FOREX Trading
- Thread starter jonas33h
- Start date
I'm only going to chime in this thread once with my thoughts...
1. Feel free to start trading when you feel ready OP. I don't care how much you're going to lose and neither should anyone else.
2. If you're willing to take any advice (which it appears you're not) I'll say this: The banks are trading billions of dollars per trade and they have the ABSOLUTE brightest math PhDs in the Universe (read: smarter than you, the individual trader). Even then out of the of guys I've met that work for banks on their trading floors NONE OF THEM actually trade their own money on the side. One even told me, word for word, "Oh God no!".
So now for the advice:
You make money in finance by convincing someone else to invest their money.
Do whatever you want with that advice, I'm assuming you're going to ignore it... but that sentence is literally worth millions if you think about it hard and creatively enough.
I'll leave everyone with this:
Be Smarter, Be First, or Be A Broker. You can be either of the first two, but it's a HELL of a lot easier to make a fortune being a broker. (I'd assume that goes for many businesses, not just finance.)
Sincerely,
Danke
P.S. My actual email signatures has a licensee designation number below my name.
1. Feel free to start trading when you feel ready OP. I don't care how much you're going to lose and neither should anyone else.
2. If you're willing to take any advice (which it appears you're not) I'll say this: The banks are trading billions of dollars per trade and they have the ABSOLUTE brightest math PhDs in the Universe (read: smarter than you, the individual trader). Even then out of the of guys I've met that work for banks on their trading floors NONE OF THEM actually trade their own money on the side. One even told me, word for word, "Oh God no!".
So now for the advice:
You make money in finance by convincing someone else to invest their money.
Do whatever you want with that advice, I'm assuming you're going to ignore it... but that sentence is literally worth millions if you think about it hard and creatively enough.
I'll leave everyone with this:
Be Smarter, Be First, or Be A Broker. You can be either of the first two, but it's a HELL of a lot easier to make a fortune being a broker. (I'd assume that goes for many businesses, not just finance.)
Sincerely,
Danke
P.S. My actual email signatures has a licensee designation number below my name.
I'm only going to chime in this thread once with my thoughts...
1. Feel free to start trading when you feel ready OP. I don't care how much you're going to lose and neither should anyone else.
2. If you're willing to take any advice (which it appears you're not) I'll say this: The banks are trading billions of dollars per trade and they have the ABSOLUTE brightest math PhDs in the Universe (read: smarter than you, the individual trader). Even then out of the of guys I've met that work for banks on their trading floors NONE OF THEM actually trade their own money on the side. One even told me, word for word, "Oh God no!".
So now for the advice:
You make money in finance by convincing someone else to invest their money.
Do whatever you want with that advice, I'm assuming you're going to ignore it... but that sentence is literally worth millions if you think about it hard and creatively enough.
I'll leave everyone with this:
Be Smarter, Be First, or Be A Broker. You can be either of the first two, but it's a HELL of a lot easier to make a fortune being a broker. (I'd assume that goes for many businesses, not just finance.)
Sincerely,
Danke
P.S. My actual email signatures has a licensee designation number below my name.
Was waiting for someone to say this.
But you should go ahead and do some trade anyway... Lose a few grands...
But then, You will learn that Forex is still a good niche to be in.
Also, some of the most successful Forex offers are/were on CLICKBANK..
Says a lot about the product, as well as the traget market isn't it?
And it is hot even in a hopeless International Market like India... I mean forex offers.... I mean the only thing I could ever run in volume in that market was matrimonial offers (not even dating, which sucks), and along came forex....
At least, you will get to know the psychology of the demographics first hand when you start trading.. Just like that guy who started Affiliate Marketing after buying a Bizopp trial offer.
I'm only going to chime in this thread once with my thoughts...
1. Feel free to start trading when you feel ready OP. I don't care how much you're going to lose and neither should anyone else.
2. If you're willing to take any advice (which it appears you're not) I'll say this: The banks are trading billions of dollars per trade and they have the ABSOLUTE brightest math PhDs in the Universe (read: smarter than you, the individual trader). Even then out of the of guys I've met that work for banks on their trading floors NONE OF THEM actually trade their own money on the side. One even told me, word for word, "Oh God no!".
So now for the advice:
You make money in finance by convincing someone else to invest their money.
