I Need Some Advice

[wiredniko]

It's funny how everyone around me does not understand that weird drive...or maybe it's a need to make money. To break away from the mold and command my own destiny.

This is the reason why I had to post this here. At least people here understand what most of us trying to accomplish...independence, self reliance, making money and working hard.

I have been working on a way to make it for three years now...off and on but mostly on. Last time I posted here was a year ago to the day. I needed a break from this place. I needed to unplug so I can forge my own path without getting stuck on the next big trend. (Not that I am a big poster or anything)

So here is the thing.

I have not made it. In all reality I have a handful of domains in various states of decomposition...which is fine...I have started a blog lately that is getting some good traction but it's still negative ROI.

I love coding. It's something I can do for hours. Unfortunately I graduated with my Computer Science degree December of 2001, right after 9/11. Finding a job was impossible for me at that time.

So through various odd jobs I ended up being a project manager.

Here is where I need advice
1. Do I remain a project manager and keep updating my blog hoping that one day I will make enough money to quit my main job and start funding the many ideas that I have that require money...or time that I cannot give?
2. Re-learn C++ (it's been 13 years), work on Open Source to get "experience" and try to code in my spare time, stop updating my blog...try to get a job in the programming field...and then use that experience to start a business that relates to coding
3. Use my PHP knowledge and create a big project site that would take me a year to lunch but possibly fail
4. Use my PHP knowledge and try to get a job....then do #2...even though putting up in my resume all the crazy non work shit I have done....or cannot be explained to the common recruiter (No sir, you see I used PHP to manipulate the date on this post to make it look like it was written today...then I grabbed their IP and pretended I live in the same city as them....with this one weird trick...)
5. Keep doing a job I hate and pay someone to implement my ideas...higher risk due to spending actual money 0% ROI is fine when you spend $50/mo on hosting but $8,000-10,000 kind of sucks
6. Quit work and just follow my dreams...even though I have three kids which has even more risk....
7. Re-learn C++, work on Open Source, create a blog about it...try to leverage money the blog could generate and get a job potentially...and then use the experience to start a business on my own that relates to coding

Not sure what I need to do here. I am trying to figure out...am I scared? Am I quitting? Should I just stick to one thing?

Thoughts? I am too emotionally invested to make the logical decision here...

 

[V@pr0N00b]

Support your family bro. If you would be happier working as a coder then go for a php job. Just show people your code, that's all they care about.

 

[vikingred]

Hey dude, not sure what direction you will go, but don't give up man. I believe in the drive for money and independence. Fucking sucks working for other people and just getting by. I read on here lotta people have to fail a buncha times before they hit their stride, so don't worry about the failures, just stay determined.

I think part of the answer is submersion and immersion in the areas you're interested in. Push yourself to learn more and be willing to follow a path that develops from your exploration. Diversify your income streams enough to to have a few different irons in the fire. Follow the big boys and see what works. Read a lot. It's tedious to read forum posts and all, but fuck there is a lot of good stuff on WF if you're willing to spend the time. Ask questions and get support.

Hang in there bro and never let another motherfucker shit on your dream. Stab them in the face with a fork.

 

[Jameel]

Keep making those book notes and sell them

 

[dchuk]

Two things:

1) It's always possible to redefine what "made it" means. Just because you're not housing a bunch of Maseratis in your garage doesn't mean you aren't successful. Success is entirely a personal definition.

2) If you're a really good coder, work on your business skills and start getting your consulting rate higher and higher (if you aren't already consulting, start). Use this increasing rate over time to build up a warchest so you can buy your own time back and then work on passion projects or projects that need a longer runway to succeed.

 

[mpbiz]

I was going to post some motivational stuff but decided to keep things real, because when it comes down to it those warm and fuzzy "we gonna make it!" feelings really don't do anything for you.

So here's my piece of advice:

Figure out what you want to do and then reverse engineer everything your top competitors are doing. Start doing exactly what they are doing AND figure out how you can do it better. There is always a way to do it better.

Go buy some clickbank products with lots of affiliates. Buy their products and upsells. Analyze their funnel. Analyze their emails they send you.

