From PPC to Media Buying

erifdekciw

erifdekciw

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May 3, 2008
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Ever since that big google ban i haven't really tried to make a new google account (once but it got banned right away) and i kinda left it at that. Since those bans i've been trying to do media buys and using other side ad networks but it just isn't the same. Is anyone else in the same boat?

No matter what i try with these ad networks nothing is ever consistent. One day im in the profit the next day im so far in the red i have to stop the campaign.

One big problem im having with the switch is everything is now based around the week day. Nobody is working weekends at these ad networks to approve your ads and people leave by 5pm everyday so you only got a certain amount of time to test different landing pages / ads and these things don't get approved instantly it takes an hour or so its such a motivational killer.

Maybe im doing this all wrong. Ive started working with microsoft search again but the traffic there is slow of course but at least you know what your targeting. Maybe one reason im having a problem is i keep dicking around with this one ad network that doesn't even let you target your ads anywhere it just runs across there network.

Is anyone else in the same boat? And is anyone here actually running shit legit? When I look at competitors ads for the top offers on this particular network id say 90% of them are cloaking and using banned landing page types. Is anyone even having any success trying to push shit legit without being a shady bastard in this particular area of advertising?
 


tainted said:
Yes.
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I dont push anything shady. I stopped rebills months ago. Of course its been a bitch trying to diversify and learn other aspects of this industry/other verticles/traffic sources, but i've gotten back close to what i was making with rebills. In the end its better to not push shady shit, it will make you a better marketer

good luck bro
 
when i ment shady i dint mean rebills i was talking more about shady tactics like cloaking your site to get a shady website threw compliance stuff like that.
 
"is i keep dicking around with this one ad network that doesn't even let you target your ads anywhere it just runs across there network"

I'd say that is your problem right there.

I feel you on dealing with 9-5 drones though. Always slow to respond to emails/phone calls and can be quite condescending sometimes for no good reason. The key is to feel sorry for them much like you would a caged animal. That helps me deal with them a little better at least.
 
miketpowell said:
The key is to feel sorry for them much like you would a caged animal. That helps me deal with them a little better at least.
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:laughing-smiley-007 too funny, it sucks how a lot of people are complaining about this. A real motivation killer.
 
The first thing you need to do is work on your self motivation. If you really want to make yourself more motivated quit your day job and start doing this full time. I guarantee you, you'll be more motivated.

As for the business hours it does suck but you get used to and learn how to work with it. Make sure you get to know your network managers and have all of their contact info so you can holler at them to get a move on.
 
Webwonder said:
The first thing you need to do is work on your self motivation. If you really want to make yourself more motivated quit your day job and start doing this full time. I guarantee you, you'll be more motivated.
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yeah I did this full time for like 2-3 years now. well stuff related to making money online. Past year was good and i had a lot of cash and i was sitting on it like it was gonna last for ever and nothing was gonna change. So its been a bitch trying to get myself motivated again. And one major problem I have is being so use to seeing numbers like 10,000$+ a day in revenue that when it comes time to testing I press the pedal all the way down and blow threw money in minutes testing stuff. So i need to step back and take my time.

but yes motivation is probably my number one problem right now.

I guess in a way I posted this as a vent / someone yell at my ass and talk some sense into me. It helped I got a shit ton of work done today so thanks everyone for the advice and criticism. it motivates me to try harder and stop bullshitting so much.
 
erifdekciw said:
And one major problem I have is being so use to seeing numbers like 10,000$+ a day in revenue that when it comes time to testing I press the pedal all the way down and blow threw money in minutes testing stuff.
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If you wont to be more focused with media buying then take it slower and go smaller. Media buying doesn't have to just be $100k buys with Advertising.com and Valueclick.

This is the way I started with media buying:

1) Find an offer that converts, then doing some demographic research, find popular sites that are related to the offers niche.

2) Contact the sites directly about running ads with them. Most sites are more than happy to run directly with advertisers because they make more money. If you don't have to give a cut to a middle man, often you can pay less with the publisher still getting more. It's win win.

3) Run substantial testing of ads / placements / variables / LP's and similar offers in that niche and find a combination that works best. This can often be done for a few hundred dollars rather than $10,000's on a RON media network.