Do whatever you want with that advice, I'm assuming you're going to ignore it... but that sentence is literally worth millions if you think about it hard and creatively enough.
I'll leave everyone with this:
Be Smarter, Be First, or Be A Broker. You can be either of the first two, but it's a HELL of a lot easier to make a fortune being a broker. (I'd assume that goes for many businesses, not just finance.)
Sincerely,
Danke
P.S. My actual email signatures has a licensee designation number below my name.
How many times do I have to say, those who can, do; and those who can't, say, no onese else can. . .
which licenses do you carry and why does that matter?
You guys are acting like I am assuming you can amass a capital trading (which I am not I actually know people who are successful at it, sucks that you weren't).
And for the record I never said that FOREX yields the same results hence why I started this thread. . . to provide a means for people to share experiences and resources to gather their own opinions about FOREX, not to have people say. . . no it's not possible just forget about it.
Ignore advice? no my position is that I can not expect your experience as fact, but the overwhelming negativity being knocked around would indicate that caution needs to take place.
and don't worry about how much money I will lose it's only paper. . . .
Anyone do FOREX trading? I'm interested in trying this I am already pretty good charting stocks and was thinking about giving this a go?
Any recommendations on good reading material/platforms to nudge me in the right direction?
Thanks,
A few books that you might find of interest:
The Financial Engineer - a Strategic Report (this was published by Euromoney Books about 20 years ago - not certain if its still available. Covers FX more from a cross-yield interest rate relationship perspective but its important to understand.
The Encyclopedia of Technical Market Indicators - Colby & Meyers
Commodity Trading Systems and Methods - Kaufman
Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds - Mackay (not certain if its in print any longer but the PDF is available online.)
Currency Wars - Rickards
Market Wizards - Schwager
And a few tips, for what they're worth:
- Risk management, or loss management, is one of the most important studies to undertake. Without it, almost every trader fails in the end.
- Know what you are trading. Read, read and read some more. Then start to analyze the market yourself. Learn everything there is to know about what you are trading, from sun-spot and wave analysis to seasonals and how monetary policy effects currencies to statistical and chart analysis.
- Know yourself. You are never right - only the market is right - you're just along for the ride. You cannot have an ego if you wish to trade successfully. Markets are driven by perceptions, fear and greed. Study and understand these emotions in yourself, in others and how such effects crowds.
- Have one or more ways to work off stress. Foreign exchange trading can be intense and stress filled. Workout, go running, build a sailboat, start a grow-op, have a hobby.
- Just because you have the ability to use leverage when trading foreign exchange, it doesn't mean that you have to use it to its fullest.
- Figure out what trading style best suits you. Day-trading? Longer term? Reactionary or trend following?
- Map out your strategy ahead of time. Know what (new position, add to position, exit all or part of a position or do nothing) you're going to do and when. Re-evaluate the strategy each day.
- Always be aware when announcements that can effect the foreign exchange market are going to be made and what the general expectations are.
- Its easier to turn $5k into $10k than it is to turn $1M into $1.5M.
- Diversify I. Selling GPB against the USD and JPY against the CAD doesn't mean that you have achieved diversification. Understand the short-term and long-term correlations between the various currencies.
- Diversify II. If you learn how to trade and manage your risk you can likely trade just about any commodity (granted, certain commodities have inherent traits) so don't be afraid to attempt trading gold, corn or even pork bellies (inb4 DanAkroydTradingPlaces.jpg).
- Diversify III. Diversify trading styles. Let's say you're a long-term trader (which may mean a few days, weeks or months) and you're long USD against the Euro. Perhaps day-trade the USD/CHF or USD/GBP. This can keep you from trading in and out of your longer term positions when you feel as though you need something to do.
- Diversify IV. Every so often, when you're running a profit, take some money off of the table and invest elsewhere (ideally in a fairly conservative investment - but in part that depends on your age and overall risk profile).
- If you're going to create or follow a black box method of trading, run it through at least 20 years of daily data and even longer periods of weekly and monthly data. Run studies across multiple markets and commodities. Analyze the data.
- Time can be just as important as price.
- Statistical, quantitative and economic data, studies and analysis are important but keep in mind that just about every year or two a market does something that it has never done before. War breaks out. Someone corners the cash market in a commodity. Fear or greed start to rule. Create "What If" scenarios.
ITT decades of combined experience all saying the same thing; don't just jump in and expect to make a ton of money.