Then go look at offers that are on another level in terms of traffic. I'm talking offers running on weather.com

I guarantee you will find differences in the clickbank funnel vs. the weather.com funnel.

Create your own offer and test the clickbank funnel vs. the weather.com funnel. I bet I can tell you which one will win...

PS. I have purchased every cb product under the sun and tons of them don't even try to sell you additional shit via email follow up. You should be selling physical shit on the backend. If it's an info product sell a physical version. Plug that into your own merchant account and tell clickbank's 7% to suck your D brother.

 

[galacon]

Let's start at the beginning- you have a degree in CS and you are a PM, and you are making WHAT yearly?

Tell Me Now.

 

[BrandontheGreat]

You sound like you're overflowing in doubt.

Clear your mind, focus on one thing, and forget about everything else. Only then will you get the answer you're looking for.

You only get one shot at life - do what you want.

 

[Shack]

It's not so easy with a family, especially 3 kids. Keep the job, work on the blog. Programming is nice, but not easy. You can even do all of them. Get back from the work, update the blog a little bit, read some PHP maybe, but don't forget spending time with your family.

This is your problem here - family. Would you risk their lives too ? Hell, if you were alone, there was no problem, but with 3 kids ? I heard stories about guys working hard even with family and shit, but never quit their jobs.

 

[kryaa]

1. Keep your job and use that money to provide yourself and your family with a stable living environment without worry.

2. Take your "Blog time" and Freelance on the side instead. Use this as an opportunity to get more experience.

3. In the meantime, think about how to connect your current blog audience with a possible software project.

4. After x amount of time, use the money you have earned doing freelance programing to hire a team of cheap programmers to fasttrack your software business (apps, saas etc). Use your gained experience to oversee the project and correct mistakes.

5. Bank hard

6. Diversify.,

7. Quit Job.

8. Be happy.

 

[emp]

Fuck ... are you me?

PM me or contact me on skype if ya wanna chat

::emp::

 

[j0hnsmith]

5. Keep doing a job I hate and pay someone to implement my ideas...higher risk due to spending actual money 0% ROI is fine when you spend $50/mo on hosting but $8,000-10,000 kind of sucks

Identify what you really enjoy doing.

You say you're a project manager, that's a great skill to have, especially since you're a coder as well but do you enjoy it? If you do (and you've got ideas) then you can employ other people to code for you and you can be the one that pulls everything together. Many people who aren't coders get stuff built using coders from oDesk etc, you can do the same but have a greater say in how you want things done. The reality is that if you work full time and have a family you're not going to have much time to code, but you might have enough time oversee people working for you.

I imagine relearning c++ after 13 years is going to take time you don't have. Focus on php stuff, or perhaps learn Python/Ruby. There's loads of open source stuff in languages other than c++.

If you decide you enjoy coding more than project management there are plenty of jobs around, get one of them, don't worry about what the recruiters say. If you can code someone will hire you.

Keep doing a job I hate and pay someone to implement my ideas...higher risk due to spending actual money 0% ROI is fine when you spend $50/mo on hosting but $8,000-10,000 kind of sucks

Consider if you really have the time to implement your ideas, if you do have enough time make a project plan and implement it. If you don't have enough time, make a project plan of how to get others to do the legwork while you manage them.

Promise yourself that you won't be in the same situation in another three years time.

Good luck

 

[emp]

Yep, outsourcing is a good way to go, however, this requires $$$

On a small scale, I do this. (next to my 9-5)

Freelancing

Designing / implementing websites for local businesses.

Outsource design, HTML/CSS

I do CMS integration into WolfCMS (far easier to customize than WP) and some PHP scripting

Project management and client contact is all me.

So far, I spend around 20% of my revenue on outsourcing.

::emp::

 

[evgenktulu]

If you like coding, then why won't stick to it? If you think that your current projects are dull, then change your job.

 

[dmnEPC]

It's funny how everyone around me does not understand that weird drive...or maybe it's a need to make money. To break away from the mold and command my own destiny.

