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- Thread starter mattseh
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Ohhh, come on. PHP isn't that bad. The worst thing about PHP is a fucken retard with no understanding of basic fundamentals can still write usable code. Have you ever taken some of the PHP scripts out there, and put the error level up to E_ALL on them? Holy shit!
If you're a self disciplined developer though, then PHP is a pretty decent choice for web apps. Especially if you ever plan to hire others to help with development. For example, where exactly am I going to find a good Perl developer who's available? I miss Perl now.
If you're a self disciplined developer though, then PHP is a pretty decent choice for web apps. Especially if you ever plan to hire others to help with development. For example, where exactly am I going to find a good Perl developer who's available? I miss Perl now.
Ohhh, come on. PHP isn't that bad. The worst thing about PHP is a fucken retard with no understanding of basic fundamentals can still write usable code. Have you ever taken some of the PHP scripts out there, and put the error level up to E_ALL on them? Holy shit!
If you're a self disciplined developer though, then PHP is a pretty decent choice for web apps. Especially if you ever plan to hire others to help with development. For example, where exactly am I going to find a good Perl developer who's available? I miss Perl now.
It misses so much though.
Coming from python after 2 minutes thought:
list comprehensions.
threading.
decent packaging of modules.
virtualenv.
non-fucked types.
So, what language is Mr. Atwood in favor of? As cool as Ruby is, I think that Python is clearly the most sensible scripting language and the best choice for mass adoption.
Then again, if instead of promoting a better language, you just shut up and work, then you can keep all of the crappier code in PHP and experience less stress when using 3rd party modules in your chosen language.
Then again, if instead of promoting a better language, you just shut up and work, then you can keep all of the crappier code in PHP and experience less stress when using 3rd party modules in your chosen language.
Ohhh, come on. PHP isn't that bad. The best thing about PHP is a fucken retard with no understanding of basic fundamentals can still write usable code. Have you ever taken some of the PHP scripts out there, and put the error level up to E_ALL on them? Holy shit!
If you're a self disciplined developer though, then PHP is a pretty decent choice for web apps. Especially if you ever plan to hire others to help with development. For example, where exactly am I going to find a good Perl developer who's available? I miss Perl now.
fixed
Considering that StackOverflow is written in ASP.NET probably C#.
Oh god, what if StackOverflow is written in VisualBasic.
The thought alone makes me want to go scrub myself with steel wool in a blisteringly hot shower.
"the shame wont wash off"
The off-putting thing about PHP to me is that the community is so stratified across time and legacy. It reminds me of Javascript. You may be looking for some modern edge Node stuff but run into a 1999 DHTML Javascript tutorial on W3Schools.
But, ultimately, the people that berate others for the tools they use are far more insufferable than any programming language will ever be.
Keep building things, stay hungry, keep learning, and your needs and tools and preferences may change over time. They may not. Life is short and who cares.
But, ultimately, the people that berate others for the tools they use are far more insufferable than any programming language will ever be.
Keep building things, stay hungry, keep learning, and your needs and tools and preferences may change over time. They may not. Life is short and who cares.
Yeah, I thought C# too, but pimping a M$ product just seems stupid to me. If you want to encourage mass adoption, an open-source, cross-platform, low barrier to entry tool is the way to go (PHP is obviously the perfect choice given those criteria).
i wont say PHP is the best programming lang to code XYZ feature/project in, but it is the best programming language to prototype in quickly and validate ideas for the most part if your an opportunist.
Lets face it, its pretty much on every fucking hosting plan known to man so the opportunity to pick it up is high, has fuck ton of tutorials on the web ( more then any other ) so if you want to code any idea imaginable you can find it online already, is very fucking forgiving of noob coding methods so you don't need to know anything about OOP and such, and the ease of actually getting it online is above all others.
To give you an example, I have high respect for python after working with Mattseh and Ruby from what I have seen Dchuk make as well. However, I have a feeling both of them have came from a background where they learned about proper computer science and programming methods in a higher education setting, which is great. I on the other hand, did not and picked up programming as a means to "get shit done" on my own after learning HTML/CSS and online marketing.
With that, I can code circles around most people when it comes to testing out ideas and shit and getting prototypes built, but this is like being the fastest "pecker" when it comes to typing and going up against someone that can actually type with both hands.
I've tried out Perl, Ruby, and Python and I can tell you, its mildy hard to find a lot of hosting shared hosting companies that offer these out of the box ( well, maybe not Perl ) and if you want to get this shit on the web and echo'ing out code, well be prepared to fool with CGI and other shit that is no where near as easy as dropping in <?php echo $XXX; ?> into your html pretty much. Also, the amount of example code and tutorials is LOL'able at best with Ruby and Python compared to PHP. If I need a solution tonight for something in PHP, I can find it with Google in less then 30 minutes. It will take me several days for the same thing with Ruby and Python if you even find it.
Oh, and connecting to databases and shit most times requires installing gems and libs on your own while most PHP configs are already SQLite and MySQL out of the box.