I hope OP got the answer and will heed all of the sound advice.
My own 2c: A friend of mine from high school who was unemployed at the time did forex amateur-style for about a year and gave me the info to learn it too if I wished to do so, but I did not. I think he made some small amount like $1k/month after turning his practice account into a real one. He told me he stopped when he got a real job because whatever currency he was trading required him to be up every night from 11 pm to 6 am or something, constantly watching fluctuations and buying and selling to earn that, and he couldnt continue to do that obviously and work his 9-5.
Anyways hope that helps seeing as how it can be profitable somewhat for an amateur who jumps in and does a practice account first, although not very profitable unless you put up a lot more money.
P.S. I asked him why he didn't scale it up and make $5,000 a day or $10,000 a day (keep in mind my forex/stock knowledge is extremely limited), and he told me he was already buying on a margin account with up to $50 or $100k limit and couldn't go any further. And all that was to make his meager earnings (PPS all my numbers may be off but that was the general idea, also this was approximately 2 years ago)
I hope OP got the answer and will heed all of the sound advice.
My own 2c: A friend of mine from high school who was unemployed at the time did forex amateur-style for about a year and gave me the info to learn it too if I wished to do so, but I did not. I think he made some small amount like $1k/month after turning his practice account into a real one. He told me he stopped when he got a real job because whatever currency he was trading required him to be up every night from 11 pm to 6 am or something, constantly watching fluctuations and buying and selling to earn that, and he couldnt continue to do that obviously and work his 9-5.
Anyways hope that helps seeing as how it can be profitable somewhat for an amateur who jumps in and does a practice account first, although not very profitable unless you put up a lot more money.
P.S. I asked him why he didn't scale it up and make $5,000 a day or $10,000 a day (keep in mind my forex/stock knowledge is extremely limited), and he told me he was already buying on a margin account with up to $50 or $100k limit and couldn't go any further. And all that was to make his meager earnings (PPS all my numbers may be off but that was the general idea, also this was approximately 2 years ago)
Breaking my own rule:
Series 27, 7, 6/63, 3, & a 2-15 (Life, Health, & Variable Annuities)...
Don't mind me though, I don't know how to do...
I'm done in the thread. I actually hope you start. Markets always need new victims...
I work for chase investment service corp I also hold licensing whats your point?
So you studied for a test that teaches you nothing about how to actually make money in the markets, they teach you product knowledge and suitability not money makin' powers bro so stop kidding yourself. . .
I once studied and did a biography on Michael Jordan can I play basketball. . . no the fuck I can't.
And for the most part advisor's don't know shit on how to trade. . . . they just put people in funds selected by the firm.
So you studied for a test that teaches you nothing about how to actually make money in the markets, they teach you product knowledge and suitability not money makin' powers bro so stop kidding yourself. . .
I once studied and did a biography on Michael Jordan can I play basketball. . . no the fuck I can't.
And for the most part advisor's don't know shit on how to trade. . . . they just put people in funds selected by the firm.
I've done some work for a (huge) investment firm and what I can say about forex is that it is very, very, very risky unless you know what you are doing. If I were you I would jump in to the bonds market (corporate and government) as the risk is substantially less than forex or equities while returning a fairly good interest rate. Bonds are the future.
Yesterday I was working with the bond traders on selling some bonds of a certain (un-named) bank. Going rate for bonds that would mature in 2019 was 86 (That means for a bond which initially was 1 million, you could buy for 860,000). You got over 7% annual interest. If you bought a million of that bond right now then you would have received a total of 1,750,000 back by 2019 which roughly works out as 10.5% interest on your 1 million every year. And this bank is a big, trusted bank.
But seriously, if you don't know shit, don't trust the advisor's. Their only role is to get you to bite (even if the product is crap).
Yesterday I was working with the bond traders on selling some bonds of a certain (un-named) bank. Going rate for bonds that would mature in 2019 was 86 (That means for a bond which initially was 1 million, you could buy for 860,000). You got over 7% annual interest. If you bought a million of that bond right now then you would have received a total of 1,750,000 back by 2019 which roughly works out as 10.5% interest on your 1 million every year. And this bank is a big, trusted bank.
But seriously, if you don't know shit, don't trust the advisor's. Their only role is to get you to bite (even if the product is crap).
That does not change the fact that poker is negative sum. You are arguing over semantics.
