I just realized the irony of this image, in this thread.lol
Anyway, that gives me an idea for a hotlinking image service... Muahaha...
Goddamn Sheeple.
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Anyway, that gives me an idea for a hotlinking image service... Muahaha...
...logic?
something as beautiful as the universe wasn't created just from random energy somehow blasting into an expanding body of planets and such.
I will agree that people get too hardcore about things and take things like the Bible too literally, but I find it extremely hard to believe that there's no higher power where everything first came from.
plus the personal impact I feel it's had on my life has been well worth the faith.
What's worse, a christain who pushes their views on you or an atheist that pushes their views on you?
Answer: Fuck off :thefinger:
Answer: Fuck off :thefinger:
First off, thanks for not flaming me. I had anticipated coming in here to find alot of bs.
I understand your frustration turbolapp about the church spam you get, but I don't think they did it intentionally, as who would know your an atheist. I didnt think you were until you just mentioned it. I get a ton of viagra spam, probably from some of you, but I don't need it, nor do I take it personally. I have never gotten any Christian spam, not a single one, so I would assume it may be from some of the sites you visit, or you could be correct that someone knew you to be an atheist, but we really don't know.
There are alot of "bad" Christians who really take Christianity way too far and from what I read in the Bible, they are way off, but arguing with them is like debating an atheist, so I live my life and let them live theirs.
The funny thing is is that everything alot of you say about church is the same problem Jesus had with churches. A few examples are making money in the church, acting better than others and putting too much burden on believers making them feel they have to do certain things for God... the list goes on and on. Jesus and his deciples were a radical bunch, unlike anything the Jews had ever seen. The church hated him for his views, as he only really wanted one thing of us... to love one another, even non-believers.
No matter what ever I would have faced coming into this thread this evening, I was not prepared to defend myself, as I wouldn't have done so. The Bible tells us to share the good news, but if no one wants to hear it to move on. So, I would think he wouldn't want us to spam or intrude.
Thanks for taking it easy on me, I know you all could have had fun at my expense.
I don't like where todays church is going. There seems to be alot of abuse of power, money and like it's an exclusive club to be in. The real church is for sinners, as we all are sinners and we all make mistakes. The church has gotten too far from that and that's why it looks so bad when someone in the church screws up. Then non-believers get to point back at those who criticize what we do wrong.
So to sum it up, love one another. If you don't want to hear it from Jesus, just about every other religion will tell you to do the same. It's really just common sense. I would also advise anyone to read the Bible themselves, something like an niv version they could understand and make their own opinions. I think too many people criticize what's in the Bible from being abused by other "Christians" and churches.
I understand your frustration turbolapp about the church spam you get, but I don't think they did it intentionally, as who would know your an atheist. I didnt think you were until you just mentioned it. I get a ton of viagra spam, probably from some of you, but I don't need it, nor do I take it personally. I have never gotten any Christian spam, not a single one, so I would assume it may be from some of the sites you visit, or you could be correct that someone knew you to be an atheist, but we really don't know.
There are alot of "bad" Christians who really take Christianity way too far and from what I read in the Bible, they are way off, but arguing with them is like debating an atheist, so I live my life and let them live theirs.
The funny thing is is that everything alot of you say about church is the same problem Jesus had with churches. A few examples are making money in the church, acting better than others and putting too much burden on believers making them feel they have to do certain things for God... the list goes on and on. Jesus and his deciples were a radical bunch, unlike anything the Jews had ever seen. The church hated him for his views, as he only really wanted one thing of us... to love one another, even non-believers.
No matter what ever I would have faced coming into this thread this evening, I was not prepared to defend myself, as I wouldn't have done so. The Bible tells us to share the good news, but if no one wants to hear it to move on. So, I would think he wouldn't want us to spam or intrude.
Thanks for taking it easy on me, I know you all could have had fun at my expense.
I don't like where todays church is going. There seems to be alot of abuse of power, money and like it's an exclusive club to be in. The real church is for sinners, as we all are sinners and we all make mistakes. The church has gotten too far from that and that's why it looks so bad when someone in the church screws up. Then non-believers get to point back at those who criticize what we do wrong.
