simply not an effective use of time, allocation of government resources or efforts.
 
Now you're the one drawing extreme comparisons taking an argument about light bulbs and comparing it to crack addicts carrying guns and welfare moms pumping out children.

They're different topics all together and should be handled differently.

You just fell directly into his trap.
 
Nothing is perfect. You take the good with the bad.

No one is saying we should like in a free for all. Now you're the one drawing extreme comparisons taking an argument about light bulbs and comparing it to crack addicts carrying guns and welfare moms pumping out children.

They're different topics all together and should be handled differently.

Like you pointed out before there are many arguments against these new lightbulbs, toilets, washers, etc. and it's ridiculous for a government with such extreme issues at hand to even be debating such an insignificant issue. Especially with what appears to be quite a bit of incompetence leading it.

There are far more effective ways to deal with energy conservation then by limiting consumer choice on household items during financially tough times if you even believe energy conservation should be a priority in this economic and political climate. It's simply not an effective use of time, allocation of government resources or efforts.

I certainly agree with you here.

As far as me making extreme comparisons... The examples I make show how making bad choices can have a indirect affect on others. Abortions usually affect one person. The examples are meant to show the absurdity of unregulated freewill.

Edit: And how some people should not be making choices when they cannot calculate the consequences.
 
Read the whole thread (namely my previous post) before commenting. I don't think Rand is comparing things directly.

I read the entire thread, but what you just told him to stop doing is what Ghost's issue was with the video.
 
RP is comparing freedom of choice with one's body to having the freedom to buy and make whatever the fuck people want?

Ridiculous.
Why is it ridiculous? It is a self-ownership issue.

Who owns you? Why do you NOT have the right to choose your own toilet or light bulbs but you can choose to have an abortion?
 
Why is it ridiculous? It is a self-ownership issue.

Who owns you? Why do you NOT have the right to choose your own toilet or light bulbs but you can choose to have an abortion?

An abortion affects ONE person - Definitely self-ownership (as you call it).

Your energy usage affects others - NOT self-ownership.
 
I read the entire thread, but what you just told him to stop doing is what Ghost's issue was with the video.

I didn't tell him to stop doing anything. He had a different perception on what Rand was trying to convey than I did and I shared my thoughts.