Offer To Buy WickedFire for $16M!!!
- Thread starter Jon
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I've been browsing this forum for a number of days now, and as a CEO of a profitable internet holding company, and founder of several companies that have been sold, closed down or rolled into other companies, I've been looking at what is happening and where the market is going. Thank you.
First of all congratulations on the market niche that you are targeting.
Secondly. I have made 5,6,7 and 8 digit company sales in my life as an internet entrepreneur. Offcourse I was not the only partner in the companies above.
Like Jon, I've always had a superior target. I started with a 5 digit sale ($xx,xxx) and went up to 8 ($xx,xxx,xxx) after a number of years in the internet industry. Therefore I do see his point. But at the same time, I did make a number of mistakes, and did not sell a 'job site' I run to TMP Worldwide back then (used to be a parent of Monster). Which till this day I regret, because the offer was more then the value. The job site (after the dotcom burst), shut down.
But at the same time, being involved with a number of merchant bankers, learning the business, sitting on the board of a public company, I recall that sometimes we say: "we eat what is on the table". As another offer might not come back. It may, but it does not have to.
Also, my personal motto, is that I don't like working for the same company 2 or more years. Its boring. Its more to do with managing staff, rather then innovating. Therefore I personally always get out, when I get an offer...
Therefore, from my own experience. I would personally take the deal.
From what you said the deal is $16M. Is that cash, or is it some cash/debt. How would you 'value' that. Sometimes debt is good. For example. If the deal is $16M, make $5M cash, and rest $11M debt (at a revolving interest of 5-10%). You can do that. Therefore you have monthly or quarterly interest coming to you fro the $11M they ow you. There are a number fo things you can play around with. Make the debt convertible into shares.
Also you need to know (do your due diligence) of what the buyer is. Are they private. If so, if you take on debt, when will you cash out. Are they going public. What's their market cap. etc... etc... there is so many things to consider before closing a deal.
If I was the buyer and making that offer. I would first think WHY do I want to make this offer. And to me the number one reason is 'traffic', and what can I do with this 'traffic'. I also see from your 'header' that you will be moving into other services, then just the forum. Which Makes ALOT OF SENSE, and could bring in extra revenue for the buyer. Although I do think that achieving $2-4M/yr in revenues is very reasonable at your stage with all the services you tend to offer, the time to get there will be 1-2yrs. If you do have the patience, then I suggest you stick with it. But if you are like me and want to move onto the next 'hot' thing (web2.0), then I would cash out and start something new.
If you consider the $2-4M/yr in sales 2yrs from now, then the buyer is paying 4-6x multiples of 'potential' revenues. That's something you should not pass by.
This is my opinion. PM me if you do need advice. I don't charge for it
Marco.
I've been browsing this forum for a number of days now, and as a CEO of a profitable internet holding company, and founder of several companies that have been sold, closed down or rolled into other companies, I've been looking at what is happening and where the market is going. Thank you.
First of all congratulations on the market niche that you are targeting.
Secondly. I have made 5,6,7 and 8 digit company sales in my life as an internet entrepreneur. Offcourse I was not the only partner in the companies above.
Like Jon, I've always had a superior target. I started with a 5 digit sale ($xx,xxx) and went up to 8 ($xx,xxx,xxx) after a number of years in the internet industry. Therefore I do see his point. But at the same time, I did make a number of mistakes, and did not sell a 'job site' I run to TMP Worldwide back then (used to be a parent of Monster). Which till this day I regret, because the offer was more then the value. The job site (after the dotcom burst), shut down.
But at the same time, being involved with a number of merchant bankers, learning the business, sitting on the board of a public company, I recall that sometimes we say: "we eat what is on the table". As another offer might not come back. It may, but it does not have to.
Also, my personal motto, is that I don't like working for the same company 2 or more years. Its boring. Its more to do with managing staff, rather then innovating. Therefore I personally always get out, when I get an offer...
Therefore, from my own experience. I would personally take the deal.
From what you said the deal is $16M. Is that cash, or is it some cash/debt. How would you 'value' that. Sometimes debt is good. For example. If the deal is $16M, make $5M cash, and rest $11M debt (at a revolving interest of 5-10%). You can do that. Therefore you have monthly or quarterly interest coming to you fro the $11M they ow you. There are a number fo things you can play around with. Make the debt convertible into shares.
