Providing a Service, Screwed on $, Want to Make a Biz of it, but "Can't" Sell

[JohnCJackson]

Providing a Service, Screwed on $, Want to Make a Biz of it, but "Can't" Sell

I'm not good at being concise, but I'll try. I can always elaborate in responses if anyone has some advice/questions. I'm prepared to take shit. Whatever.

Here's the short(er) deal: For the past year or so my main business has been providing a service (as in, I do the actual work), which isn't ideal, but it works. I am self-employed/contractor and I basically let someone else sell the service and I do the work. I get paid twice monthly. Between myself and 2 of my friends, we handle around 50-60 accounts continuously. There is some turnover but not much and it's usually replaced. This is through a company that sells the services and then basically outsources to us. This company also does white label resales, so in some cases other companies sell the service as well.

The people running the company paying us are not reliable at all. They have paid late a few times. There has been only one time they paid on-time without it being requested. When the last payment was due, they became unreachable for 3 days. Then after 3 days they contacted to let us know they had no money, because a few clients dropped unexpectedly. Nevermind the 50 clients that did pay and that they gave us new accounts to service a few days earlier. They wanted us to work for free for 10 days basically, until their next billing cycle. So we just stopped all work. I'm personally ready to either "erase" all the work I've done that hasn't been paid or attempt to "steal" the clients away.

Ideally I would like to just break away and sell these services direct to a new client base. However, even though the services are internet-based, I think the main client acquisition strategy is selling offline to less internet-savvy businesses and/or bundling with other services. Preferably locally. BUT I CAN'T FUCKING SELL, especially offline, and I have bad social anxiety. I already have domains to use to sell the services directly and have done SEO. I know how to get traffic, but it needs to be closed, and offline seems best.

I've thought about outsourcing the sales function, but not really sure how to go about that. First idea is maybe offering a very big one-time commission for selling a package, creating sales material, and placing a CL ad or something looking for freelance sales people. I'm not sure if that would just create bigger issues.

I also kinda want revenge at this company but I don't want to waste energy that could be productive.

Any thoughts/ridicule/ass-pics???


Background: After running/SEO my own sites for a long time I pretty much shut down a year ago. I kept a few main things and have a lot of residual activity. I sold off some domains for decent prices, let some others drop. But I've primarily been doing this service and unfortunately need the money. I mostly got into online business in the first place because of failure with some offline business attempts and social anxiety. Over the years I've read ideas here such as creating local online directories, SEOing, and then going to local business and selling/renting the listings, stuff like that, but it always requires in-person sales and I suck. I've tried stuff like that before. Right now I am fairly happy just doing the work that I do, and I would love to just sell it directly to clients without dealing with people screwing me over on money. If I can make that happen, even on a fairly low-level operation, that would be great.

 

[Wicked Ice]

1. Ask for upfront payment. (Some bitches here will say that it is impossible but lol what do i know, right?)
2. Get a good lawyer to draft some legal shit.
3. Learn sales, without it you have no business in the first place.

 

[slayerment]

Learn sales. Sales is essential to business. If you suck at it work at it to get better.

 

[JohnCJackson]

Thanks, as far as sales go- I'll put it this way. I understand the process and the HOW of doing things, and can see how things work and how they can be made better, and so on, a little better than the next guy. But I pretty much have fucking anxiety attacks when I try to talk to people. I've tried pretty much "training" more outgoing/"people" people to do what I would do, but it never works out.

 

[Ibanez | Jan]

Drop the unreliable company and try to go directly to their end customers. Then write a free WSO how to make money by outsourcing / reselling your service and promote it on different forums. Have your shit promoted by 10 different people instead of just one company. Diversify your risk.

If your service can be promoted outside of the US, try to find local people that resell your stuff in their countries. SEO services for non-english countries are more expensive imo and there are tons of local SEO / webmaster forums around.

Other than that: learn sales.

 

[rusvik]

The first idea to understand with basic sales is that the customer wants to buy. It is not your job to 'con' them into buying, which is how many people think of sales. They want to buy your service, but they also want another service and they want a new phone and they want to be millionaires and what not.

Customers do not live their life only around your service. So your job is to convince them to prioritize your service for their 'wants' and not one of the many other things they want. Make them think they don't only 'want' but 'need'.

Creating trust is first with this. Being honest and knowledgeable goes a long way. Generally it is better to be boring and knowledgeable/honest than bullshitting. I mean, bullshitters can sell a lot to other bullshitters, but buyers of SEO such as webshop owners and infomerchants don't want to be bullshitted.

Actually selling offline is easier than doing it online. You don't need to be everyones friend, just to be able to have a normal conversation with a little small talk.

 

[quintana]

You did it before, and you can do it again.
Find another company to work with and get them to pay upfront. you have enough proof that the service sells and there's money in it.

You can set up a little affiliate program and have other people close the sales for you, you get paid directly, and send a portion to the affiliate,

...or you can kill two birds with one stone and get a part-time job in telesales. You'll learn how to sell, and the exposure to being social, even over the phone, will help you improve your life.

