Shifting the burden of proof to internet commentators in debate will not change what he has done, and what he will do.
Obama To Venture Into The Private Sector In Unprecedented Fashion
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Most people against the bailout don't have a clue. Of the ones that do have a clue, some of those actually want the US to fail, which is why they are against intervention.
There may never be a more perfect time than now to bring down the evil US empire.
If I was a jihadist I'd be beating off to the prospect that the US might just stand and watch their entire financial sector go down. This would be a much more efficient means to bring down the west than anything I could muster with an AK-47 or even a few hijacked planes.
I don't feel like going over all the same shit for the 1 millionth time.
I will just say that for anyone here who thinks the US has a problem with Socialism, the Canadians, Australians, and UK folks on this board think you are ridiculous. Ask them.
For those of you now so mad about what has happened / is happening, you didn't work hard enough last year. Period. In the reality I live in, there were / are only two viable choices and the better one won.
I watched my tax dollars fund things I fucking hated like the Iraq war for the better part of the last decade. Nothing Obama does is going to piss me off like what the Bush administration did.
The OPs point is about ideological principles such as the government's interference into the private sector. I no longer care about what I perceive as ideology, I care about what I perceive as pragmatism.
I will just say that for anyone here who thinks the US has a problem with Socialism, the Canadians, Australians, and UK folks on this board think you are ridiculous. Ask them.
For those of you now so mad about what has happened / is happening, you didn't work hard enough last year. Period. In the reality I live in, there were / are only two viable choices and the better one won.
I watched my tax dollars fund things I fucking hated like the Iraq war for the better part of the last decade. Nothing Obama does is going to piss me off like what the Bush administration did.
The OPs point is about ideological principles such as the government's interference into the private sector. I no longer care about what I perceive as ideology, I care about what I perceive as pragmatism.
The problem is, when people leave behind principles for pragmatism, that is starting down the road to serfdom.
The Illustrated Road to Serfdom
Ideas matter. Ideas about liberty, peace etc. matter. Once they are sacrificed for some pragmatic goal, there isn't much left.
i dont have a problem with Obama criticism, i think its valuable actually. But I do think that under the current system there were two choices and I'm taking the evil I know (boardering on too much government interfernce) vs the evil I don't (that which I perceive as incompetence and overt malice).
I actually do appreciate people who vocalize their criticism because it keeps things as honest as they can be.
I know. To be honest, I read more of your posts and now I get where you are coming from. And we're pretty much on the same page.
"credit default derivatives, collateralized mortgage obligations and exotic interest rate swaps" are all just fancy means of claiming a debt as though it was a real paid in full cash producing asset. Lots of very smart people in the finance sector spend lots of time trying to hide debt under new terms. Doesn't matter at all to the general public. Or to me or to you, most likely.
This is the best argument for government intervention into the private sector? Because the Canadians think it's great?
I'll pass - we dominate Canada economically. In fact, we dominate practically everyone economically, with the exception of Japan. And I don't even count China, which has to depend on absurd currency manipulation to stay afloat.
Look at the CRA passed in 1977. Then look at the crazy revisions in 1995. Then look at the dedication of 1 Trillion Dollars to subprime mortgages. Look at Glass-Steagall.
Who did all that? THE GOVERNMENT. Government fucked our economy, and now the same people that fuckin wrecked our economy are gonna fix it...by controlling more? That's one giant fucking setup, and if you can't see that, drink some more of the Koolaid.
I'll tell you what I see - these starry-eyed Big Gov-kids who believe so firmly in the evils of capitalism they sabotaged it in order to remake the U.S. This whole thing was fucking planned, and if I hear one more person say 'deregulation' caused this shit, I'll probably flip. That's the lamest talking point in the book.
We don't want to be Australia, or Canada, or the U.K. We've got one of the most powerful economic engines for a reason - because government keeps its nose out of our business. Because government isn't giving you a pacifier from cradle to grave. It's a rough world, but if you make it, at least you made it on your own instead of a place like France where every lazy asshole gets a check just for existing.
I'll keep my America. Those that love Canada and other welfare states should check them out, cause we're not changing anytime soon - not if the American people have anything to say about it.
And by the way, whoever loftily said they want to discard ideological discussions, what do you think Obama and his ilk are? Ideologues - we all are. You're one. I'm one. And I've got decades of economic innovation and progress on my side. You people have got double digit unemployment and pathetic economic growth on yours.