This is the reason why I had to post this here. At least people here understand what most of us trying to accomplish...independence, self reliance, making money and working hard.

I have been working on a way to make it for three years now...off and on but mostly on. Last time I posted here was a year ago to the day. I needed a break from this place. I needed to unplug so I can forge my own path without getting stuck on the next big trend. (Not that I am a big poster or anything)

So here is the thing.

I have not made it. In all reality I have a handful of domains in various states of decomposition...which is fine...I have started a blog lately that is getting some good traction but it's still negative ROI.

I love coding. It's something I can do for hours. Unfortunately I graduated with my Computer Science degree December of 2001, right after 9/11. Finding a job was impossible for me at that time.

So through various odd jobs I ended up being a project manager.

Here is where I need advice
1. Do I remain a project manager and keep updating my blog hoping that one day I will make enough money to quit my main job and start funding the many ideas that I have that require money...or time that I cannot give?
2. Re-learn C++ (it's been 13 years), work on Open Source to get "experience" and try to code in my spare time, stop updating my blog...try to get a job in the programming field...and then use that experience to start a business that relates to coding
3. Use my PHP knowledge and create a big project site that would take me a year to lunch but possibly fail
4. Use my PHP knowledge and try to get a job....then do #2...even though putting up in my resume all the crazy non work shit I have done....or cannot be explained to the common recruiter (No sir, you see I used PHP to manipulate the date on this post to make it look like it was written today...then I grabbed their IP and pretended I live in the same city as them....with this one weird trick...)
5. Keep doing a job I hate and pay someone to implement my ideas...higher risk due to spending actual money 0% ROI is fine when you spend $50/mo on hosting but $8,000-10,000 kind of sucks
6. Quit work and just follow my dreams...even though I have three kids which has even more risk....
7. Re-learn C++, work on Open Source, create a blog about it...try to leverage money the blog could generate and get a job potentially...and then use the experience to start a business on my own that relates to coding

Not sure what I need to do here. I am trying to figure out...am I scared? Am I quitting? Should I just stick to one thing?

Thoughts? I am too emotionally invested to make the logical decision here...

What is your definition of having made it? Is working for someone else part of that definition? Are you spending 80 to 95% of your time working on the things that will help you make it? Or are you spending that time making someone else? And last but not least, are you passionate about it? Is it consuming your life? if not, why not?

For real people, it takes minimum of 3 to 5 years just to break into a field. 5 to 7 to start to get comfortable. 5- 15 to make it. Again your definition of making might be very different from mine.

And last that not least. You shouldn't have to think about what you want to do to make it. If you really want it, and really believe in it, you will do the right thing. You wont have to decide. You wont need to stress over it. You will just do it.

With all that feel good shit out of the way. Spend all your time working on what you're passionate about. Spend all your money on that project. And then in your spare time figure out how you're going to pay for it. If it means you work for someone 8 hours a day, you work for yourself the other 16. Make damn sure you're doing more for yourself than for someone else. Cheat them by not giving them your all if that's what it takes. Sleep on the job, if that's what it takes. But when you're working on you, you're going 110%; you're working on the things that will actually get you where you want to go.

 

[eliquid]

It's very simple. You have no plan.

You don't have a plan b/c you don't even know what you really want.

Follow along with me:

It's funny how everyone around me does not understand that weird drive...or maybe it's a need to make money. To break away from the mold and command my own destiny.

It's not funny. It's sad. I know what you were going with on that but the first thing you need to do is find new friends that share your drive. Do this before anything else.

Living independently ( "break away from the mold and command my own destiny" ) means many things. You either want a shit ton of money and freedom to do what you want, or you want the freedom and don't mind making a reliable comfortable income. Both require freedom though. Keep this in mind going forward.

This is the reason why I had to post this here. At least people here understand what most of us trying to accomplish...independence, self reliance, making money and working hard.

OK, so I know you want the independence. Now I know you want self reliance and making money. Money will be factor now. Keep this in mind going forward.