As for revenge, when you've made alternative arrangements and no longer need this company, carry on as if everything is fine, let them keep billing customers and sending you the orders, and do nothing. Wait until they email for an update, wait a little bit more and say there's a delay. And just keep going on like this until all of their customers are pissed off.
Then send an email shot to the delayed customers inviting them to post on rip-off report or something like that, slamming the company and destroying their reputation.


That's just off the top of my head, but I'm sure you can think of something better.

 

[JohnCJackson]

3. Learn sales, without it you have no business in the first place.

I think this is a good point that I tend to overlook, because at first I want to say "Wait a minute, a man. I haven't worked a job in almost 9 years, and I've never had to sell anything myself. So I've been 'in business'."

But you are right, of course.

 

[JohnCJackson]

The first idea to understand with basic sales is that the customer wants to buy. It is not your job to 'con' them into buying, which is how many people think of sales.

Great point, and that's probably where a lot of the anxiety comes from with sales. I have general anxiety, but it can't help to approach in an adversarial way.

 

[Gertex]

If you have anxiety about selling yourself maybe approach a good university close to you and find some BA or MBA marketing students that are hungry to sell. Outline your services to them and pay on straight commission, with monthly income for each account as long as they are using your services. Sales person is responsible for servicing the account. Price your service/s accordingly.

 

[blureach]

Don't go the end-user route. If you are shit at selling, chances are that isn't going to change anytime soon.

It sounds like you have a pretty sweet arrangement with that company but they happen to be bad at business. They aren't paying you because they likely aren't putting in large enough margins and taking bad clients themselves.

By you going the end user route, instead of dealing white labeling and having few, good/bad clients, you open a whole world of new headaches.

Your best bet it to build up more white label arrangements and hedge your client work between a few different selling agencies.

 

[malloc]

I look at things like this differently and my point of view may not work in your situation...

To me an unreliable customer/client is one that I am not sure will pay. I do not care if people pay late, as long as they do pay. So as I said a good customer to me is one I can trust to pay. For example, one of my customers pays 3 months late and is on a 3 month billing cycle. It is funny to me, but she pays. If she ever ended her service I might lose out on that last "late" payment, but whatever that will only be a small fraction of the total. She is a good customer.

I also keep enough in reserve to make sure my costs are covered no matter what. I would never risk my business/well being on other people paying me on time. Even in perfectly good faith, things happen outside of our control.

I outsource sales. I found a few people who are good at offline sales but bad at (most) other crucial aspects of business (life). They need me to make their stuff work and for the most part they couldn't finish anything without me. So I support them and their eccentricities so they can make money and they bring me pre-sold customers. If I even talk to the customer it is to explain where to put their CC number. Now mine is a tiny operation but there is no reason why it could not scale decently. This is mostly rebill stuff so over time it could really do well. (Now I am feeling like I am very lazy!)

And finally revenge? No.

 

[JohnCJackson]

Don't go the end-user route. If you are shit at selling, chances are that isn't going to change anytime soon.

It sounds like you have a pretty sweet arrangement with that company but they happen to be bad at business. They aren't paying you because they likely aren't putting in large enough margins and taking bad clients themselves.

By you going the end user route, instead of dealing white labeling and having few, good/bad clients, you open a whole world of new headaches.

Your best bet it to build up more white label arrangements and hedge your client work between a few different selling agencies.

Yeah that's what I'm thinking. I'd rather go for resellers that can bring a bundle of clients but eliminate the middleman that's fucking up my money and taking a huge cut.

I would say at least 70% of the clients actually come through a handful of resellers doing the white label thing through the company that pays me. The rest are mostly lower-end that I personally wouldn't want to fuck with.

Ideally I'd go after one of these companies bringing 10+ accounts rather than making 10 individual sales on my own, for example.

I'm a little bit uncertain on the "ethics" of going after these existing resellers that I'm already working for indirectly. On hand I'd really like to be able to leverage the idea that "Hey, I've already been doing the work on so many accounts for you and you've been renewing for a year. So you must be happy with the service, but this dick head you are paying isn't paying me for the work and is lowering the quality."

 

[guerilla]

But I pretty much have fucking anxiety attacks when I try to talk to people. I've tried pretty much "training" more outgoing/"people" people to do what I would do, but it never works out.

Almost no one wants to do this, but I find role-play really helps.

In lieu of having someone to RP with, I sometimes rehearse conversations with myself, sometimes in front of a mirror, sometimes not.

If you want someone to talk to about pitching, or to practice on, let me know. I can make some time for that.

Also, why not try to find another similar company to your client to work for? Having many clients is better than relying on only one. Give yourself the option of who you work for.

 

[Meatytreats]

What service are you providing? If you cant give details, I understand, but that will help with getting the correct answer.

Feel free to PM me if u want.

It sounds like you are happy with your arrangement, other than the fact that your employer is a semi-deadbeat.

If the margins are there and it's just a matter of getting clients, you can find people pretty easily. Surely, you have competition, right? Maybe approach them?

 

[rusvik]

Almost no one wants to do this, but I find role-play really helps.

