One More Health Care Thread: The Race In Massachusetts
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I am just confused. I don't fucking get it.
I voted for Obama, (Hillary in the primaries) and i wanted him to get elected... buts its been a year... and he really hasn't done shit.
You get like 6-8 months to talk shit and blame Bush. Fine, Ok. That time has come and waaaaaaaaaaaaay gone....
I don't fucking get it...
I am just confused. I don't fucking get it.
I voted for Obama, (Hillary in the primaries) and i wanted him to get elected... buts its been a year... and he really hasn't done shit.
You get like 6-8 months to talk shit and blame Bush. Fine, Ok. That time has come and waaaaaaaaaaaaay gone....
I don't fucking get it...
I am curious.
When you voted for Obama, you must have done so with confidence that he would do specific things. Was there anything in his past that gave you that confidence?
Hillary, I get. She's been in the game a long time. She has history, power, and influence. I can understand folks having confidence in her to do specific things, and voting based on that confidence.
But, the idea of voting for Obama confuses me.
Working the halls of power has always been an art form. That's especially true if you don't have the specter of a foreign enemy (e.g. Japan, Germany, N. Vietnam, taliban, Iran, etc.) to use as a lever. Did Obama ever give you confidence that he knew that game well enough to pull it off?
I don't like any statist. But, I can understand why some are voted into office.
- FDR campaigned on fiscal conservatism. (Whoops.)
- Reagan campaigned on smaller government and less intrusion into private lives. (Nice try.)
- Brown campaigned on stopping the current health care package. (We'll see.)
The tighter the focus, the higher the likelihood of fulfilling a given campaign promise. To that end, Brown has a good shot of fulfilling the reason a lot of folks voted for him.
Obama's different. He promised a heckuva lot. And the things he promised were enormous in scope. What gave you confidence that he could do the things you wanted him to do? Or, more to the point, what barometer would you use to consider whether any president is a success?
A lot of ignorance in this thread regarding Canada and it's "liberal" ways.
After the Olympics when Harper puts in the extra conservative senators needed to push through all the shit sitting in the Senate we'll start seeing real progress.
The problem is the need to be "politically correct". The vast majority of Canada - rural Ontario, rural Atlantic Canada, and all the west (minus B.C to an extent) - are right leaning or very right winged.
Canadian federal governments have always felt a need to cater to the the French [Quebec] and the "native" culture because, mainly, they fear being the government that pushes them "over the edge" and makes Quebec separate.
For anyone who cares pick up, "Fearful Symmetry". It talks all about why Quebec offers nothing to Canada and is a burden both politically and economically.
Shit doesn't go through because Quebec won't agree with it and then they want all these laws that politicians feel obliged to agree with even though the rest of Canada doesn't want it AND they can't pay for themselves.
...
It all stems back to when Harper said he would, if elected, not support public funding of CBC.
CBC, all of a sudden, became hugely in favor of the liberals and trust me they still are and many employees have a very vocal hate for the Conservatives.
Leaving CTV which is pretty fair - but still, in the end, in it for the ratings and will do whatever is necessary to get people engaged.
Because of this the views of average Canadian aren't shared and Canada becomes viewed by the rest of the world as something it is not.
...
Because of Canada's recent string of Liberal governments some things have become out of control (in terms of social programs etc). But in the end Canada was the only G7 country to post a surplus in '08.
I could go on for hours - that's why I hate politics. But the fact is that the people here hating on Canadian health care, which undoubtedly has it's problems, is pretty efficient.
It doesn't cost a whole lot and the Conservatives have many changes to make things a little cheaper for the country in terms of healthcare.
...People don't go on facts. They go on opinion or in this case what happened to a friend of a friend who needed surgery? That's a great way to make a call on a whole countries health care.
If the media in our own country can't accurately portray what this country really is do you expect CNN, or god forbid Fox to do a fucking better job?
Also if you want to get surgery now you pay for it now. If you don't have the money you wait. Very rarely do people die on a waiting list - don't you think it'd all get a little more publicity and pressure on the government?
