importance of college GPA

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Does not matter unless you are going to grad school, scholarships, some loans, or if you ever plan to return to a school.
It may have a small role in your first post grad job but after that it all relies of previous work experience and the fact that you have obtained a degree of some form.
I'd just say stay at or above a 2.5 and you'll be good.
 


It's ridiculous to justify your own laziness by calling people who do well academically "pussies".

Good grades mean two things to me:
- You're brilliant whether you work hard or not but at least have the discipline to show up when it matters.
- You're of middling intelligence but work your ass off.

Neither of which tell me much about ability to be a good employee or successful entrepreneur but it's still a good filtering mechanism to get rid of a high proportion of mental or social retards.

Bad grades also signify a couple possible things to me:
- You're intellectually challenged and I shouldn't waste my time.
- You are arrogant and lack discipline, AND/OR
- You lack the emotional and social intelligence to understand there is a competitive landscape out there and there are rules to the game.

Anyone who goes to college for more than a year and can't pull a respectable GPA has no place arguing that poor grades are defensible. You have one or more of the three "poor grades" traits I just mentioned or you are lazy and have no concept of opportunity cost (i.e. gtfo and do something productive).

Obviously, this means little to people 10 yrs out of school who have otherwise been successful. But they are the exception rather than the rule.

I will never consider interviewing a recent graduate with poor grades unless they are savvy enough to get in front of me before I see their resume -- which means it would be on the basis of networking or accomplishment. Without that, 99% of the time it is a waste of my time.
 
thank you for that

i hate ass wipes who think theyre smart, when really all they can do is retain information rather than think for themselves.



This is what.. for years I sat around and listened to asswipes spew out "test facts" that enabled them to do good on tests and make good grades, but if you got them into a conversation, didn't understand what they were talking about.

People who are really smart (not clever, but intellegent) synthesize information instead of just regurgitating it.. the really intelligent ones tend to be somewhat eccentric.. hire the weirdos.. not the clones that you may feel more comfortable with..

We used to call them "Brownies".. brown-nosers who had their nose up the professors ass.. and made good grades.. but were basically empty shells.. couldnt think their way out of a paper bag.. fuck a GPA..

again, so much of it is politics..
 
Work hard on your AM shit -- you don't need a job.

Bingo-bango. Be the hire-er, not the hire-ee.

I hire smart people. Not the fancy dressers or the guys with the snappy comebacks, not the fast-talkers with 20 letter of rec telling me what great pizzles they are, not the 4.0 whizzes unless they also pass my litmus test.

You can tell who the smart ones are. You're interviewing and the conversation brushes on something which at its core requires a definite, unambiguous philosophical position, and they are able to articulate that position cleanly and without descending into muddled or imflammatory religious rhetoric or partisan politics. Just matter-of-fact this is where I'm coming from on that worldview, and what else would you like to know?

They are usually not the best looking people. They often dress plainly but neatly. Their smiles are genuine and their ideas are not cookie-cutter.

Hire the smart ones.
 
You're interviewing and the conversation brushes on something which at its core requires a definite, unambiguous philosophical position, and they are able to articulate that position cleanly and without descending into muddled or imflammatory religious rhetoric or partisan politics.

If I got asked a religious or political question during a job interview, I wouldn't be accepting a job offer even if they extended one. Furthermore, in today's sue-happy world interviewing questions in that area are a great way to get your ass sued via prejudice/discrimination.

As for the OP:

  • If you want employers to be recruiting and fighting for YOU, then make damned sure you have an awesome GPA
  • If you want to be hunting down employers and fighting for the limited number of jobs out there, settle for a mediocre job and elbow your way around the market with the other hundreds of thousands of college grads with mediocre GPAs and no job
Say what you want about GPA not mattering - if its good enough then employees will be fighting for you. And in addition, you want every competitive advantage you can get in a market like this.

Don't sell yourself short. Work hard.
 
If I got asked a religious or political question during a job interview, I wouldn't be accepting a job offer even if they extended one. Furthermore, in today's sue-happy world interviewing questions in that area are a great way to get your ass sued via prejudice/discrimination.

Didn't say I asked questions about religion or politics. Said when we get to a place in the convo that requires a definitive worldview, the applicant can state their worldview clearly without resorting to religious or political syntax.