Also you need to know (do your due diligence) of what the buyer is. Are they private. If so, if you take on debt, when will you cash out. Are they going public. What's their market cap. etc... etc... there is so many things to consider before closing a deal.
If I was the buyer and making that offer. I would first think WHY do I want to make this offer. And to me the number one reason is 'traffic', and what can I do with this 'traffic'. I also see from your 'header' that you will be moving into other services, then just the forum. Which Makes ALOT OF SENSE, and could bring in extra revenue for the buyer. Although I do think that achieving $2-4M/yr in revenues is very reasonable at your stage with all the services you tend to offer, the time to get there will be 1-2yrs. If you do have the patience, then I suggest you stick with it. But if you are like me and want to move onto the next 'hot' thing (web2.0), then I would cash out and start something new.
If you consider the $2-4M/yr in sales 2yrs from now, then the buyer is paying 4-6x multiples of 'potential' revenues. That's something you should not pass by.
This is my opinion. PM me if you do need advice. I don't charge for it
Marco.
Wouldnt the best way and fastest, of reaching your $50m target be buy selling things that arent worth much for $16m?
Can you really see wickedfire or any other webmaster forum ever making the owner $16m revenue.
Last i heard digitalpoint forum from ad revenue made around $5k/month and thats the top marketing forum at the moment. Even if you succeed in your dream to make wickedfire the best in the industry its still not gonna bring you no where near as close to your 50m target as selling for 16m.
Did you just have this dream asleep and you enjoyed it so much thought you would turn it into reality huh.
Here is the issue. 16M is a rediculous sum of money for any kind of forum with 3000 registered members... from stuff I have done that probably means 500 regular posters. Andrew is right in that webmasters are a very valuable niche to some people but no one is stupid enough to open bidding on a forum this small with that number no matter how much money they have they will try and get a deal... $5000 per member is not a realistic number period.
well, hes obviously a fucktard because he doesn't realize how ridiculous his bid was and how asstasticly long it would take him to recoup his investment. He would be better served buying a taco bell franchise then cryogenicly freezing himself until it pulled 16m.
And who the fuck buys a forum for 16m without becoming a fucking member and seeing what its all about .
If someone offers you 2million for this forum they are pretty fucking serious.
I have contributed some good shit to this forum but go ahead and flame me, I find this hard '100% impossible' to believe.
well, hes obviously a fucktard because he doesn't realize how ridiculous his bid was and how asstasticly long it would take him to recoup his investment. He would be better served buying a taco bell franchise then cryogenicly freezing himself until it pulled 16m.
And who the fuck buys a forum for 16m without becoming a fucking member and seeing what its all about .
is a pretty fucking weak factor when it comes to dropping this kinda cash.
If someone offers you 2million for this forum they are pretty fucking serious.
How the fuck are you going to earn 2million a year from this forum within 5years is beyond me.
I have contributed some good shit to this forum but go ahead and flame me, I find this hard '100% impossible' to believe.
I hate these kinds of threads because they suck you in, and in the end you learned nothing. Don't get me wrong, I love hearing Jon rip up the 3 stooges and the back and forth debate about whether or not it was a real offer, blah, blah, blah.
I'm going back to work. MSN just fucked me on something so I need to fix that.
I'm going back to work. MSN just fucked me on something so I need to fix that.
Perception is reality.
If you perceive something to be true, the to you that is real.
Belief is the first step to accomplishing your goals.
Believe you can do it, and eventually you will find a way to make it happen.
Okay, really going back to work now...
If you perceive something to be true, the to you that is real.
Belief is the first step to accomplishing your goals.
Believe you can do it, and eventually you will find a way to make it happen.
Okay, really going back to work now...
If I was 22 years old, had a degree from Michigan and made a good bit of coin from arbitrage - wanted to get into VC and had the chance to get an education at google for a couple years at $60k (plus my arbitrage money) I would say that was a good business decision. VC firms don't hire people without a few "real" jobs and the best learning experience is on the job training, and if you are from northern california what is the big deal in moving home? now if I was 33 and doing it that would be a different story
err, try again!
err, try again!