In lieu of having someone to RP with, I sometimes rehearse conversations with myself, sometimes in front of a mirror, sometimes not.

If you want someone to talk to about pitching, or to practice on, let me know. I can make some time for that.

Also, why not try to find another similar company to your client to work for? Having many clients is better than relying on only one. Give yourself the option of who you work for.

I've heard Toastmasters recommended many times.

I used to almost pass out from doing a public presentation, then after a few horrible ones, I relaxed, but then discovered that I wasn't good at it.

So yeah, any kind of role playing or training will at least help some.

 

[scottspfd82]

Great point, and that's probably where a lot of the anxiety comes from with sales. I have general anxiety, but it can't help to approach in an adversarial way.

I love sales.

I had pretty bad social anxiety when I was younger, and I'm still a relatively laid-back and quiet person. I remember when I absolutely HATED sales. I used to cold-call people and try to sell timeshare vacations and home loans. I was younger, I enjoyed the experience, but I will never do that type of selling again.

The reason for the anxiety is probably because of how you think about what the word "selling" means. Most think of it as intruding on people and then trying to convince them to buy stuff they don't want in the first place. Anyone would be afraid of that, it's shitty work.

The big shift in perspective for me was to stop thinking as a "salesman" and start thinking as a "problem solver".

Right now there are countless people thinking "I really need someone reliable to outsource this work to" or "I really need help promoting my sites, but I don't know who to trust - I need someone that really understands what to do and how to do it, not the cheapest bidder on e-lance"....

...There are people all around you with nagging problems that they have no clue how to solve. Be their problem solver. Take the time to ask questions, learn about what they want, give them free advice, demonstrate knowledge, don't be emotionally invested in the outcome when you meet a prospect. Go in with the mindset that you're going to do whatever you can to help this person -for free - for half an hour.

If you do your job and earn their trust, you can just say "If you'd like me to help you out with this, here's what it'd cost to hire me, here's a proposal."

Worst case scenario, you make a new contact, add some value to their life and maybe learn a few things yourself.

Best case, they happily hand you a check, love the results you provide and work with you for a long time to come because you become a solution provider and a valuable asset to their business.

Just being one of the very few people who takes the time to understand people's problems, and then presenting a solution, instead of trying to shove a one-size-fits-all package that they don't want or need like most people do will put you miles ahead of the pack and land you a ton of business without doing any "selling" at all.

 

[scottspfd82]

I've heard Toastmasters recommended many times.

I used to almost pass out from doing a public presentation, then after a few horrible ones, I relaxed, but then discovered that I wasn't good at it.

So yeah, any kind of role playing or training will at least help some.

I am/was the same way.

I started doing live webinars in front of 10-20 people. Then 50-100. And now doing presentations in front of small groups of 10-20 people in person, and working my way up.

I don't care much for public speaking, but it's a great skill to have. I've found that kind of slowly working my way up works well for me. I've looked into toastmasters but haven't had the time to go check them out.

 

[CCarter]

I'm probably the worse salesman in the world. But I realized something, I've got the best product/service in the world, period. So I had other people really selling me and my abilities. I still can't sell for shit, but I know what I'm talking about, and people like the honesty.

Exactly what rusvik said, When you stop thinking of it like you are selling and just having a conversation about what you love doing, it takes away the sales mentality. You just have to be prepared for the follow through.

Unfortunately I don't agree that everyone needs to be a salesman, Some people are born for it, others are not. I'm a strong believer in being great at what you are good at and letting someone who is good at selling sell. In your scenario, I would built out those domains you have and approach other people to sell for you whether it's the affiliate marketing route or the sales team/white label route. You sit back relax, control everything since the orders will be coming through your websites and your hired sales team will handle them.

As far as revenge, I'd think twice about doing anything like that. You never know what opportunities might happen down the road. Someone at the company might really like you and when they leave might consider you the go to solution. Don't burn the bridge unless you are 100% positive they are completely useless as a company and as individuals. There might be someone on their team that is the head sales guy that's sick of their shit, and you can partner/team up with that person. Usually the head sales guy is going to be pissed that he works so hard to keep losing clients.

As far as today, I'd completely stop all work, and undo work done to show that they need to pay their bills on time and you are serious about it. If you let them get away with it once, they'll keep doing it over and over. Basically you are getting fucked over, and they are seeing how far they can push you. Either way, it looks like that company is going down the tubes if they are losing revenue/profits and they can't pay. So you need to act quickly.​

 

[JohnCJackson]

What service are you providing? If you cant give details, I understand, but that will help with getting the correct answer.

Feel free to PM me if u want.

It sounds like you are happy with your arrangement, other than the fact that your employer is a semi-deadbeat.

If the margins are there and it's just a matter of getting clients, you can find people pretty easily. Surely, you have competition, right? Maybe approach them?

I will PM you. It's not SEO, but it's something that can be bundled with that or stuff like web design. Frankly, it's something I just got into by chance that's fairly mundane and I was surprised at the interest. It's not something I ever thought of or would think would sell here, for example.