So to sum it up, love one another. If you don't want to hear it from Jesus, just about every other religion will tell you to do the same. It's really just common sense. I would also advise anyone to read the Bible themselves, something like an niv version they could understand and make their own opinions. I think too many people criticize what's in the Bible from being abused by other "Christians" and churches.
This is a great post. To expand, there are also a lot of bad Muslims, athiests, pagans, etc. It's not so much the religion, it's those who do crappy things and use their religion as the scapegoat.
I have a very strong faith, and sadly it's become less comfortable to talk about it openly because of the acceptable christian hating.
For me, my faith is a part of who I am. It isn't a bad part of me, and I don't push it on anyone else. But I don't like to hide it to make others feel at ease either.
It's nice that there are people willing to have rational conversations about religion. Every time I go to my favorite writer's forum, there's always this urge to look in the equivalent section to "Shooting the Shit" and argue with the morons who post there are who have no problem seeing Muslims, GBLTs, and liberals as less than human. It's scary. Then again, there are too many idiots who think that anyone can be a writer, so I guess it shouldn't surprise me if said idiocy also extends to political thought.
As a devout leftist who is also incidentally Christian (and a former Pagan, former Athiest), I tend to take flak from both sides of the aisle, so to speak. :rasta:
It used to be that standing up for reason, civil rights, peace, and justice, along with fighting poverty, were the staples of American congregations. You know, the whole 'do unto others' thing. I could blame Reagan, but I think that's way too simplistic an answer. We Americans are so strange about God, guns and government that I doubt anyone will be able to define when these subtle shifts in priorities occured. The more I see and know, the more I am convinced that most people need to go back to school and learn about civics and history before they try to teach others who's right or wrong and what model works.
As a devout leftist who is also incidentally Christian (and a former Pagan, former Athiest), I tend to take flak from both sides of the aisle, so to speak. :rasta:
It used to be that standing up for reason, civil rights, peace, and justice, along with fighting poverty, were the staples of American congregations. You know, the whole 'do unto others' thing. I could blame Reagan, but I think that's way too simplistic an answer. We Americans are so strange about God, guns and government that I doubt anyone will be able to define when these subtle shifts in priorities occured. The more I see and know, the more I am convinced that most people need to go back to school and learn about civics and history before they try to teach others who's right or wrong and what model works.
It was done intentionally. It was sent on Facebook. Facebook profiles list religion. Christian sheeple intentionally spam their crap to Facebook profiles listed as atheist or agnostic.
:bowdown:The frustrating thing about these sorts of discussions are when people make statements like this. I'm sure you don't realise the illogicality of your statement - beauty is subjective - but I'm sure you 'believe' it.
Xecutech, interesting post. It wouldn't surprise me at all in Jesus's attitude to modern churches was the same and he would probably have hated the shit that followed his death and most likely the chosen text for the bible.
It's been well documented that the bible was created to advance a particular cause at a particular time, yet in a sad irony millions of people use the exact words in it as a way to live their lives.
Brian got it right: "You don't need to follow me, you don't need to follow anybody! You've got to think for yourselves! You're all individuals! You're all different!"
I think a person can be an individualist while also following a particular religion. The key is not use the religion as a way to manipulate others or let others manipulate you with religion.
From where did this higher power come? Did it just burst upon the scene one day and begin creating things or was it also created? If so, by whom or what?
There are some things in life that really don't have answers. To me, that's one of them. It's the whole basis of faith.
i guess logicality is subjective as well, as i pull my logic from my own personal experiences and base it on what has "worked" for me. much like i do with my affiliate campaigns. if i'm bidding $1.00 and consistently losing money, it's just logical to decrease my bids.
springer said:
nobody will ever be able to answer those questions, from either a religious or atheist standpoint.
My opinion about the whole god thing:
There are too many religions all with fervant and sincere believers for any one of them to be "right" in terms of exclusivity. They all have sincere faith. Even the guys who hear voices that tell them they need to commit suicide or they'll miss their ride on the comet. Belief can obviously be a delusion. Since they can't all be right in the details, the whole matter of belief is suspect.
Believing in a higher power, anthropromorphic or not, is not itself stupid, but I think a lot of people confuse that belief, or wish, with a requirement to be affiliated with an organized religion -- even if it means accepting ridiculous tenets like a child will go to hell unless someone pours water on its head in a ceremony it cannot comprehend, or that they're going to get 72 virgins if they die while blowing up other people for their faith.
