Peter Schiff - Austrian Scholars Conference

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That's a nice bit of logic there, Riddar. But belief does not equal reality. Belief influences how an individual interacts with reality, for sure. But just because belief is unique to the individual does not mean that the individual's belief determines reality.

You can believe jumping off the Empire State building won't kill you all you want. But you would be proven wrong by objective reality were you to actually test your belief.

I hesitate to make this claim, but your long-winded post about subjective reality seems like a cop out. You might as well have save yourself the trouble and said "Let's agree to disagree."
 


vinny lingo said:
That's a nice bit of logic there, Riddar. But belief does not equal reality. Belief influences how an individual interacts with reality, for sure. But just because belief is unique to the individual does not mean that the individual's belief determines reality.

You can believe jumping off the Empire State building won't kill you all you want. But you would be proven wrong by objective reality were you to actually test your belief.

I hesitate to make this claim, but your long-winded post about subjective reality seems like a cop out. You might as well have save yourself the trouble and said "Let's agree to disagree."
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Ok.....
 
Furthermore, your example of a body at rest versus the body rotating at a speed in excess of 1000 MPH is flawed. The person is at rest. The body on which the person rests is in motion. To prove your observation correct, the person would have to be moving at that speed independent of the speed at which the planet is moving. The earth is rotating at 1000MPH+ but the person, in relation to the planet, has not changed their position.

In other words, if this were some sort of bar bet, you'd get tossed out.
 
Jumping in a time machine and using your line of reasoning:



"Swedenborg, You can believe that man who has no wings can fly all you want. But you would be proven wrong by "objective reality" were you to actually test your belief and try to fly"

Go ahead Swedenborg, prove to me that "man can fly"
(circa 1700s):

Swdbg2.jpg

Now the question is what changed?

Did the "objective reality" of thermal dynamics change?


Did "gravity" change?



You can continue to believe that "objective reality" is set in stone and I can present to you hundreds of examples of individuals who dared to question what 99.99% of people accepted and who believed otherwise.....


The whole world eventually shifted based on their beliefs. - Like I said: B=I + E^2

Now if you would like I can indulge you and agree that you are "right" and I am "wrong" since you don't like long windedness ;)

By the way you aren't forced to read or respond that's why it's called "shooting the shit"
 
riddarhusetgal said:
Ok.....
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Really. It's not so hard to understand. You state that belief determines reality. And you're right. Belief determines individual reality. Which is really individual reaction to objective reality.

You're arguing that the shadow on the cave wall is reality, when in fact it's just a facsimile of reality.
 
riddarhusetgal said:
Jumping in a time machine and using your line of reasoning:



"Swedenborg, You can believe that man who has no wings can fly like a bird does all you want. Bu you would be proven wrong by "objective reality" were you to actually test your belief and try to fly"

Go ahead Swedenborg, prove to me that "man can fly"
(circa 1700s):

Swdbg2.jpg

Now the question is what changed?

Did the "objective reality" of thermal dynamics change?


Did "gravity" change?



You can continue to believe that "objective reality" is set in stone and I can present to you hundreds of examples of individuals who dared to question what 99.99% of people accepted and who believed otherwise.....


The whole world eventually shifted based on their beliefs. - Like I said: B=I + E^2

Now if you would like I can indulge you and agree that you are "right" and I am "wrong" since you don't like long windedness ;)

By the way you aren't forced to read or respond that's why it's called "shooting the shit"
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Oh, I'm not upset or anything. I simply wanted to illuminate the flaw in your logic. And now even you are arguing against the post of yours I originally responded to.

You originally attempted to state that all reality is subjective, therefore both you and guerilla were right (or wrong, whatever). I'm saying that there is objective reality that exists independent of an individual's subjective reality.

In the post quoted above, you just proved my point (and Guerilla's) even further. You illustrate that even if "everyone" believes something like "man cannot fly" that there exists an objective reality in which man can fly (really, man can build flying machines which carry human passengers).
 
vinny lingo said:
Oh, I'm not upset or anything. I simply wanted to illuminate the flaw in your logic. And now even you are arguing against the post of yours I originally responded to.

