LLC and S Corp DOES NOT provide the same type of PROTECTION

redmonkey

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Oct 26, 2008
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I was doing some research and found this thread. Apparently, Chelsire is somewhat correct.

Ah so you're not qualified, just like the rest of us. ;) When I form entities I have almost exclusively used LLC's so I'm trying to understand why someone would use an S-Corp when LLC's provide better protection, pass-through income, and the tax advantages that come with it.

I have no doubt that S-corps are good from a tax standpoint but do they actually provide as good or better protection than an LLC? Sure an S-Corp owner gets the protection a shareholder would get, but what about contractual disputes? What about the debts of the company, does a S-Corp protect you from those?

Watch this:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkyLEclCXk0]Asset Protection Planning by Jacob Stein (Part 8 of 17) - YouTube[/ame]
 


My accountant said that I save more on taxes as an S-Corp. So I guess this guy ^^^ is fucking wrong.
 
While I know everyone here is a legal expert due to the number of people on WickedFire that have mugshots online, and have felonies on their records, maybe it'd be prudent to have one of our legal minds chime in.

inb4 mont7071
inb4 aaronklaw
 
Most people filing LLC will have their veil pierced extremely easily, especially since most use online services with general agreements. Doesn't make too much a difference at that point.
 
I use a LLC elected as an Scorp which is operating as a DBA which leases all its equipment from a shell company that is loosely tied to terrorism.

/thread
 
While I know everyone here is a legal expert due to the number of people on WickedFire that have mugshots online, and have felonies on their records, maybe it'd be prudent to have one of our legal minds chime in.

inb4 mont7071
inb4 aaronklaw

^^^ This.

I'm a Nevada asset protection attorney in my day job, so I'll chime in. There are two different issues being thrown around with the LLC: taxation and protection. They are not related at all. WellGrounded and mgrant are correct in that you can choose how your LLC is taxed. How the entity is taxed depends on how many owners there are. Your choices are: (1) disregarded, (2) partnership or (3) corporation. You can read up on that here:

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Limited-Liability-Company-(LLC)

Regarding asset protection, there are two types of liabilities you have to think about - inside liability and outside liability. Inside liability is one coming from the operation of the LLC (Ryan Eagle comes to mind...) Outside liability would be if you are driving your car, wreck and kill someone (and it's your fault).

The LLC that is set up and run properly separates the inside and outside liabilities. A LLC problem should not reach to your assets and the personal problem should not reach to the LLC's assets. A good lawyer will try to show that you did not set up and run the LLC properly to break down this separation.

To keep the separation up for inside liability you need two things to work in your favor: (1) timing, (2) proper money flow/formalities. The timing has to deal with what is commonly known as "fraudulent conveyance" or "fraudulent transfer" laws. In essence, the law does not allow you to move assets from the LLC to you personally to avoid LLC liabilities (think Ryan Eagle again). If you can put a face with the "threat" it is probably too late as far as timing goes. Set up things right when the seas are calm and you can weather the storm. The money flow/formalities has to do with keeping separate accounts for the business that do not pay for personal expenses, etc. and having a good operating agreement, insurance, etc.

To keep the separation up for outside liability you need the same two items as above (timing and money flow/formalities), but the other concern is whether a person suing you personally can take your ownership in the LLC. This is where charging orders come in. A charging order is a directive by a judge in a lawsuit that the person suing you can intercept any distributions of cash coming from the LLC to you personally. This would include a salary or payment of a dividend/profit distribution. The charging order, in most states, is the "exclusive remedy" a creditor has if the creditor wants to satisfy a judgment with your LLC assets unless the creditor's attorney can pierce the LLC veil. So, a critical thing is what the charging order statute says in the state the lawsuit is. Nevada's is solid.

There are a bunch of nuances with this area of the law. One question I'll answer now is that it does not make sense for someone who lives outside of Nevada to get a Nevada LLC. In all likelihood, if you live and are sued in California, CA's law will apply to the lawsuit and charging order regardless of whether you have a Nevada, LLC or not.

Most of the noise in the asset protection area is pure crap, so be careful with "YouTube hero" Charlatans. The law gives plenty of ammo to creditors to take you down if you screw around with this stuff.

TL;DR version: you're screwed Ryan Eagle...

inb4 mont7071
inb4 aaronklaw

Please do not PM me looking for free advice. I won't respond...
 
I have an LLC, it's just me in the company.. For S-Corp, if you make a decent amount of $ over the average for your field of work, you don't have to pay the 15% self employment tax on that amount. So if you made $100,000 and a web designer position averages $50k, then you don't have to pay 15% SE tax on that remaining $50k (saving $7,500).

Don't take my word for it though, I've had a jackass of a CPA.
 
S Corp is a tax election. You can do subchapter S election for a C Corp or LLC. With an S corp you have significant tax advantages, my firm is set up as a PLLC with subchapter S election. That being said, it depends on what you want...anonymity or tax savings. There are a few exceptions in the tax code, but if you do a subchapter s election you usually wont be able to use trusts to mask who owns the company. That being said, there are states that don't require you to report who is a Member of the company, but when it comes to filing under the tax code its going to be easy to find out who you are, whether you've elected under subchapter S or not since you'll have to get an EIN.


So if you're talking about doing a subchapter s election on a C Corp, then there may be tax advantages as well as protecting yourself as a mere shareholder than as a member of the company. You can accomplish the same with an LLP, however, with a delaware company serving as the "holding" company aka manager and general partner, and you serving as the limited partner.

I usually defer to accountants when it comes to S election, since its more of an accounting thing.

and I agree with esquire above, it doesn't really make sense to get a Nevada LLC for "tax" benefits since you'd have to be a resident. They do offer anonymity though.
 
S Corp is a tax election. You can do subchapter S election for a C Corp or LLC. With an S corp you have significant tax advantages, my firm is set up as a PLLC with subchapter S election. That being said, it depends on what you want...anonymity or tax savings. There are a few exceptions in the tax code, but if you do a subchapter s election you usually wont be able to use trusts to mask who owns the company. That being said, there are states that don't require you to report who is a Member of the company, but when it comes to filing under the tax code its going to be easy to find out who you are, whether you've elected under subchapter S or not since you'll have to get an EIN.


So if you're talking about doing a subchapter s election on a C Corp, then there may be tax advantages as well as protecting yourself as a mere shareholder than as a member of the company. You can accomplish the same with an LLP, however, with a delaware company serving as the "holding" company aka manager and general partner, and you serving as the limited partner.

I usually defer to accountants when it comes to S election, since its more of an accounting thing.

and I agree with esquire above, it doesn't really make sense to get a Nevada LLC for "tax" benefits since you'd have to be a resident. They do offer anonymity though.

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protection is funny.
i was told by a lawyer at a very large firm that no one is safe anywhere anymore.

i believe him
 
I'm glad aaronklaw joined the thread. I agree witheverything he said. Most asset protection clients come in to see me wanting anonimity. I have a different take on that angle of asset protection though. I say you have nothing to hide if you do asset protection right. Use a LLC, asset protection trust, go offshore, etc. and feel free to have your name on everything. The laws are there to protect you if it is done right.

Judges look on you in a much better light also if you show him/her that you never operated "in the shadows" and used the law as it is written to protect your assets. Clients usually have a much better outcome when they take this approach in my experience.