Mike your a nice guy.. but you have had 3 days of positive cash flow and now you sound like your ready to go on a motivational speaking tour!!!
you even had a "How I did it thread already" ?!?!
And perception is reality but someone elses dreams are definately NOT reality.
Jon:
Stop living in a fucking illusion. Or actually, maybe I'll forgive you by saying you probably have some mental disorder that you cannot distinguish between your actual dreams and what's happening in real life.
I can't believe anyone would believe this for half a second. Just like making $150k/year on a blog with 30 readers.
Come on man. Stop with your shit already
(And who the FUCK WOULD buy a forum where every 3rd post is about 7search activation, ebooks, and porn?)
Stop living in a fucking illusion. Or actually, maybe I'll forgive you by saying you probably have some mental disorder that you cannot distinguish between your actual dreams and what's happening in real life.
I can't believe anyone would believe this for half a second. Just like making $150k/year on a blog with 30 readers.
Come on man. Stop with your shit already
(And who the FUCK WOULD buy a forum where every 3rd post is about 7search activation, ebooks, and porn?)
Damn lerchmo! You seem awful upset about this whole thing. Why?
I'm not going to jump on the Jon bandwagon and defend him, because I know as much about this as everyone else. But, I still don't see what he has to gain by announcing this. To me it just seemed like he wanted to share a weird experience.
As for my thread, that was how I made money on one campaign for those three days. I enjoy reading other people's success stories, so I thought I should share mine. Hopefully it will continue, but if it doesn't I'll find another way, and probably share that experience as well. We learn from other's mistakes and successes.
No, someone else's dreams are not YOUR reality. It may be theirs though. That's what I meant. What you perceive the point of Jon's post to be, is YOUR reality. If you believe he's just blowing smoke up your ass, then to YOU that is the reality of the situation. That's all I meant.
It just seems like people are getting too upset about a simple post by Jon.
All I give a shit about is: WickedFire is still here, it's not going anywhere and it has a hell of a community. So, whether someone offered Jon money for it or not doesn't concern me (as long as he doesn't sell).
Obviously we are upset because we like this forum. And when the forum owner goes and says something that seems.. I wont even say how it seems. Some of us have invested time into making cool shit and sharing it with forum members mainly because we like the forum and the fact that it has less bullshit then other forums... had less bullshit.
And if somehow by some unbelievable stroke of improbability this fucktard really wants to pay 16m for this forum.....
Jon, you went about breaking the news extremely poorly. it just wreaks of
"HAHAH yeah fucking right". no one is that cavalier with 16million dollars and no one "doesn't think twice" about an offer so far over blown and ridiculous.
I don't know what else to say I am just re-quoting the same shit.
At the end of this:
I like this forum.
this thread is bullshit.
And if somehow by some unbelievable stroke of improbability this fucktard really wants to pay 16m for this forum.....
Jon, you went about breaking the news extremely poorly. it just wreaks of
"HAHAH yeah fucking right". no one is that cavalier with 16million dollars and no one "doesn't think twice" about an offer so far over blown and ridiculous.
wtf, "so there is no issue about that?" this just sounds fucking fake. I was really hoping this was a joke and jon would be like HAHAH gotcha! later on.. but instead he defended himself by flaming the disbelievers.
Fucking read that 2x and see if you don't laugh. its outfuckingrageous.
I don't know what else to say I am just re-quoting the same shit.
At the end of this:
I like this forum.
this thread is bullshit.
I obviously don't know if it's true or not, but I tend to believe what Jon says because I have never seen him bullshit about anything. I don't think wickedfire is worth that much, but it is worth more than the average forum because of the volume that the members do. There are idiots everywhere that pay too much or ask too much.
This is just the opposite of the prdeal thing.
Also look at the shit that is bought on DP and Sitepoint everyday for way too much, this is just a much larger scale.
This is just the opposite of the prdeal thing.
Also look at the shit that is bought on DP and Sitepoint everyday for way too much, this is just a much larger scale.
lercho: there is nothing Jon can do to convince you, so you either believe him or not and stop posting shit like that. He didn't sell the forum, he got an offer for $16m, end of story and move on with your life.
No point in sitting here chatting bullshit over something that doesn't really matter one way or the other for us users
No point in sitting here chatting bullshit over something that doesn't really matter one way or the other for us users
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