Once again you spit da truth BIG TIME bro, but unless the fuckin sheeples wake up and take back America... well, we're all fucked.
They killed Kennedy for a reason!
If you're not with us, you're against us.
If you dissent, you're unAmerican.
If you don't like it, leave.
WHERE THE FUCK HAVE WE HEARD ALL THAT SHIT BEFORE EH.
Fuck all of you. America was built by smart-assed contrarian liberal thinkers who didn't let any fascist demagoguery get in their way. They didn't sit around whining about how things 'should' be, they went out and created their republic in the face of horrible odds.
Like it or not, the United States is NOT the center of the Universe, and is now in serious and rapid decline as an empire. It is what it is. DEAL WITH IT OR BE LEFT IN THE DUST.
Obsolete thinking frosts my shorts.
Thomas Jefferson FTW.
If you dissent, you're unAmerican.
If you don't like it, leave.
WHERE THE FUCK HAVE WE HEARD ALL THAT SHIT BEFORE EH.
Fuck all of you. America was built by smart-assed contrarian liberal thinkers who didn't let any fascist demagoguery get in their way. They didn't sit around whining about how things 'should' be, they went out and created their republic in the face of horrible odds.
Like it or not, the United States is NOT the center of the Universe, and is now in serious and rapid decline as an empire. It is what it is. DEAL WITH IT OR BE LEFT IN THE DUST.
Obsolete thinking frosts my shorts.
Thomas Jefferson FTW.
I've laid out facts. I've laid out decades of economic growth. What do you have? Nothing.
Nothing you can say will change the fact that France routinely has double digit unemployment, or that their economies are stagnant at best. Nothing you say will change the fact that since its inception, America has been about individuals NOT relying on anybody.
I don't want a fucking handout from the government. I'd rather starve in the gutter. And I'm not impressed with anyone who can't make it.
I'll say it again - if you Big Gov-kids are jizzing your pants over big welfare checks and free healthcare, why aren't you on the next plane to Sweden or France? What's so great about America? We're just another country. If life is so awesome over there, what are you waiting for? Hell, I'd be on the next flight.
There's a reason we won WWII. There's a reason we can project our military might across the globe. There's a reason we're constantly creating new vacines and cures. There's a reason America was the land immigrants longingly spoke of where 'anyone can make it'. And you know why that is? Because it's a level fucking playing field, where the ONLY variable that is not constant is YOU. If you have a good work ethic and elbow grease, you'll dominate. If you sit on your ass and wait for Big Gov to pamper you and change your diaper, you fall behind.
And now we have to listen to these people whine and complain and try to drag us down? Almost every single country in the world has a HUGE government role. America is one of the ONLY ones that doesn't. And now they want to crush the last light of entrepeneurial spirit, the last haven?
It's not happening. There's a reason we drive SUV's while Italians are squashed into matchboxes. There's a reason 'poor' people here have cell phones, flat-screens, and can afford copious amounts of weed. It's called government staying the FUCK out of our business. And its gonna stay that way.
BAHAHAHAAAA!!
It's called "borrowing for consumption", and it's why we're up to our necks in debt!
Here, have another loan so you can pay your mortgage, SUV payments. college loan and cell phone bills...
Would you like an explanation? It's thread jacking, but I will oblige. Or maybe we can start a new thread?
That's not why we have a higher standard of living. The amount of people who took out irresponsible loans is less than 20%.
But since you brought it up, do you know who lowered the lending standards so we could take out more debt?
THE GOVERNMENT.
Note: Guerilla, feel free to discuss it here. I don't consider it thread jacking since its relevant to the topic.
Yup. Lowered lending standards, abolished regulation and oversight, created huge tax loopholes for big business, in fact, that bad old goobermint just got right the fuck out of the way of free enterprise altogether, didn't it?
ROFL!
No, it got IN the way - that's the entire point. You have studied the historical origins of this financial crisis, right?
There's nothing wrong with regulation when it's necessary. Make sure products are safe, make sure there's no thieving going on, etc..
But forcing banks to give loans to bums? Forcing them to give loans to scam artists? And then to give those loans the fucking Gold Standard guarantee of the Federal Government? That's really getting IN the way.
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