That's the point of catastrophic plans. Unfortunately, Obamacare has outlawed those. I had one of the policies, which is now canceled and illegal.
Fully Privatized Healthcare
- Thread starter brandonbaker
- Start date
That's the point of catastrophic plans. Unfortunately, Obamacare has outlawed those. I had one of the policies, which is now canceled and illegal.
I'm guessing that you are in your twenties/thirties and under the delusion that your current health will remain constant throughout your life?
Most healthcare is consumed in the last decade before death. My father worked till he was 74, was never ill at all during that time (while paying taxes into the British healthcare system). And then suddenly aged 80 he got really ill. Double heart by-pass. Tumour in head. Arthritis. Multiple other problems. He's still with us, thanks to the NHS, but in just a short period he's taken out from the system way more than he paid in.
Are you sure that you won't get ill when you are eighty, and if you are, what is this "belief" based upon? Parents who never got ill ever? Most illness is down to genetics. My dad's family had a history of heart problems, his brother passed away at 54 due to a heart attack. Dad delayed this by eating right and exercising, and so on - but genetics still caught up with him aged 80. How can you be sure you can beat the genetic lottery?
What would be the cost of that if I paid direct? 25k? Say I get life flighted every 10 years. Because I can't drive or avoid other cars for some reason, im drunk texting and driving or something. That would cost me $250 a month. What are the chances of that happening every 10 years?
He should have the proper savings at that age. If he doesn't, you guys are such assholes that you can pitch in to pay the bill? You are his kids. You need to look up and take care of your elders.
If I had those problems when I am 80 ill just pass, I will have lived a great life, had a great family. I would not want to burden them with my bills. Or burden the whole country as you plan to do.
He has got proper savings - he'll leave us all substantial property and other assets.
The point regarding UK healthcare is this: if you add up all his taxes that he paid in his life, in absolute terms, he's got out more from the system than he put in (even tho' the taxes were supposed to pay for other stuff like education, roads defence etc as well). And even though he worked longer than normal and paid taxes for longer than normal. And the "deal" has left his other assets intact, ready to be passed to his family.
Why on earth would a sensible person pass up on a system like that? Paying in when you are young and don't miss the money, and drawing down when you are old and on a fixed income is a very smart thing to do. And he hasn't "burdened" either the nation nor his family - he's paid his dues in full without quibbling.
Of course Britain's health system is a lot cheaper than the American one (just 9% of GDP rather than 17% of GDP). But I understand that Obamacare has provisions to tighten things up. For example, Medicare payments will be per person rather than per visit/procedure. That means the American system no longer has an incentive to keep people ill in order to keep getting govt subsidies. The incentive now is to get people better as soon as possble - pretty much how European healthcare works, and which aligns with the patients desires. Don't know why it took Obama to do this and why it wasn't done earlier. Don't know why you are all upset at this - don't you want to cut the waste and bad incentives in your system?
You still haven't answered my question - why are you so sure that your current health will last your entire lifetime. Are your parents health great? And if not are you saving to pay for the illnesses they have and that you will inherit?
Right now I'm paying $180 per month for health insurance (Europe). I'm the type of person that likes to make my life as simple and hassle free as possible. Not having insurance would probably introduce additional complications into my life in case of a freak disease or whatever. Maybe I'll lose most of my cash in the next couple of years and will be a burden on my family if medical expenses get too high. It's just simpler to have insurance IMO
If socialized medicine is so good, make it voluntary and don't force those who opt out to subsidize the system with higher income taxes. BTW, the free market will always be cheaper than gov't medicine. Check these prices. They are 1/5 to 1/10th the price of competing hospitals:
http://www.surgerycenterok.com/pricing/
Plus, the prices would even be lower if there was less government intervention and more competition. Healthcare is not expensive. Government makes it expensive.
It is voluntary - every election people freely vote to keep the current system!
Taxes in britain are not higher than in the US. Top rate of tax is 45% and lower tax is 20% plus 11% National Insurance. and for that we get the lot - healthcare, education, defence etc. It's the cheapest system ever. Like I said, my dad is towards the end of his life and his ledger is positive (he's got out more than he put in in absolute terms - inflation adjusted, it's neutral).
Socialized healthcare really does deliver lower costs, partly because govt negotiates fiercely with the pharmas about drug costs, and partly because all the negotiations are done by people who are healthy (the professionals) rather than people who are too sick to think straight as in the American system.
You hate insurance - fine - you should have lobbied Obama for a single payment system rather than this farce of pretending you won't ever get ill and that when you do you'll be happy to die without treatment - trust me when I tell you that you won't give up life that easily and will be kicking yourself for being so daft when younger.
If you have no insurance, at least save an amount in a special saving account. Don't wing it thinking you will be happy to die when the time comes. You won't - the life force is too strong.
I think car insurance is a bad comparison since nobody is really forced to buy it. Buying a car and driving on public roads is a choice with multiple alternatives. People that choose to walk, ride a bike, skateboard, carpool, take a taxi, bus, train, subway, etc... don't have to buy car insurance.
