Goddamn Sheeple.

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BlondeTM said:
It could be that we as humans have over-complicated things and we're all just supposed to be decent to each other and be the best people we can be. None of us know for sure.
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I think you've hit the nail on the head. Most of us agree on the basics (world leaders excluded) - don't kill, treat people how you'd like to be treated, etc.. but we don't need a mountain of doctrine and a hierarchy of clerics to tell us that.

Man, it would be so much easier to just follow a path someone else had laid, less thinking, less questioning, just believe. I don't think I'll ever be one of those people though and I doubt I'll ever have answers to my questions.
 


That is the 2nd time lazy hippy and springer said almost the exact same thing around the same time ( I think the other thread was the n00by challenge thread)

Weird shit.
 
Your right lazy hippy, we don't have to have a mountain of doctrine and a hierarchy of clerics, as that is what Jesus was teaching. The leaders of the church burdened believers into having to go through rituals, basically worshipping them and excluding the lower class. Jesus lifted that burden, done away with old rules, called the leaders out on what they really where... hypocrates, and basically telling us to love each other.

God is the alpha and the omega. I used to have a hard time believing in God, but one day it came to me. If I created everything in the world and the world, I wouldn't feel like I have to explain myself or my plan to anyone. We have free will to believe in God, and if he opened the sky to prove he is real, then we would have no other choice but to believe, then there wouldn't be faith. Another reason God doesn't reveal himself is that he only comes to those who choose to believe. He doesn't push himself on anyone.

I am really glad this conversation is remaining rational and respectful of each others views.
 
xecutech said:
We have free will to believe in God, and if he opened the sky to prove he is real, then we would have no other choice but to believe, then there wouldn't be faith. Another reason God doesn't reveal himself is that he only comes to those who choose to believe. He doesn't push himself on anyone.

I am really glad this conversation is remaining rational and respectful of each others views.
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Speaking of rational, if god became man and visited earth and proved his divinity, the people who were there to witness it would not have faith, they'd have proof, and therefore faith would be invalid for them.

Also, how can someone "choose" to believe? That's like choosing to like french fries. Atheists are not obstinate children refusing to do their homework or clean their room. Most of them have searched internally and have found no faith, not that they ignore the faith they do have.
 
Supergeek said:
Is a person's lack of faith an intrinsic fault? A problem with the "soul"? Religion was thrown at me, but it did not stick. If there was a Creator, and he created me, that lack of faith is not my fault.
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It is an intrinsic fault, as you're the one that has to have a personal faith. Maybe it didn't stick because your lack of faith wasn't there for it all to make sense. I can empathize with that because I used to be the same way...hell I still am that way a little now. There's always going to be shit where you're questioning if you're insane for truly believing in what you do. Like most things in life, I use personal experience to gauge my sanity, in any aspect - religion and affiliate marketing. About a year ago things got pretty shitty for me, I quit my job to attempt working online, lost money, bank account on the negatives which meant overdraft charges. Things just weren't good. So I started putting real faith in God...maybe for a minute I thought it was pure coincidence that almost immediately I started making money and turning rather profitable. Honestly there were too many times when my Azoogle account looked shitty, and I just walked away from the comp and prayed for a few minutes, and come back to refresh the screen and find 3 new leads (which was a lot for me at the time when I would usually get 10 leads a day). Much too many times that has happened for it to be coincidence. The more faith I put in God and the more I try and give back, the more comes to me. So from my own personal standpoint, there's no way I'm ever looking back or changing my faith, as it's done nothing but reward me while also giving me the opportunity to reward and help other people.

Speaking of rational, if god became man and visited earth and proved his divinity, the people who were there to witness it would not have faith, they'd have proof, and therefore faith would be invalid for them.
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Believe it or not a lot of them were really weak in faith, even after seeing what Jesus did. And most people hadn't witnessed any of the miracles and had to rely on faith that Jesus would help them out in some way.

That goes into an completely new topic - how literal to actually take the Bible. I definitely believe that a lot of people take the Bible much too literally. I don't believe that God created the world in 7 days, I believe the people of that time wouldn't have any way to possibly understand physics, the Big Bang Theory, and true origins of the universe.


It is offensive though when people are fucking ignorant and like to post jackass comments and threads concerning a whole religion without realizing that everyone isn't "crazy" in it. I'd never push Christianity on anybody...I'd encourage it from my own experience, but ultimately the decision isn't mine to make.


Also, although many posters here are atheist, we all can learn a thing or two about making a better world by reading the Bible. Even if you don't believe in Jesus as a prophet, the messages he preaches still are all very good for anyone to hear - as are the messages from Buddah and religions alike. Unfortunately due to extremist views on both ends of the spectrum (atheists being ignorant and people murdering in the name of religion), things don't work out and that's when bad things happen.


And holy shit I was not intending on posting that much.
 
Please don't lump all non-believers together as atheists. It's not black and white, there's a million shades of grey.

I believe in nothing, but think there may be something.
 
SUP3RNOVA said:
Also, although many posters here are atheist, we all can learn a thing or two about making a better world by reading the Bible. Even if you don't believe in Jesus as a prophet, the messages he preaches still are all very good for anyone to hear - as are the messages from Buddah and religions alike. Unfortunately due to extremist views on both ends of the spectrum (atheists being ignorant and people murdering in the name of religion), things don't work out and that's when bad things happen.
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This is where you lost me. Most of the bible is filled with violence, child abuse, oppression, misogyny, pedophilia, and hate. How would following a text like this ever lead this world to a better place?