You originally attempted to state that all reality is subjective, therefore both you and guerilla were right (or wrong, whatever). I'm saying that there is objective reality that exists independent of an individual's subjective reality.

In the post quoted above, you just proved my point (and Guerilla's) even further. You illustrate that even if "everyone" believes something like "man cannot fly" that there exists an objective reality in which man can fly (really, man can build flying machines which carry human passengers).
Click to expand...

ok, you win.......
 
Ok, to attempt to unfuck this thread, I'll say this. The Peter Schiff audio Guerilla linked to is a great example of objective reality winning out over subjective belief.

"Real estate always goes up."

"The stock market will keep going up."

What's happening right now is that the people who believed and perpetuated those things are getting a huge slap in the face. No matter how strongly people held those beliefs and based their actions on them, they are wrong. Now they're paying the price. And as far as who's philosophy to buy into about how things will get better, I'll go with those who have a clearer grasp on objective reality than those who contributed to this mess.

Doesn't that just seem nuts that the people responsible for creating this mess are saying they're the ones to fix it? And they want to fix it by recreating the circumstances that created it in the first place? Einstein said we cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.

I'm all for letting bad companies fail. They should not be considered institutions which must be propped up no matter the cost. That will damage us more in the long run than watching them crumble. And I am willing to accept the accompanying turmoil that letting those humongous, rotten pieces of shit fall into oblivion.
 
vinny lingo said:
Oh come on. I don't want to "win." This isn't some bit of machismo for me.
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The same thing always happens to me, particularly when I debate with women. Guys just agree or tell me to F off.

@Riddar, you asked. Sorry if this is uncomfortable. These is a safety is subjectivity, because you never have to be wrong, and everything you think is flexible so it can always bias towards the results later. We've all been there. It's hard to get past. When you do, things look a lot more uncertain.

But it's real.
 
vinny lingo said:
"Real estate always goes up."

"The stock market will keep going up."
Click to expand...
Basically manias. Now that many of us are smarter about this, we will see ways to protect ourselves and profit during future manias.

Believing the official or mob narratives is no different than believing that Rachel Ray wants you to consume Acai berries to lose weight.
 
riddarhusetgal said:
Jumping in a time machine and using your line of reasoning:



"Swedenborg, You can believe that man who has no wings can fly all you want. But you would be proven wrong by "objective reality" were you to actually test your belief and try to fly"

Go ahead Swedenborg, prove to me that "man can fly"
(circa 1700s):

Swdbg2.jpg

Now the question is what changed?
Click to expand...

Martha please. "What has changed" is YOU GAVE HIM WINGS.


BTW, fractional reserve lending is the cause root of the global financial problem. Saving the core rotteness is not the answer.

@guerilla, I get the same amount of argumentative obtuseness from both genders. It really depends on how attached to the subject and position the person is.
 
Thanks, Guerilla and Nikko.

Oh, and I already sorta said this, but objectively, humans can't fly. We made flying machines we ride.
 
@guerilla

Listened to it today. The best speech I heard from Peter Schiff (probably because the ones i watch have some douchebag laughing at him, interrupting him etc.). Thanks for the share. + rep

By the way, does anyone know a good channel on youtube to keep updated on his stuff? I go onto http://www.youtube.com/user/Heavyload1957 to keep up with Peter, Gerald Celente and Bob Chapman but its not been updated in a while.
 
I just search for their name and look for the latest. Peter usually has all his media up on his page @ Europac. That was how I followed him before he took off on YouTube.

The Austrian Scholars conference is very cool stuff. It's a different format, and the people in the audience are super intelligent, so it's a shame Peter went so long he couldn't take questions, because the best part of some of the various presentations are the post speech Q&As.
 
Cheers man. I'm going to listen to the other guys on the conference. Love Austrian economics and sound economic reasoning.
 
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