I believe myself to be a good person. I don't harm others intentionally, and I don't like to see suffering. I attended Baptist, Lutheran, and Catholic schools while growing up, and I saw sincerity and hypocrisy standing shoulder to shoulder every day.
Is a person's lack of faith an intrinsic fault? A problem with the "soul"? Religion was thrown at me, but it did not stick. If there was a Creator, and he created me, that lack of faith is not my fault.
So, as a reasonable, empathetic person, should I be condemned to an eternity of suffering just because I didn't think it was right for me? And what about the people throughout history who were never exposed to religion? Unless the Creator is evil or spiteful, Justice would demand that equal opportunities to believe should be given to everyone. And if that Creator is evil or spiteful, we have already lost.
There are too many religions all with fervant and sincere believers for any one of them to be "right" in terms of exclusivity. They all have sincere faith. Even the guys who hear voices that tell them they need to commit suicide or they'll miss their ride on the comet. Belief can obviously be a delusion. Since they can't all be right in the details, the whole matter of belief is suspect.
Believing in a higher power, anthropromorphic or not, is not itself stupid, but I think a lot of people confuse that belief, or wish, with a requirement to be affiliated with an organized religion -- even if it means accepting ridiculous tenets like a child will go to hell unless someone pours water on its head in a ceremony it cannot comprehend, or that they're going to get 72 virgins if they die while blowing up other people for their faith.
I believe myself to be a good person. I don't harm others intentionally, and I don't like to see suffering. I attended Baptist, Lutheran, and Catholic schools while growing up, and I saw sincerity and hypocrisy standing shoulder to shoulder every day.
Is a person's lack of faith an intrinsic fault? A problem with the "soul"? Religion was thrown at me, but it did not stick. If there was a Creator, and he created me, that lack of faith is not my fault.
So, as a reasonable, empathetic person, should I be condemned to an eternity of suffering just because I didn't think it was right for me? And what about the people throughout history who were never exposed to religion? Unless the Creator is evil or spiteful, Justice would demand that equal opportunities to believe should be given to everyone. And if that Creator is evil or spiteful, we have already lost.
I don't think there is a cut and dry answer. I believe in my religion's teachings, which is how I try to live my life. However, what you described as how you life your life is very close to my religion's teaching (Presbyterian by the way). My religion also isn't exclusive, it doesn't believe that all non-Presbyterians are doomed.
It could be that we as humans have over-complicated things and we're all just supposed to be decent to each other and be the best people we can be, living up to our fullest potential. None of us know for sure.
It's like life...I think God looks at individuals as individuals. There are some people I give second and third chances to when they fuck up because I know they're good people. I know what their values are. There are others that don't even get a second chance, because I know they'll fuck up over and over because their only priority is what they get out of things.
It could be that we as humans have over-complicated things and we're all just supposed to be decent to each other and be the best people we can be, living up to our fullest potential. None of us know for sure.
It's like life...I think God looks at individuals as individuals. There are some people I give second and third chances to when they fuck up because I know they're good people. I know what their values are. There are others that don't even get a second chance, because I know they'll fuck up over and over because their only priority is what they get out of things.
Any of you seen The Second Coming? Not sure if it was shown outside the UK, but definitely worth a watch. Very thought-provoking.
Eccleston is great, but I haven't seen that film.
Reminds me of one of my favorite poems:
The Second Coming
W.B. Yeats
<dl><dd>Turning and turning in the widening gyre</dd><dd>The falcon cannot hear the falconer;</dd><dd>Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;</dd><dd>Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,</dd><dd>The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere</dd><dd>The ceremony of innocence is drowned;</dd><dd>The best lack all conviction, while the worst</dd><dd>Are full of passionate intensity.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>Surely some revelation is at hand;</dd><dd>Surely the Second Coming is at hand.</dd><dd>The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out</dd><dd>When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi</dd><dd>Troubles my sight: somewhere in the sands of the desert</dd><dd>A shape with lion body and the head of a man,</dd><dd>A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,</dd><dd>Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it</dd><dd>Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.</dd><dd>The darkness drops again; but now I know</dd><dd>That twenty centuries of stony sleep</dd><dd>Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,</dd><dd>And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,</dd><dd>Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?</dd></dl>
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