Some of you might have seen this "letter" below address to Dr. Laura. It was written after she aired her opinion that homosexuality is a "mistake of nature". I like it because it forces people to confront the reality of a text that they say is "the word of God"...

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your radio show, and I try to share that
knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus
18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some
advise from you, however, regarding some of the specific Bible laws and how to follow them.

a)I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus
21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
She's 18 and starting University. Will the slave buyer continue to pay for
her education by law ?


b)When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They
claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

c)I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I
tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d)Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? ......Why can't I own Canadians? <<--(love this line)

e)I have a neighbor who insists on working on the
Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally
obligated to kill him myself, or should this be a neighborhood improvement
project ?

f)A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I
don't agree. Can you settle this?

g)Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a
defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my
vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? Would contact
lenses help ?

h)Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around
their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How
should they die?

i)I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me
unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j)My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different
crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two
different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse
and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble
of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16) Couldn't
we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with
people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confidentyou can
help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and
unchanging.
 
Turbolapp, I've read the Dr. Laura letter before - good stuff.

I believe Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion summed it up quite accurately:
"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."
​
 
You know, I think this discussion would be better suited than copying and pasting the opinions of someone other than yourself. Seriously, you should have your own opinion, as Dr. Laura and Richard Dawkins isn't in this conversation.

I have refrained from using quotes from the Bible to be fair. There are far too many points we can bring up on our own, and it would take me half the day to attempt to challenge every article you copy and paste here, I do have to work you know??? :)
 
turbolapp said:
This is where you lost me. Most of the bible is filled with violence, child abuse, oppression, misogyny, pedophilia, and hate. How would following a text like this ever lead this world to a better place?

Some of you might have seen this "letter" below address to Dr. Laura. It was written after she aired her opinion that homosexuality is a "mistake of nature". I like it because it forces people to confront the reality of a text that they say is "the word of God"...

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your radio show, and I try to share that
knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus
18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some
advise from you, however, regarding some of the specific Bible laws and how to follow them.

a)I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus
21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
She's 18 and starting University. Will the slave buyer continue to pay for
her education by law ?


b)When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They
claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

c)I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I
tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d)Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? ......Why can't I own Canadians? <<--(love this line)

e)I have a neighbor who insists on working on the
Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally
obligated to kill him myself, or should this be a neighborhood improvement
project ?

f)A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I
don't agree. Can you settle this?

g)Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a
defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my
vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? Would contact
lenses help ?

h)Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around
their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How
should they die?

i)I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me
unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j)My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different
crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two
different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse
and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble
of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16) Couldn't
we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with
people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confidentyou can
help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and
unchanging.
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I listened to this "expert" the other day on the radio. She is a fuckin idiot
 
xecutech said:
You know, I think this discussion would be better suited than copying and pasting the opinions of someone other than yourself. Seriously, you should have your own opinion, as Dr. Laura and Richard Dawkins isn't in this conversation.

I have refrained from using quotes from the Bible to be fair. There are far too many points we can bring up on our own, and it would take me half the day to attempt to challenge every article you copy and paste here, I do have to work you know??? :)
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Granted it would take time. But I'm sure there's a christian website out there that explains why in the world a loving god would say and require such things. By all means cut and paste it here. Because whether I found the quotes by scouring the bible myself or I cut and pasted it from somewhere else, the fact still remains that these passages are straight from the bible. While I cannot speak for the other questioners here, I think the main perplexity that confounds atheists and agnostics alike is, Why do people put their faith in a religion or in a text which such awful teachings?
 
Well for one I consider myself a Christian, which I mainly follow the new testament, which was a new covenant with God. I don't concern myself much with the old testament, nor act like I have all the answers. Everything most people have problems with is the old testament, but if you read the new testament, you will find that most things your complaining about is not in there.

Again, I am not going to get into a copy and paste debate with you. I don't "have" to justify my beliefs, as i also thought we were just having a friendly conversation about faith and religion. Your not having to defend yourself, nor should I. We can just agree to disagree, but you can't give us a book review if your not the one reading the book.
 
xecutech said:
Well for one I consider myself a Christian, which I mainly follow the new testament, which was a new covenant with God. I don't concern myself much with the old testament, nor act like I have all the answers. Everything most people have problems with is the old testament, but if you read the new testament, you will find that most things your complaining about is not in there.

Again, I am not going to get into a copy and paste debate with you. I don't "have" to justify my beliefs, as i also thought we were just having a friendly conversation about faith and religion. Your not having to defend yourself, nor should I. We can just agree to disagree, but you can't give us a book review if your not the one reading the book.
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I agree with this wholeheartedly.

That letter was not only used to slam Dr. Laura, it took the bible out of context. That's like trying to apply a 1920's homemaking book to how wives should run a household today.

Slams by fanatics like Dr. Laura and those that vehemently oppose her to the point of twisting words (which makes them just like her) does nothing but turn discussions where people actually learn about each other's beliefs into petty arguing. I'm liking this discussion and I hope it doesn't go that route.
 
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