I have been working on a way to make it for three years now...off and on but mostly on. Last time I posted here was a year ago to the day. I needed a break from this place. I needed to unplug so I can forge my own path without getting stuck on the next big trend. (Not that I am a big poster or anything)

I believe you on the working at it for 3 years, but it seems you have been working on the wrong things maybe. Success takes time, but if your still at ground zero, then your working on the wrong things. I think maybe not having a plan is your issue though, the right plan.

So here is the thing.

I have not made it. In all reality I have a handful of domains in various states of decomposition...which is fine...I have started a blog lately that is getting some good traction but it's still negative ROI.

Bingo. You have no focus which comes from not having a plan. See any recurring themes I keep bringing up here? Im not being harsh, these are your own words here. You need plan(s).

I love coding. It's something I can do for hours. Unfortunately I graduated with my Computer Science degree December of 2001, right after 9/11. Finding a job was impossible for me at that time.

Stop placing blame elsewhere. I wont go into detail about this and I hope you don't argue with me, but this is placing blame. Just stop it now.

So through various odd jobs I ended up being a project manager.

Here is where I need advice
1. Do I remain a project manager and keep updating my blog hoping that one day I will make enough money to quit my main job and start funding the many ideas that I have that require money...or time that I cannot give?
2. Re-learn C++ (it's been 13 years), work on Open Source to get "experience" and try to code in my spare time, stop updating my blog...try to get a job in the programming field...and then use that experience to start a business that relates to coding
3. Use my PHP knowledge and create a big project site that would take me a year to lunch but possibly fail
4. Use my PHP knowledge and try to get a job....then do #2...even though putting up in my resume all the crazy non work shit I have done....or cannot be explained to the common recruiter (No sir, you see I used PHP to manipulate the date on this post to make it look like it was written today...then I grabbed their IP and pretended I live in the same city as them....with this one weird trick...)
5. Keep doing a job I hate and pay someone to implement my ideas...higher risk due to spending actual money 0% ROI is fine when you spend $50/mo on hosting but $8,000-10,000 kind of sucks
6. Quit work and just follow my dreams...even though I have three kids which has even more risk....
7. Re-learn C++, work on Open Source, create a blog about it...try to leverage money the blog could generate and get a job potentially...and then use the experience to start a business on my own that relates to coding

Not sure what I need to do here. I am trying to figure out...am I scared? Am I quitting? Should I just stick to one thing?

Thoughts? I am too emotionally invested to make the logical decision here...

I didn't read the 7 things you posted above as they are irrelevant until you have a solid, focused plan and stop placing blame. They are also irrelevant until you start seeking out and being around people that can lift you up and understand you as well.

You need to make a few plans. Start with a 5 year plan. Yes 5 years. Where do you want to be, what do you want? Work backwards from that and then create a 2 year plan, a 1 year plan, a 9 month plan, a 6 month plan, a 3 month plan, a 1 month plan, a 1 week plan, and a 1 day plan.

Keep in mind, your goals and wants/needs WILL change and its OK to break and change these plans. However, dont be breaking them and rewriting them every 3 months.

I would suggest for your 3 month plan, you start seeking out like minded business people to become friends with and network with. Maybe get into some kind of weekly skype mastermind group.

I do not know your situation but I have 3 kids too, but here is my general advice:

1. Keep whatever job you have now. I dont know if your living paycheck to paycheck or not, but a bird in hand is better then 2 in the bush right now for you. Keep income coming in. Suck it up, it will get better. Dont quit the job you have no matter how sucky. You dont have a plan or a network, so quitting will just fuck you over.

2. You like programming. I get that as I do too but I have a different job ( Im a marketer ). Generally programmers make more money they 80% of all the other jobs out there. If you need more money now/soon, I would start brushing up those coding skills in something hot and in demand in your area and then start applying for those jobs too. I would only apply for those that SOUND interesting to you and also PAY MORE then you make now if possible by at least 20-30%. This will get you doing something you like, get you another skill, and make you more money.