Pink Floyd, "Sheep"
Hopelessly passing your time in the grassland away;
Only dimly aware of a certain unease in the air.
You better watch out,
There may be dogs about
I've looked over Jordan, and I have seen
Things are not what they seem.
What do you get for pretending the danger's not real.
Meek and obedient you follow the leader
Down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel.
What a surprise!
A look of terminal shock in your eyes.
Now things are really what they seem.
No, this is no bad dream.
The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want
He makes me down to lie
Through pastures green He leadeth me the silent waters by.
With bright knives He releaseth my soul.
He maketh me to hang on hooks in high places.
He converteth me to lamb cutlets,
For lo, He hath great power, and great hunger.
When cometh the day we lowly ones,
Through quiet reflection, and great dedication
Master the art of karate,
Lo, we shall rise up,
And then we'll make the bugger's eyes water.
Bleating and babbling we fell on his neck with a scream.
Wave upon wave of demented avengers
March cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream.
Have you heard the news?
The dogs are dead!
You better stay home
And do as you're told.
Get out of the road if you want to grow old.
Hopelessly passing your time in the grassland away;
Only dimly aware of a certain unease in the air.
You better watch out,
There may be dogs about
I've looked over Jordan, and I have seen
Things are not what they seem.
What do you get for pretending the danger's not real.
Meek and obedient you follow the leader
Down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel.
What a surprise!
A look of terminal shock in your eyes.
Now things are really what they seem.
No, this is no bad dream.
The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want
He makes me down to lie
Through pastures green He leadeth me the silent waters by.
With bright knives He releaseth my soul.
He maketh me to hang on hooks in high places.
He converteth me to lamb cutlets,
For lo, He hath great power, and great hunger.
When cometh the day we lowly ones,
Through quiet reflection, and great dedication
Master the art of karate,
Lo, we shall rise up,
And then we'll make the bugger's eyes water.
Bleating and babbling we fell on his neck with a scream.
Wave upon wave of demented avengers
March cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream.
Have you heard the news?
The dogs are dead!
You better stay home
And do as you're told.
Get out of the road if you want to grow old.
Is the definition of voluntary different in the UK? In the US, something is not voluntary if you can't choose whether you want to participate. It's an individual thing. It's not voluntary if the masses force you to participate or the repercussions of not participating include prison, fines, or property seizure.
I think this guy is English:
[ame="www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6q0slMhDw8"]Reid "Taxation Is Voluntary" - YouTube[/ame]
Look at the veterinarian industry, they have some of the same drugs with different names and they are a fraction of the price. My parents dog had cancer and it was a couple thousand dollars to treat and its gone now, cancer is cancer, no matter person or dog.
The majority of Americans voted "nobody" in the last presidential election, but Barack Obama is still in the White House.
Also, plastic surgery is a good example. Insurance doesn't cover cosmetic surgery. Since people have to pay for it out of their own pockets, the prices are affordable. Pretty much any broad who wants fake boobs or a nose job can afford them now with cash or credit card financing. Paging SuddenlyAss...
We don't have a constitution and no Parliament binds it's successors - so we can change anything we like at election time.
We don't change the tax-funded health service because it's literally cheaper than any other system. If you can get to the end of your life and say that you've not only got out everything that you paid in taxes, but overall you paid less than you would have in another system that required insurance on top of taxes, then you are doing exceedingly well. Because you accrue the difference in savings and you pass that on to your descendants.
It's pointless arguing about this because you don't live in such a system and never will.
All I can say to you is to not make the mistake of assuming that you won't ever get ill.
If you decide not to get insurance, then you need to self-insure.
Look at your parents and grandparents and see what illnesses they have and at what age they got them. Then look at the cost of the treatment, divide by the difference between the age you are now and the age the illness tends to hit, and you arrive at an annual amount you need to pay into a savings account. If you intend to have children, then add in the cost of maternity care as well. And don't forget to adjust each year for inflation. It will total to more than an insurance premium - but that's because insurance pools risk - they know that everyone won't be sick at once so they can collect lower amounts. Because you are self insuring you have no one to pool with - But the great gamble is that you won't ever need the money so you can pass it to your descendants to use as their health pot (you can't ever spend it on anything else because right to the moment of death you won't know if you need it).
But don't make the mistake of not getting insurance and not saving a health fund either because you believe that you are on a special diet that will protect you permanently from illness. That's pure idiocy.
Not even credit card financing, they have normal financing like youre buying a car now....not sure how repos work.
That's really interesting-especially this video from the OK site:
Oklahoma Doctors vs. Obamacare - Reason.com
What a comparison: ~5800 as compared to 33000+
Too much to correct but I didn't say I was against health insurance. I HAD a CATASTROPHIC insurance plan that was CANCELED BY OBAMACARE. I've had such a policy for over 10 years. As of Jan 1, 2014, it is ILLEGAL!
I will not sign up for an Obamacare plan that forces me to subsidize women, obese people, people with pre-existing conditions, etc. That is FORCED wealth redistribution, plain and simple.