And yes, I do know. My grandmother, who was over 90, died this summer after having colon cancer. I know the process, I was contemplating flying her to NYC to get a needed surgery but she was able to get it immediately in our home town. She was taken care of to perfection, around the clock nurses, a private room for 7 weeks, and everything possible was done to help her. Unfortunately when you're that old no money can save you from far gone colon cancer. Total cost was under a few thousand.
I don't agree with the taxes I pay. But that made me feel a little better with the money I do give to the Government every year.
The government doesn't run the whole system - simple as that.
P.S - I'm looking at selling my new home here and getting a tiny spot in NYC. This isn't some Canada rocks, US sucks. I wish Canadians were as vocally conservative, and not so passive, as Americans. Don't smear Canada's healthcare when you've never lived here and don't understand how it works - just like how I don't argue with US healthcare. Because I don't know it all and because I can't sensibly argue.
After the Olympics when Harper puts in the extra conservative senators needed to push through all the shit sitting in the Senate we'll start seeing real progress.
The problem is the need to be "politically correct". The vast majority of Canada - rural Ontario, rural Atlantic Canada, and all the west (minus B.C to an extent) - are right leaning or very right winged.
Canadian federal governments have always felt a need to cater to the the French [Quebec] and the "native" culture because, mainly, they fear being the government that pushes them "over the edge" and makes Quebec separate.
For anyone who cares pick up, "Fearful Symmetry". It talks all about why Quebec offers nothing to Canada and is a burden both politically and economically.
Shit doesn't go through because Quebec won't agree with it and then they want all these laws that politicians feel obliged to agree with even though the rest of Canada doesn't want it AND they can't pay for themselves.
...
It all stems back to when Harper said he would, if elected, not support public funding of CBC.
CBC, all of a sudden, became hugely in favor of the liberals and trust me they still are and many employees have a very vocal hate for the Conservatives.
Leaving CTV which is pretty fair - but still, in the end, in it for the ratings and will do whatever is necessary to get people engaged.
Because of this the views of average Canadian aren't shared and Canada becomes viewed by the rest of the world as something it is not.
...
Because of Canada's recent string of Liberal governments some things have become out of control (in terms of social programs etc). But in the end Canada was the only G7 country to post a surplus in '08.
I could go on for hours - that's why I hate politics. But the fact is that the people here hating on Canadian health care, which undoubtedly has it's problems, is pretty efficient.
It doesn't cost a whole lot and the Conservatives have many changes to make things a little cheaper for the country in terms of healthcare.
...People don't go on facts. They go on opinion or in this case what happened to a friend of a friend who needed surgery? That's a great way to make a call on a whole countries health care.
If the media in our own country can't accurately portray what this country really is do you expect CNN, or god forbid Fox to do a fucking better job?
Also if you want to get surgery now you pay for it now. If you don't have the money you wait. Very rarely do people die on a waiting list - don't you think it'd all get a little more publicity and pressure on the government?
And yes, I do know. My grandmother, who was over 90, died this summer after having colon cancer. I know the process, I was contemplating flying her to NYC to get a needed surgery but she was able to get it immediately in our home town. She was taken care of to perfection, around the clock nurses, a private room for 7 weeks, and everything possible was done to help her. Unfortunately when you're that old no money can save you from far gone colon cancer. Total cost was under a few thousand.
I don't agree with the taxes I pay. But that made me feel a little better with the money I do give to the Government every year.
The government doesn't run the whole system - simple as that.
P.S - I'm looking at selling my new home here and getting a tiny spot in NYC. This isn't some Canada rocks, US sucks. I wish Canadians were as vocally conservative, and not so passive, as Americans. Don't smear Canada's healthcare when you've never lived here and don't understand how it works - just like how I don't argue with US healthcare. Because I don't know it all and because I can't sensibly argue.
Unfortunately, about 60% of the US is a bunch of mouth breathing xenophobic retards who love to vote against their own self interest like 070707.
