Family law judge beats own daughter for using the internet.

[Moxie]

I don't think it's abusive. Then again, I don't think spanking is abusive either.

I think they're on the same level, really. People who disapprove of spanking should disapprove of simulated neglect.

Why are angry prisoners suppose to be ignored or restrained and not given beatings instead?

If a full grown adult throws a tantrum at an NFL game, option one might be to ask them to stop. Option two would be to tell them they have to leave (the NFL ignoring them basically). The final option might be police getting them out of the building or into a jail cell, but attacking the person never suppose to enter the procedure unless it is needed to defend people.

The person likely would be angry at the security guard for just asking to them to stop, but they are going to be a hell of a lot more angry if the guard had just come up and started hitting them. They would be even more angry if the guard was five times bigger than them.

 

[moneypartners]

She was 16 holy seems to me like it could be even sexual assault

 

[Ar Scion]

Why are angry prisoners suppose to be ignored or restrained and not given beatings instead?

If a full grown adult throws a tantrum at an NFL game, option one might be to ask them to stop. Option two would be to tell them they have to leave (the NFL ignoring them basically). The final option might be police getting them out of the building or into a jail cell, but attacking the person never suppose to enter the procedure unless it is needed to defend people.

The person likely would be angry at the security guard for just asking to them to stop, but they are going to be a hell of a lot more angry if the guard had just come up and started hitting them. They would be even more angry if the guard was five times bigger than them.

You tell me. What makes physical punishment so arbitrarily horrendous, while psychological punishment is tolerable?

With physical punishment there is a clear physical danger if overstepped. The risk of death or permanent disability is a serious one and should not be ignored.

But psychological punishment isn't devoid of such risks are they? Does anyone make any effort to look into the number of neurotic, anxious, self-esteem-lacking, validation and attention-craving kids out there?

Fuck man, tell me, do people like Osama bin Laden, the Columbine killers, every kid who ever killed themselves because of bullying, you think all these guys were spanked? Or were there something psychologically fucked up about their childhood?

What's the deal with this weird dichotomy of demonizing physical abuse while blissfully ignoring the problems inherent in psychological approaches? Is it the trend in the latest parenting magazines?

Physical violence is just made out to be this tremendous negative emotion trigger in our society. Shit, we can't even order a steak in this country without being guilt tripped by PETA because the butchers committed an act of violence against the cow.

 

[Moxie]

You tell me. What makes physical punishment so arbitrarily horrendous, while psychological punishment is tolerable?

Why would Jon look like a psycho if he went up to people at a conference and hit them with a stick, but not if he banned them from the forum?

Does anyone make any effort to look into the number of neurotic, anxious, self-esteem-lacking, validation and attention-craving kids out there?

Yes, researchers do look into that and what they find is those kids are more likely to have been physically abused.

Fuck man, tell me, do people like Osama bin Laden, the Columbine killers, every kid who ever killed themselves because of bullying, you think all these guys were spanked? Or were there something psychologically fucked up about their childhood?

We were specifically talking about ignoring kids if they have a tantrum. There are many non-violent punishments that would qualify as abuse, but "ignoring" a kid while they have a "normal" tantrum would not be one of them.

What's the deal with this weird dichotomy of demonizing physical abuse while blissfully ignoring the problems inherent in psychological approaches? Is it the trend in the latest parenting magazines?

Non-violent abuse is also studied and has been for years. I wouldn't say there is a trend, as I already mentioned Freud was against spanking 100 years ago. Dr. Benjamin Spock was also against it and his parenting book first came out in the 1940s. It has sold over 50 million copies and is still a best seller.

Physical violence is just made out to be this tremendous negative emotion trigger in our society.

I thought this was considered common sense for humans that aren't sociopaths.

 

[turbolapp]

You tell me. What makes physical punishment so arbitrarily horrendous, while psychological punishment is tolerable?

With physical punishment there is a clear physical danger if overstepped. The risk of death or permanent disability is a serious one and should not be ignored.

But psychological punishment isn't devoid of such risks are they? Does anyone make any effort to look into the number of neurotic, anxious, self-esteem-lacking, validation and attention-craving kids out there?

There's no dichotomy. Neglect is actually worse than abuse. If you had to pick your evils, physically laying your hands on your children is actually going to only wind up with unhealthy, maladjusted, asocial children where as full on, prolonged neglect will end up with puddles of goo that used to resemble a human psyche.

However, your Red Herring attempt still has it has nothing to do with the original argument of using physical punishment for discipline.

 

[Ar Scion]

There's no dichotomy. Neglect is actually worse than abuse. If you had to pick your evils, physically laying your hands on your children is actually going to only wind up with unhealthy, maladjusted, asocial children where as full on, prolonged neglect will end up with puddles of goo that used to resemble a human psyche.

However, your Red Herring attempt still has it has nothing to do with the original argument of using physical punishment for discipline.

Why would Jon look like a psycho if he went up to people at a conference and hit them with a stick, but not if he banned them from the forum?

Yes, researchers do look into that and what they find is those kids are more likely to have been physically abused.

We were specifically talking about ignoring kids if they have a tantrum. There are many non-violent punishments that would qualify as abuse, but "ignoring" a kid while they have a "normal" tantrum would not be one of them.

Non-violent abuse is also studied and has been for years. I wouldn't say there is a trend, as I already mentioned Freud was against spanking 100 years ago. Dr. Benjamin Spock was also against it and his parenting book first came out in the 1940s. It has sold over 50 million copies and is still a best seller.