You dont have to tell people everything like the PHP example you gave. Get you ass humping on some stupid simple shit. Make your own blog up or own ecom site up. get 10 of those up today with Wordpress and OpenCart and do some small programming jobs on them and show them that code. Same for anything else. They just want to see proof is all.

3. Once you get this far ( maybe this is your 6 month goal, IDK. ) Hopefully you will be a bit happier and making a little more money. Take that money and invest it in your side projects that will get you independent. Yes you will have to give up time on the side to make your dreams real. The good thing is that you work a job now that is EASILY outsource-able and you are making more money. Take your extra money and pay someone else to either WORK YOUR JOB FOR YOU while you code your side project, or take your money and pay someone else to code your side project. You could keep the extra money and just trade off your own time to do both.

4. Write down 3 ideas/side projects you want to work on you think will get you your independence. You have to pick the right one ( and this is a topic for another thread ) but once you find them start making the most simple and basic prototype you can and once it works and does the bare min. functions its needs, stop on it.

Then promote it

If you dont make a dime from it after promoting it hard, drop it.

If you make money on it, start promoting it more and then start back on coding it to make it better, add in more features over time, etc.

Just get it done. Done is better then perfect.

5. At some point, you will a project or 2 that is making you money to where you can quit the programming job. This will be your independence but not financial freedom unless your project(s) just blow up, which I hope they do.

I'll stop there. Financial freedom is a whole other topic, but I hope you can see the process above that can get you to it.

 

[wiredniko]

Keep making those book notes and sell them

I still do..I think I have 51 book notes right now. :small-smiley-026:

1) It's always possible to redefine what "made it" means. Just because you're not housing a bunch of Maseratis in your garage doesn't mean you aren't successful. Success is entirely a personal definition.

2) If you're a really good coder, work on your business skills and start getting your consulting rate higher and higher (if you aren't already consulting, start). Use this increasing rate over time to build up a warchest so you can buy your own time back and then work on passion projects or projects that need a longer runway to succeed.

.

dchuk I am glad you replied to my post. I have always respected your opinion since I have been on WF.

1) I totally agree. To me success is happiness. I had to re-discover what it means to be happy. I can honestly tell you that I have been happy, I have probably had three days I was depressed in the last two years....two of them when I realized that my parents have money troubles and I had to help them out financially and another when I almost broke up with my girlfriend.

From that perspective things are great. However I want to succeed financially in terms of financial independence...I also want to help people which is something that I want to combine.

2) Please define consulting. Do you mean oDesk type of consulting or something else. If you can elaborate that would be awesome. I know you have mad programming skills and you are the one that made me aware of Codeigniter so I am very curious to hear more about this.

Figure out what you want to do and then reverse engineer everything your top competitors are doing. Start doing exactly what they are doing AND figure out how you can do it better. There is always a way to do it better.

Go buy some clickbank products with lots of affiliates. Buy their products and upsells. Analyze their funnel. Analyze their emails they send you.

Then go look at offers that are on another level in terms of traffic. I'm talking offers running on weather.com

I guarantee you will find differences in the clickbank funnel vs. the weather.com funnel.

Create your own offer and test the clickbank funnel vs. the weather.com funnel. I bet I can tell you which one will win...

PS. I have purchased every cb product under the sun and tons of them don't even try to sell you additional shit via email follow up. You should be selling physical shit on the backend. If it's an info product sell a physical version. Plug that into your own merchant account and tell clickbank's 7% to suck your D brother.

mpbiz you are also another person I really respect in terms of what you have done and your opinions. It's interesting that your perspective is about products because that is what you deal with day in and day out.

I used to think that in order to find success I needed to come up with an idea that no one else had thought about. Since then I realized that is not true. It's "easier" to take something and improve it, be it cheaper (China style), more elegant (Lexus style) etc.

I do think this has a lot of potential money making wise and it's one of the tiers I have not touched. I do have some ideas for this. Not sure if I will end up doing something like that though.

Regardless I appreciate your input because it can apply to anything not just selling products.

Let's start at the beginning- you have a degree in CS and you are a PM, and you are making WHAT yearly?

Tell Me Now.