If I'm a little more fair, the world is a complicated place and people like to simplify it by clinging to their slogans more than their guns and their religion. "Cutting taxes" and "More Freedom" is the answer to anything and everything, even though any intelligent person realizes that it's not the solution to foreign relations, arms control, climate control, bank regulation, health care or any other hot-button topic.
Many of the less intelligent believe in "American Exceptionalism", while shunning science, education and cities. America will forever be (or in their minds should be) a town of 5,000 comprised of non-college educated farmers, hardware store employees and soda shop owners in Indiana in the 1950's.
Warrantless wiretaps from the Patriot Act? It's to keep Americans safe! How dare you ask questions? Why do you love terrorists!?
Healthcare for everyone? It's unconstitutional! It'll give all my money to poor people who don't work hard! Don't tell me what to do!
The great irony is that if somehow the healthcare reform was really declared unconstitutional under the 10th amendment, the only constitutional answer would be a single payer system, which Fox news tells me will lead to hillbillies being sent to gas chambers or something. Obama trying to give everyone health insurance at a cost of maybe $100 a person per year in this country? That's certainly cause to compare him to people who tried to wipe out all the jews.
Otherwise, things can continue on as they are, everyone will just get treated only in emergency rooms and costs will continue to skyrocket. I'd love it if tea-baggers at least had the balls to say we should let the uninsured die in hospital parking lots. We'd finally save some money and see where people really stand on whether or not having basic healthcare is a right.
My hope at this point is that reform doesn't get passed and Darwin takes out all of these people who love "American Freedoms" as described by Rush more than than modern medicine.
In the meantime I will continue my expensive health care insurance plan, drive my fancy non-american sports car while the poor and middle class continue cutting my taxes to 80 year lows. I'm glad that the downtrodden are pulling for me, it means so much.
Hopefully the pretty dumb president lady can shoot your malignant melanoma off from her helicopter.
After all, in America failure is the new success:
Palin is a great success because she didn't win the white house, didn't abort her baby and quit her governorship!
The problem with them focusing on the health care bill is that people who can't afford health insurance don't typically vote (unless its just to put token black guy in the white house) and the actual voters all already have better insurance and don't want to subsidize all the freeloaders even more.
Some thoughts -
- Calling people Nazis, Socialists, Tea Baggers, Murderers, etc. does not serve any other purpose besides petty revenge. As much as you might disagree with someone's position, if you end the discussion with name-calling, nothing will ever get done.
- Most of the cost of health care goes toward treating chronic preventable diseases (obesity, diabetes, etc). Instead of focusing on health insurance, perhaps our government should start providing nutritious food, clean environments, and comprehensive health education to everyone?
- Unfortunately, I don't have the answer to that question. In fact, I really don't know how we can fix our health care system. That is why I consistently advocate for an independent committee, (hopefully) approved by both political parties, to find a way to make America healthier.
Sigh. And 90% of statistics are made up on the spot. College isn't for everyone, someone has to be a farmer, hardware store employee, garbage man, or soda shop owner.
Warrantless wiretaps are bullshit, the PATRIOT act does nothing but strip our rights, but at the same time, so does universal healthcare. Again I advocate the Singapore system. Everyone that's advocating socialized medicine acts like there's only two options: current system, or socialized. Well there's a lot more options than that (and they accuse conservatives of thinking in black and white?)
Climate control is run by setting the temperature in my house :338: Now climate change on the other hand, is still under scrutiny due to the leaked emails. Is it bad to slow/stop waste and reduce emissions? No, but is it bad to flip out and mandate things on a whim when the science is questionable? Of course it is.
Foreign relations? I've got a simple answer that'd be nice. Mind our own damn business. Now, I didn't say isolationism, did I?
"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." - Thomas Jefferson
Taxes could easily be cut if government waste was cut, as well as bringing troops home from abroad, and not wasting money on a "stimulus" package that has done absolutely nothing to help the unemployment rate.
90% of people who claim a certain percent of statistics are made up on the spot, are made up on the spot.
Brown's victory in Mass. senate race hardly a repudiation of health reform
Good article.