I thought this was considered common sense for humans that aren't sociopaths.

What if there kid has a serious problem and you assume "ain't nuthin' wrong", the kid's just tantrumming?

Whatever problems people have with corporal punishment, you have the exact same risk with psychological approaches: misreading signals, overdoing it, doing it based on your state rather than the child's, etc.

What if, for example instead of stopping the tantrum the child interprets his parent's behavior as neglect? "I'm truly suffering and my parents don't care!"

The bottom line is not what people would "look like". Of course people "look bad" if they resorted to physical violence, because of the negative emotion trigger. It's that we're being irrational when we demonize physical punishment when psychological punishment has the same problems.

Part of it is because people don't learn to judge objectively.

 

[turbolapp]

What if there kid has a serious problem and you assume "ain't nuthin' wrong", the kid's just tantrumming?

Whatever problems people have with corporal punishment, you have the exact same risk with psychological approaches: misreading signals, overdoing it, doing it based on your state rather than the child's, etc.

What if, for example instead of stopping the tantrum the child interprets his parent's behavior as neglect? "I'm truly suffering and my parents don't care!"

The bottom line is not what people would "look like". Of course people "look bad" if they resorted to physical violence, because of the negative emotion trigger. It's that we're being irrational when we demonize physical punishment when psychological punishment has the same problems.

Part of it is because people don't learn to judge objectively.

I really don't mean any disrespect and I know this is going to sound condesending but you really wouldn't have these questions if you have kids. Probably because you would know that while all the 2 year old knows is I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT. You KNOW that what he really wants is a nap.

Listen, you're nitpicking. Every day is different, bringing fun new aspects to parenting. But if you're a good parent you will tune into your kids needs, they will know you love them AND that you love being around them WHEN they behave. If there's actually something wrong (they're sick, hungry, tired) you'll know that too and address it after they've calmed down (of course if there's something really really wrong they're not throwing tantrums so it's moot). I'm not going to say parenting is simple (so hard in so many ways) but it's not a complex idea to grasp.

I'll stop now as I think we're just going round and round on irrelevant topics. But if I leave a lasting thought in this argument, I hope it would be:

Do your research. Ask yourself if what your doing makes sense. Seek a better way.

 

[Kstanki2]

Sorry I don't want to be a virtual white knight. My mom and stepdad gave me beatings that make this one look like a cake-walk.


She got hit with a belt, so what? Beside myself and my siblings, most of my friends got the same shit. Guess what? I would not admit it then, but I will now, we all deserved it. I would not change a thing about my childhood.


If she would have just turned over it would have been over in 10 seconds. I used to do the same shit, I know the game she is playing. She was being disobedient under her dads roof.

Until she's 18 she has to go by her dads rules, if she doesn't like it, move.



Getting tired of the community and gov telling people how to raise their kids.



I will note if he was punching her for no reason, of course that's unacceptable.

This is a belt whipping for not turning the fuck around. Big deal.

We are talking about a human, not a dog, you can't expect to train such a sophisticated mind by hitting them like an ape when they disobey. I was hit plenty as a kid and I didn't learn a fucking thing from it, it made me resent my parents and I acted up more just to spite them. Physical pain inflicted by a parent is not a deterrent against anything, I don't know anyone who stopped doing the shit they got beat for just because they got beat- it's a way for the parent to vent their frustration, not for the child to learn anything or gain any values.

 

[wiredniko]

If you guys decide to have a child please read Between Parent and Child by Haim Ginott.

Arguing that beating a 16 year old is justified, what the fuck is wrong with you people?

Stop thinking like drones.

 

[cardine]

Fuck all of you who think conditioning is a proper way to raise a kid.

Conditioning a kid from a young age is sure fire way to ensure that you have a kid who acts in a certain way 'because they're afraid of the repercussions' and not acting in a certain way 'because it's the right thing to do'.

It is lazy parenting to only care about getting your child to behave and not to care about why they are behaving. If your kid doesn't understand or accept what they did was wrong, but they are afraid to do it because you will physically abuse them, what good have you really accomplished?

 

[turbolapp]

Interesting: In Sweden, a generation of kids who've never been spanked - CNN.com

Pretty much echos all the arguments for and against in here.

 

[imbo55]

It's clear the father got too much enjoyment out of it.. And the mother - she's no better. Clearly the mother probably received the same treatment.

Just a sick and fucked up family all around! Not sure why it's prime time news.... His career is over! Clearly the mother colluded with the daughter due to the families ongoing child custody matters.

This is not prime time news it should be on Jerry Springer where it belongs!

 

[lukep]

Interesting: In Sweden, a generation of kids who've never been spanked - CNN.com

Pretty much echos all the arguments for and against in here.

Awesome Article. SO Many quoteable points in it; but I think I'll choose to drop this small one:

The United States and Somalia are the only two countries that haven't ratified the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, an international treaty that recognizes the human rights of people younger than 18.

You fucking backwoods cannibals... :conehead:

 

[grazie]

If you have to beat your child with a belt over extended periods of time you're failing pretty hard at parenting. I'm not saying kids don't need a smack here and there but to fucking take turns beating your child about the arms, legs, and ass with a belt and saying things like "hold on I didn't get my licks in", then you have some SERIOUS fucking issues. This beating was clearly an outlet for this faggots inner rage, it was about him releasing anger and not disciplining his child.

^this

also, saying shit like "i'm gonna beat you into submission"...

this guy has serious fucking issues. was highly upset watching this shit