Bunch of idiots with no real world knowledge or experience talking shit. WF is always good for laugh.
First of all, there is no "house" to always win when it comes to forex. It's a decentralized network. You can choose to trade currency futures which IS a centralized market. There are obviously pros and cons of both.
Realize that you will lose money. Maybe for many many years before you develop the skills and discipline required to be profitable and steady. The tuition is steep and there is no substitute for experience. If you are like most people, you will repeat the same expensive mistakes again and again. It's more than a purely intellectual endeavor, it requires self awareness, control over your emotions and a ton of patience. Most people will never get enough control over their own mind to be successful in the forex market.
The individual absolutely can be successful, but there is a price. It's a ton of work, time, money, and lack of sleep.
I would advise most people to stay far away, but for a few it's feasible if they have the capital, patience, and the right mind set.
Stick to the majors and never stop learning. Paper trade for as long as possible but don't expect it to be an accurate predictor of your real trading. Watch everything: oil and other commodities, equities, and world markets and central banks. It's all inter-related and it absolutely helps to understand the correlations between them.
First of all, there is no "house" to always win when it comes to forex. It's a decentralized network. You can choose to trade currency futures which IS a centralized market. There are obviously pros and cons of both.
Realize that you will lose money. Maybe for many many years before you develop the skills and discipline required to be profitable and steady. The tuition is steep and there is no substitute for experience. If you are like most people, you will repeat the same expensive mistakes again and again. It's more than a purely intellectual endeavor, it requires self awareness, control over your emotions and a ton of patience. Most people will never get enough control over their own mind to be successful in the forex market.
The individual absolutely can be successful, but there is a price. It's a ton of work, time, money, and lack of sleep.
I would advise most people to stay far away, but for a few it's feasible if they have the capital, patience, and the right mind set.
Stick to the majors and never stop learning. Paper trade for as long as possible but don't expect it to be an accurate predictor of your real trading. Watch everything: oil and other commodities, equities, and world markets and central banks. It's all inter-related and it absolutely helps to understand the correlations between them.
Very true but i'm talking comparably. As in, not a shitty greek bank but a solid investment bank with a good track record (even in 08/09).
Forex is quite often (in many places mainly) used a a hedging tool and therefore many large institutions actually expect to make small losses on lots of their transactions. Just be aware that out of all the investment opportunities you could make use of, forex is one of the more difficult ones. I'm fairly sure the average time a buy is held is something along the lines of 4 seconds? Fast moving market.
He referenced holding securities licensing as if that has anything to do with trading. . . when in fact it doesn't.
For instance I can have my real estate license that doesn't somehow qualify me to be the next donald trump, it simply teaches you how to understand what you are selling and how to process a sale . . .
So again what does licensing have to do with being good at forex, considering that none of those has anything to do with currency?
There's the problem, danke only answered the first part of the question.
Once again...
Ok, im going to give some advice for the last time:
- Markets do NOT change. Im sick and tired of hearing this crap from people. Its complete and utter crap.
- The key is in simplifying that which is complex. Doing this, will get you closer to the truth about markets.
The question is, who is willing to do this? Who is willing to dedicate a shit load of time, effort and tears so that in x years down the road they realize just how utterly simple this really is?
The fact of the matter is, markets never changes, never have and never will. The problem here is that the person who 'perceives' a change in the market has not simplified the complex.
- There is a good way to research, and a wrong way to research. Most do it wrong way. Hence the poor results and let downs.
- Most of the published information online and offline about trading, is utter crap. Regurgitated shit. Blind leading the blind.
Does anybody really believe 'learning from others' is the way to go? Who in their right frame of mind is going to hand on a silver platter REAL strategies?
Cannon fodder? Anyone?
Let me give a big hint:
Your about to cross a road...what goes through your mind?
Do you look left, right, or both ways?
You begin to cross, all of a sudden a car appears from around the corner...
Do you turn around, run, or stop still?
The car eventually goes, you begin to walk across and are halfway across the road...all of a sudden another car appears in the other direction....
What do you do? run, turn around, wait, or stand there and pull your cock out?
Markets are exactly the same. They never change, just like cars on a road will never change 'what-they-do'.
Question here is, can you 'simplify' the actions a car takes on the road?
Can you identify a plan for every action and build rules for each occurance?
Think about this carefully...