I still can not pick up Ruby or Python, and I am sure most opportunist like myself have a hard time with it as well compared to PHP. The guy flipping burgers at McDonalds full time with a big idea will more then likely get it accomplished on his own with PHP then with Ruby or Python for most statistical purposes. This is why I like PHP, for me at least and my situation.. it gets shit done and gets the MVP done and up and tested. Once I have a winner, I'll pay a real coder to program it in the best lang. for the situation Im in.
Lets face it, its pretty much on every fucking hosting plan known to man so the opportunity to pick it up is high, has fuck ton of tutorials on the web ( more then any other ) so if you want to code any idea imaginable you can find it online already, is very fucking forgiving of noob coding methods so you don't need to know anything about OOP and such, and the ease of actually getting it online is above all others.
To give you an example, I have high respect for python after working with Mattseh and Ruby from what I have seen Dchuk make as well. However, I have a feeling both of them have came from a background where they learned about proper computer science and programming methods in a higher education setting, which is great. I on the other hand, did not and picked up programming as a means to "get shit done" on my own after learning HTML/CSS and online marketing.
With that, I can code circles around most people when it comes to testing out ideas and shit and getting prototypes built, but this is like being the fastest "pecker" when it comes to typing and going up against someone that can actually type with both hands.
I've tried out Perl, Ruby, and Python and I can tell you, its mildy hard to find a lot of hosting shared hosting companies that offer these out of the box ( well, maybe not Perl ) and if you want to get this shit on the web and echo'ing out code, well be prepared to fool with CGI and other shit that is no where near as easy as dropping in <?php echo $XXX; ?> into your html pretty much. Also, the amount of example code and tutorials is LOL'able at best with Ruby and Python compared to PHP. If I need a solution tonight for something in PHP, I can find it with Google in less then 30 minutes. It will take me several days for the same thing with Ruby and Python if you even find it.
Oh, and connecting to databases and shit most times requires installing gems and libs on your own while most PHP configs are already SQLite and MySQL out of the box.
I still can not pick up Ruby or Python, and I am sure most opportunist like myself have a hard time with it as well compared to PHP. The guy flipping burgers at McDonalds full time with a big idea will more then likely get it accomplished on his own with PHP then with Ruby or Python for most statistical purposes. This is why I like PHP, for me at least and my situation.. it gets shit done and gets the MVP done and up and tested. Once I have a winner, I'll pay a real coder to program it in the best lang. for the situation Im in.
Not that I care since I'm an OSS developer, but C# is an open standard designed by Microsoft.
The thing I find sad is that .Net and C# are fucking amazing. Like, so, so good, yet many coders will ignore them completely due to their blind hatred of Microsoft even though they cost nothing to use and the perceived costs of running on Windows (not that you have to) are basically negligible if you're making any money at all. The language and framework are very mature, extremely capable, and very very fast. StackOverflow is also run by a team of really good developers. It's built on C# (not VB, you coding redneck) and has been tuned to the nth degree under the hood. Also makes use of Redis iirc. On top of that, Microsoft give a level of care and attention to their development community that Apple don't even come close to. Hopefully as time goes forward, the mistakes of 20 years ago will stop haunting Microsoft and they'll regain some of the developer mindshare they lost.
Microsoft fucked up with Visual InterDev 6, turned me off so much I switched to PHP (errhhhhhhhhhhh gawd what was I thinking) but they have fixed a lot of issues with the development community that they had circa 2000.
With Windows Phone 7/8, Azure, Windows 7/8, VS2010/12, Office365, etc, I have no reason to use anything that isn't produced by Microsoft.
I assume that comment was directed at me, since no else mentioned VB.
VB was shit when it was developed and its shit now. If people want to use it, go nuts, none of my business. Some people also want to drink elephant semen, I fucking wouldn't but hey, what ever floats your boat.
But I'll put my blind hatred of VB aside for a moment. The reason I wouldn't recommend people use VB over say C# or even F# is that it continually being treated as the red headed step child of the .NET family. While its getting some love from Microsoft is still gets ignored for the most part. Pinvoke is a perfect example of this.
But hay in the end use what ever, VB, C#, Ruby, Perl, Ada, Python, Java, lolcode, etc etc etc.
Apropos of nothing, running shit on MS doesn't cost anything these days. You can get tons of free shit from Microsoft if your a BizSpark member which any one can join.
Yeah my redneck comment was just a joke. VB(.Net) sucks (IMHO) and I'd never recommend it for beginners as I feel it's more of legacy language these days. I'm sure Microsoft would happily let it go if all of the existing VB developers moved on to C# and other languages. I develop everything with C# myself these days.
Visual Interdev is sooo old school I'd completely forgotten about it until you mentioned it just now. Back then I was using Dreamweaver I think? My first Microsoft IDE was Visual C++ 6 and I remember being really impressed when the next version came out and had syntax highlighting! Wow!
Visual Interdev is sooo old school I'd completely forgotten about it until you mentioned it just now. Back then I was using Dreamweaver I think? My first Microsoft IDE was Visual C++ 6 and I remember being really impressed when the next version came out and had syntax highlighting! Wow!
I can't see why Microsoft would keep the language alive just because people are to lazy to learn something better.
It wouldn't be the first time that Microsoft gave the finger to the development community and killed a language that people liked and use.
I suspect that they wont let it die simply because it's Bill Gate's baby. Microsoft is paying homage to their king.