Most people in the middle of the bellcurve can't do that.

Next! :xmas-smiley-016:
 
I've interviewed a lot of job applicants - hell, around 50 just in the last 2-3 months. I have never, *ever* had religion or politics come up, unprompted or otherwise.

Not sure what your interviewing technique is, but something is whack.
 
i think that you may be missing his point.. it has nothing at all to do with religion or politics. It is about people not giving the standard, cookie-cutter answers to questions.

I read somewhere.. I think it was some guy from Microsoft.. talking about how they identify really smart people. He said that they invariably have some sort of eccentricity.
 
Don't let anyone yank your chain. All else being equal, if your resume says you graduated summa cum laude with a 3.95 GPA, it's a lot more impressive to potential employers than listing a 2.4 GPA. Also, that is something that can never be taken from you.
 
Your degree can mean nothing, hell ive got a degree in Political science, now i'm "Online Marketing Manager" your degree doesnt mean sheeot, its all about the experience on the interwebs
 
credentials.jpg


show this to 'em and you're golden.
anyone who doesn't recognize it as valid isn't worth working for.
 
I know a lot of people swear by GPA, but if you can tell a good story and build a truly exceptional resume/application in other ways, even a crappy GPA will be overlooked by almost anyone, including top university admissions departments.

How do I know this? I cared a lot in high school, but when I got to college, I got this crazy idea to burn bridges - I thought that if I focused on learning and not on doing the busy work, I would ultimately force myself away from the traditional paths I knew I might be tempted to take (like i-banking or consulting). Sometimes, I'd even do the papers and not turn them in. It drove the professors nuts. They'd ask, "Why didn't you do the paper?" and I'd hold it up and tell them that I had, I just hadn't bothered to turn it in.

A couple years down the road (and with a genuinely awful GPA), I decided to transfer. No school I applied to was less than 15th on the US News rankings, and I still had no trouble getting in. It was the same story with jobs, even for many that wanted much someone much more qualified than me.

Yes, a great GPA lets you be lazy, but not using GPA as a crutch requires you to be a little more strategic when you're figuring out how to get accepted or get a job. You get really creative about getting recommendations, connecting with the interviewers, and spinning your personal history.

I should say, though, that this depends a little on where you're going to school If you're at University of Phoenix online and you graduate with a 2.0, there's very little you'll be able to do to convince people you're not completely retarded. On the other hand, if you attended a top 10 or 20 school and just didn't bother, a lot of people will make the assumption that you're eccentric or "too smart to need grades", etc. There's no sense in discouraging that stereotype.

One more thing: If your GPA is less than 3.0-3.3 or so, don't bother listing it for potential employers. If they really, really care, they'll ask to get a transcript, but I've never had that happen.

IN SUMMARY - GPA really doesn't matter for most situations, but it DOES matter that you bring something good to the table. If you don't have a strong GPA, dissect the opportunity and figure out a way to look even better than the sea of 4.0 GPAs - they're all too common, anyway.
 
your college GPA matters so much less than your relevant industry experience its not even funny. That experience turns into connections, and jobs are largely about who you know.

I went to an extremely competitive University in an extremely competitive major and my grades were ok but I got much better opportunities because of who I knew from my jobs during college.

Watch how far a good to great GPA does without relevant industry experience. Your only shot at that point is grad school.
 
stef,

That's great you made a lower GPA work when you were right out of school, congrats.

But for most people, they just will not even get in the door and have that chance for a "creative" interview.

When I worked in consulting that was the case, and where I am now, that's still the case.

GPA doesn't help you stand out. Not even close. It just helps you pass the bar to make it past the 15 second resume review that moves you from the stack of 100 to the stack of 50. I used to throw resumes from U.S. News Top 20 schools away every day. Sure they're probably smart kids, but still too many of them.

To be fair, no one should ever be hired *because* of their GPA. But I have no problem rejecting them because of it. Like I said before, to get around that filter -- and it is likely to be there for any highly competitive prestige job -- one must be 2 for 3: stand-out highly accomplished, *very* creative, or well networked.

Having all three plus a hell of a good story will absolutely trump a bad GPA, but why make it harder than it needs to be? Besides, all else equal, the kid with the better grades will still win out nearly every time.
 