4) Go back, get payout bumps on the offer, negotiate hard with the publisher, get as big a margin as you can. Adding 5-10% on either side of the offer can make a huge difference.

A great way to negotiate with a pub is to offer them a longer term buy, or tell them that you will take more volume / remove caps etc if they meet X price.

5) Go find more sites a do the same thing.

You can make a huge amount of money with big media buys. But it's always more of a risk and you need more money to do it. Start smaller, more focused, and work your way up.

Once you find some good converting high volume sites you can get a ton of good traffic doing this, just remember to regularly rotate new ads, LP's, and offers and you will have a sustainable method of getting conversions.
 
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err, just a little out of left field but how about learn how to make google accounts that don't get banned?

(its another option)
 
If you know your demographic, buy on alexa 1000-10,000. It takes a while to learn media buy but once you get a hang of it, it is a piece of cake. A lot of people on this forum do not know shit about media buy. They just rip creatives, landing pages, follow people's buy, and do not test shit and use the same creatives.

Oh ya, if you can't invest few thousands on an adserver, might as well just quit. It is really pointless. I saw a lot of idiots following my buys and quit afterward. The difference is that I was using an ad server and he was not.

If you want motivation, just put in a big IO. You'll work your ass off to know everything about your campaign.
 
Dude there is soooooooo many places to buy traffic. I think you're not trying hard enough and stuck in the past. Think of everything bad that happens as an opportunity to grow and get better. That's the coolest part about our business. We can chnage on a dime. From one traffic source or vertical to another. Type of offer to another. 3 weeks ago as a network we were primarily rebills now we're only like 20% rebills because good marketers are good marketers. They know how to shift out what's working and figure out new stuff

See this as a fantastic opportunity to grow and stop feeling sorry for yourself ( not to be a dick ) but let this make you better. I could name off at least 50 traffic sources off the top of my head you have yet to learn how to do well with. Google, Yahoo and MSN are fine but they're the small majority and usually the last place we look to buy traffic. Media network aggregators, direct buys, premium ppc, second tier ppc, social, ppv...... are just a few of the types of traffic we always look to first. Most real marketers don't want to deal with Google's bullshit. Who ever heard of a magazine that said you can't advertise in here unless your ad is about the article it's next to? Does that make ANY SENSE AT ALL? Fuck google and learn real marketing. Go back to google once you've figured out everything else. It's a great traffic source but definitely not worth crying over it not working for you anymore.

Just my 3 cents!
 
good post smaxor. ill be applying to A4D within the next 2 weeks or so (yes n00b). hopefully ill get accepted and can start making both of us some money!!
 
feardafronfz3 said:
good post smaxor. ill be applying to A4D within the next 2 weeks or so (yes n00b). hopefully ill get accepted and can start making both of us some money!!
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Sounds good just PM me and let me know.

Another thing I wanted to mention here. Each time you make another successful campaign it builds your confidence and skill set. Then each time you pick a new traffic source to work with and have a successful campaign that builds your confidence and skillset as well. Until you ge to the the point where nothing much intimidates you. You know all the lingo and how to buy, talk to reps, negotiate deals. etc etc.

But man Enjoy the journey because if you ask me it's the the journy and the learning that's fun. The money is cool. As most of you know I'm not mr bling bling baller paper stacker dude. I really enjoy all the facets of this business that make it so interesting. There is always something new to learn and the more you embrace the excitment of that the better you'll end up down the road.
 
smaxor said:
Most real marketers don't want to deal with Google's bullshit. Who ever heard of a magazine that said you can't advertise in here unless your ad is about the article it's next to? Does that make ANY SENSE AT ALL? Fuck google and learn real marketing.
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+rep.

That's got to be the best Google bash I've ever read. I'll be sure to throw that at them if I ever get the boot!
 
Smaxor (and I guess others) just out of curiosity what is your opinion of the media buyers at big agencies like Starcom and such? Worth working with from an affiliate perspective if you have the bankroll? Or do they not have a granular enough understanding of how affiliate crap works to provide value?

I spent several years working at agencies (the last of which was spent doing interactive strategy for all the Miller Lite sites at Digitas where Starcom handled the media buys) and while a lot of their tactics were great for big buys where the goals were all branding related, I never got to work with them on anything that was more focused on straight conversion ROI unfortunately.
 
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