Good money compared to the average person...I know that some people get into online marketing stuff because they make no money anywhere else. For me that is not the case, however only a fool would think that working in a corporate environment is safe...or that how much time you put into something is valued.

For example if I work 10 hours a day or 8 or 16 at my job it won't really make any difference...what I might get a 5% raise instead of 3%? How much money can you make if you work 16 hours on your private business...maybe not double it but it won't be 5% yearly.

You sound like you're overflowing in doubt.

Clear your mind, focus on one thing, and forget about everything else. Only then will you get the answer you're looking for.

You only get one shot at life - do what you want.

This is why I made this post. I got stuck with my options. My fear is that I am doubting myself for the blog I made because it's starting to do it's thing. Again I am not making money yet...but it's trending right. Am I scared of success? It's a very real thing...anyone that has worked on this shit long enough at some point they hit that weird fear of....oh shit....this might actually work.

I can't tell if this is a different version of that or if I am legitimately having a small personal crisis...I am 33...I am getting older and man it sucks working 14 hours a day plus 10-12 hours during the weekends for 2 years and it has made no difference financially...knowledge wise I have learned so much..about myself...people psychology....servers..you name it.

1. Keep your job and use that money to provide yourself and your family with a stable living environment without worry.
2. Take your "Blog time" and Freelance on the side instead. Use this as an opportunity to get more experience.
3. In the meantime, think about how to connect your current blog audience with a possible software project.
4. After x amount of time, use the money you have earned doing freelance programing to hire a team of cheap programmers to fasttrack your software business (apps, saas etc). Use your gained experience to oversee the project and correct mistakes.
5. Bank hard
6. Diversify.,
7. Quit Job.
8. Be happy.

This is actually a pretty good plan. Interesting. :thumbsup:

Fuck ... are you me?

PM me or contact me on skype if ya wanna chat

::emp::

Hey emp. It's been a while I got your skype I have a bunch of stuff I am working on for the next couple of days but I will try to hit you up this weekend.

Consider if you really have the time to implement your ideas, if you do have enough time make a project plan and implement it. If you don't have enough time, make a project plan of how to get others to do the legwork while you manage them.

Interesting idea. I got your PM by the way, I should be able to respond to it today (I hope)

What is your definition of having made it? Is working for someone else part of that definition? Are you spending 80 to 95% of your time working on the things that will help you make it? Or are you spending that time making someone else? And last but not least, are you passionate about it? Is it consuming your life? if not, why not?

(SNIP)

With all that feel good shit out of the way. Spend all your time working on what you're passionate about. Spend all your money on that project. And then in your spare time figure out how you're going to pay for it. If it means you work for someone 8 hours a day, you work for yourself the other 16. Make damn sure you're doing more for yourself than for someone else. Cheat them by not giving them your all if that's what it takes. Sleep on the job, if that's what it takes. But when you're working on you, you're going 110%; you're working on the things that will actually get you where you want to go.

You are right, working for someone else is not my definition. One of the things I thought about was....do I want to be a programmer as a safety net? If I want a safety net doesn't that diminish my internal fire?

I do love coding...I adore it. It's what makes me happy...so that is my passion. This is one of the reasons why I thought about killing my current blog and starting a new one about code. That way I can kind of do two things at the same time...have a blog for income generation even though monetizing might be a bit harder and learn more code.

In terms of doing things while working basically what I have done is I work 4 hours and then work 4 hours on my personal business stuff during work. In order to make this possible I have become really freaking good on time management...which is the topic of my current blog.

 

[wiredniko]

I am still digesting your post Eliquid....which probably is a good sign that you are right.

 

[emp]

<...>
2. You like programming. I get that as I do too but I have a different job ( Im a marketer ). Generally programmers make more money they 80% of all the other jobs out there.<...>

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha...SNORT...*cough*...hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahaha..splutter..heh...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..... etc..

While programmers make decent money, try being in a position to leverage programmers. That's where the money is.

Even a middle manager gets paid more than the programmers working in his team.

::emp::

 

[eliquid]

wiredniko, tell us where your at man.

update us