Massachusians wanted the federal government to get away from their health care system, they like it how it is now; it's universal (3% are now uncovered).
Good article.
Massachusians wanted the federal government to get away from their health care system, they like it how it is now; it's universal (3% are now uncovered).
I just have a hard time justifying a bureaucracy that is going to be this huge for only 4% of the population. I mean, this thing is going to be massive! Huge! It will be bigger than any department of the government save for the DOD. All for 4% of the population. 4% you say?
47,000,000 “Uninsured Americans”
- 9,487,000 non citizens
37,513,000 uninsured citizens
- 8,300,000 make between $50,000 and $74,999 per year
- 8,740,000 make more than $75,000 a year.
20,473,000 uninsured citizens making less that $50,000 a year
- 9,212,850 45 percent of uninsured people will be uninsured for less than four months
11,260,150 only 3.75% of the population of the US
The largest bureaucracy this country will ever see for less than 4% of the population? Kiss my ass. And anyone who thinks that because Mass instituted universal health care, that it somehow insinuates hypocrisy among republicans is a fucking moron. That's fucking states rights for you. That's how it is supposed to be! If the people of Mass want universal health care, fine, let them have it. If the people of Colorado don't, fine, they don't. Why do you think we have states in the first place? Why do you think it was a requirement before a state JOINED the union that they draft a state constitution? Read the 10th fucking amendment, which clearly says that this is a state issue. God fucking damn it, it's not that fucking hard. Fuck! This country is doomed.
Since a Democrat got elected, the rallying cry of the noisy has been to fight "government involvement" and "socialism" in general. So when does Scott Brown begin to try to dismantle big federal Medicare? Oh wait, he said people had to vote for him to help save it.
How about the others? I'd be interested in a list of congress members on record for being against Medicare and what their efforts have been. Last I knew, over 50 Republicans in congress were themselves on Medicare.
They still have to pay at least 25% on the premiums for that, so I guess Medicare is the better deal for those old enough to qualify.
Here's an article on the Medicare expansion of 2003 :
Republican Deficit Hypocrisy - Forbes.com
The problem is going to the hospital for anything at all. How is it that for a common sickness you can easily get a $10k+ hospital bill. It's just fuckin stealing.
When it comes to insurance, Hospitals are screwing over insurance companies and insurance companies are screwing over customers. This needs to be regulated.
When it comes to insurance, Hospitals are screwing over insurance companies and insurance companies are screwing over customers. This needs to be regulated.
My son was in the hospital for 4 days when he got sick with e.coli.
Now if you get e.coli there really isn't anything to cure it. It's something your body has to take care of on it's own. So other than watching the patient to make sure their kidneys are okay, giving them plenty of liquids, and pain medicine when they need it, there's not much else the Docs can do.
So my son basically laid in the hospital bed for 4 days and played video games. My wife and I got up with him during each night to use the bathroom, etc... (15x in one night..e.coli is bad stuff), the nurses didn't even do that (not that we wanted them to).
Anyway, they did a couple blood tests, liquids, and pain medicine, but that was it. The bill? Over $17,000!
Regarding the high costs of health care, here's a good read...
How American Health Care Killed My Father - The Atlantic (September 2009)
The article above is not without flaws, but it's engaging and insightful.
As for how to address the high costs (not to mention low service levels, lack of responsiveness to customers, etc.), here's another good read...
A Four-Step Healthcare Solution - Hans-Hermann Hoppe - Mises Institute
How American Health Care Killed My Father - The Atlantic (September 2009)
The article above is not without flaws, but it's engaging and insightful.
As for how to address the high costs (not to mention low service levels, lack of responsiveness to customers, etc.), here's another good read...
A Four-Step Healthcare Solution - Hans-Hermann Hoppe - Mises Institute
Yeah Massachusetts health care rocks! Oh wait...
The sobering lessons of health reform in Massachusetts. - By Darshak Sanghavi - Slate Magazine
Did I say it rocks?
People in Mass apparently are ok with their system right now, they want to keep it the same.
I think that was a major part of Brown's victory.