Ok, im going to give some advice for the last time:
- Markets do NOT change. Im sick and tired of hearing this crap from people. Its complete and utter crap.
- The key is in simplifying that which is complex. Doing this, will get you closer to the truth about markets.
The question is, who is willing to do this? Who is willing to dedicate a shit load of time, effort and tears so that in x years down the road they realize just how utterly simple this really is?
The fact of the matter is, markets never changes, never have and never will. The problem here is that the person who 'perceives' a change in the market has not simplified the complex.
- There is a good way to research, and a wrong way to research. Most do it wrong way. Hence the poor results and let downs.
- Most of the published information online and offline about trading, is utter crap. Regurgitated shit. Blind leading the blind.
Does anybody really believe 'learning from others' is the way to go? Who in their right frame of mind is going to hand on a silver platter REAL strategies?
Cannon fodder? Anyone?
Let me give a big hint:
Your about to cross a road...what goes through your mind?
Do you look left, right, or both ways?
You begin to cross, all of a sudden a car appears from around the corner...
Do you turn around, run, or stop still?
The car eventually goes, you begin to walk across and are halfway across the road...all of a sudden another car appears in the other direction....
What do you do? run, turn around, wait, or stand there and pull your cock out?
Markets are exactly the same. They never change, just like cars on a road will never change 'what-they-do'.
Question here is, can you 'simplify' the actions a car takes on the road?
Can you identify a plan for every action and build rules for each occurance?
Think about this carefully...
Erm, yes they do? Areas of world growth change, economic principles behind investing change, methods of investing change (eg. computer). Markets DO change, you just have to know enough to earn from it.
Yes? How do you think countless people have learned in the financial sector? They will give you advice for financial incentive or sometimes fame incentive. Investing is NOT as simple as someone wins and someone loses, it is possible for both to win as the amount of value in the world is not fixed. If someone is getting money from teaching you the basic principles behind investing then provided they are themselves a reasonably good investor, you will learn some useful stuff that has more chance of working than randomly picking.
You did not get it.
What we define as markets are the people participating in it.
Market = its participants.
Market = fear and greed of its participants, combined with their perceived knowledge.
Price is the result of it.
How the financial sector learns is irrelevant. Most of them don't trade; those who do learned like everyone else: getting their theory down and start doing it.
We are also not talking investment, we are talking forex. Here someone has to take the other side of your trade.If not, you will not get filled. One wins, one loses.
Apple and oranges.
a few points:
- People who burned their $200 account on a 1:400 margin will talk forex down. That`s ok. Remember only 1% will be profitable trading fx, find out for yourself if you are one of them.
- Doing so will cost you money. Get this straight: you will pay for your education. You will lose trades, you will lose money.
That`s part of your education. How you handle this psychological will decide on a big part if you are to stay or not.
- Psychology plays a big part. Forex is a fast paced market if you day trade. Don't let emotions run your decisions.
Your state of mind has to be neutral; you don't get exited when you win and don't get angry if you lose; you stick to your trading plan and that's it.
Your trading plan doesn't work ? Evolve it; while you are doing so you will keep paying school money.
- Evolve a trading plan with proper money and risk management.
Get your own set of entry criterias, find out which time frame's suits you.
Some trade on tick or minute charts and scalp the markets, others trade on technical or fundamental analysis on daily or weekly's.
There are Industrial participants and trading bots, trend followers and pure risk hedgers. Find your place in the jungle.
- There are trading bots. They don't work. They are the Acai of the Fx world. There are trading bots at the big institutions which have access to their order book and trade on that data and turn a profit, but everything retail is crap.
- You are swimming with sharks. Don't fight them, let them lead.
You get in the way of the market and he will spit you out.
- Retail has the advantage over institutional that he can get in and out of the market fast. Use it. Don't let losers run.
- Don't waste your time with a 200$ account when you go live.
After you got your basics down with paper trading, you still didn't make one step with your psychological training. Fund your account with 10k and write them down as lost.
- you can trade fx in spot, futures and options. One may suit you better then others.
- if you are not prepared to invest substantial time, money and effort into learning to trade the markets,don't even start.
- People who say forex is gambling are doing it wrong.
- Trading isn't for everyone. It can change your life,or it can be a episode which did cost you a few grand. You will have to find out for yourself.
If you do, don't gamble; do it right.
- Price is everything.
my 2c ,for what it's worth.