^^^ 2nded.

As I said, at my current job in consulting, we threw out piles upon piles of Harvard/Yale/Penn/Columbia applicants - only took the cream of the crop. High GPAs were a must, relevant work experience a must, extracurricular activities impressive on top of that.
 
^^^ 2nded.
..only took the cream of the crop. High GPAs were a must, relevant work experience a must, extracurricular activities impressive on top of that.

Some people are looking at this from a really limited perspective. You have to get over the assumption that you must apply to get a job offer. In general, the better the job, the better off you'll be finding an alternate way to get to the decision makers (whether that's an HR person or some kind of director/VP).

I'm not talking about creative interviews, I'm talking about going around the resume stack completely. The "stack" is for suckers, and there are only a few cases where I've ever just submitted my resume.

I've gotten great offers at consulting firms, investment firms, and major exchanges, but I've never once submitted a resume or cover letter to one. I went through a brief period where I decided I wanted a good job in finance, despite the GPA trashing I had done earlier, and oddly enough, it seemed easier than the hoops a lot of my friends had jumped through with several rounds of interviews and events.

Instead of sending over a resume, I made friends with people, got to know them in odd places (the internet makes this insanely simple), and generally used detective skills to make sure I never had to stand among the herd - because, as you guys said, a Harvard degree with great references and a 4.0 is not that uncommon in certain circles. Even if that's you, why risk blending in with all the others?

You can't wait on a chance to shine in an interview. I got to know one hiring manager through his grandmother, a polka enthusiast - and another through Everquest. In one case, an HR employee was trying to nail me down for a job I was starting to decide I didn't want, so I told him, "You know my GPA, right?" He laughed and told me that only matters if you end up in the stack on his desk.

If you're committed to doing things like everyone else - resumes, cover letters, and interviews - then yes, GPA will matter a little more.

If you use your head and a bit of basic human psychology, though, you can find tons of people who will happily fight to bring you on staff, so long as you seem like a bright, motivated person.
 
That's all fine and good. Like I said, creativity, other means of demonstrating accomplishment, and good networking will trump GPA every time -- *assuming* you know how to play the game. A lot of college-age people don't yet, and that's ok, it can be learned.

My point though is that anyone who can do what you've just illustrated, or hell anyone who has the skill set to be a good affiliate marketer, can keep a competitive GPA with very little effort. Why should any bright 18-yo reading this create more potential obstacles for him/herself?

I just think it's poor guidance to imply that being lazy is okay, because if you're exceptional you can overcome it later. That's really no different from the "Well, Bill Gates didn't need college..." argument that is all too common.
 
Depends if you care about being an employee and following the herd. If you are, worry about your grades. And good luck to you, seeing as grades everywhere are getting inflated, so it's getting harder and harder to stand out.

(unless you want to be a doctor or lawyer, vet or something - in which case, that's the only route)

If you don't it doesn't matter. Nobody has ever asked me about what grades I got at school or uni. What they really want to know is what sort of results you can get for them.

If you have started up, run and sold successful businesses (no matter how small) whilst still at school (or college), you are automatically in a different league to anyone else who just has paper qualifications.

Learn about how to make money, how to manage money, how to network, and how to persuade people to do what you want, and nobody will ever care about your GPA.

That's not an encouragement to be lazy and sit around smoking dope. It's an encouragement to focus on other stuff, beyond just what the school tells u is important.

As a real world example of this, I know a guy who was a really good developer, but couldn't get a job because he didn't have the right degree. So he made a sandwich board, summarising his skills, and stood outside one of the main train stations going into London at 0600 in the morning wearing it, handing out copies of his resume to anyone who was going through and showed an interest. One of those people was the chairman of a major bank, took his resume, and the next day he got a call from the head of HR, inviting him in for interview, and got a job. They were so impressed by his determination and originality, they didn't care about qualifications.


I've been thinking about this a lot recently, because I'm thinking about how I want my own kids educated when the time comes. I firmly believe that the entire education system is designed to do one thing. Turn out "useful citizens" who can go and work for the big employers or the government. That's why the schools don't focus on the really useful stuff, like people skills and financial management, because it wouldn't do the status quo too much good if everyone ended up being a savvy entrepreneur.
 
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