Discussing Rebills, Google and the implications for AM

mGrunin said:
Slight problem is that many people have already been victimized by rebills that have made it very difficult to cancel their subscription. So even if we flaunt the fact the it's risk free, and money back guarantee, and that they have 30 days to try the product, some people may be afraid that they won't be able to get in touch with anyone to cancel.
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That's very true... but those aren't really your buyers. Plus there are always people that will be afraid to buy whether it's a rebill or not -- even if they've never been through rebill hell before.

mGrunin said:
Another thing, if people were more aware that they will be charged after an X amount of days, then advertisers would be seeing many more leads not backing out, because almost all rebills are useless and don't work. Thus, there will either be more scrubbing, or payout's would be chopped in half.
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I'm guessing you meant to write, "many more leads would be backing out." Sure, they'll be more refunds, especially if the products do not perform as claimed but you'd be suprised just how little the refund rate increases. People simply forget about shit they buy and get their CC's charged month after month before they get off their ass to do something about it. Especially if they're multi-buyers like weight-loss addicts chasing the next fad.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the problem lies with the fact that people really do believe that it's free trial w/ just S&H and no strings attached. Then they get billed, can't cancel and all hell breaks loose.

And if the TOS was right in their face - yes, conversions would drop some - and refunds would increase some -- but all in all, the profits would still be there and there would be a lot less consumer complaints.
 


megatabbers said:
That's very true... but those aren't really your buyers. Plus there are always people that will be afraid to buy whether it's a rebill or not -- even if they've never been through rebill hell before.



I'm guessing you meant to write, "many more leads would be backing out." Sure, they'll be more refunds, especially if the products do not perform as claimed but you'd be suprised just how little the refund rate increases. People simply forget about shit they buy and get their CC's charged month after month before they get off their ass to do something about it. Especially if they're multi-buyers like weight-loss addicts chasing the next fad.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the problem lies with the fact that people really do believe that it's free trial w/ just S&H and no strings attached. Then they get billed, can't cancel and all hell breaks loose.

And if the TOS was right in their face - yes, conversions would drop some - and refunds would increase some -- but all in all, the profits would still be there and there would be a lot less consumer complaints.
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By that phrase I meant that less leads would successfully go beyond the rebill date.

I understand what you saying, but that $70 monthly charge plastered right under the credit card field may be enough to either get those individuals away from the product, or closely monitor their purchase, and make sure that they don't pass that rebill date. If the consumer sees the $70/monthly charge, and they still continue with their purchase, then I am dead sure that they will try to do their best in not forgetting about the subscription, especially when the economy is in crap. The reason why many people go past the rebill date is because they don't know there is an additional rebill, they think that shipping charge was the last charge.

Lastly, the foundation of the "change" all lies on first creating a useful, helpful product.
 
megatabbers said:
I don't think that's the case. If the trial period was more reasonable in length (i.e. 30 days vs. a measly 14) and the TOS was more visible... it might actually increase conversions.
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Actually it is the case.

But thanks for your unproven theory.
 
i've been getting the impression some of the bigger rebill advertisers are growing up a bit (maybe they see the writing on the wall?). i keep seeing stuff like "free for 14 days" instead of "free trial". that in itself is a step in the right direction.
 
I've seen several companies plastered their Rebill Terms in 10 sized font right beside the order button and most of the customers apparently don't read it (they complained about the rebill afterward to me).
 
^ and you have this info by way of running one yourself?
Ive spoken with people who setup the back ends of G biz opps who say differently....

G biz opps, however profitable, are bringing unneccessary attn to our industry. Negative attn..
And like the Mob, when the wrong attn comes, something must be done.
 
Great discussion..but I don't think the answer lies in running from the "issue", which in turns actually makes it an issue. I've seen a few products that bill this rebill as a special thing, something to be a part of....why not, instead of burying the charge, make being rebilled a bonus?

Instead of "YOU WILL BE CHARGED AFTER 14 DAYS" why not a simple, "Order before *date in 4 days* and be automatically enrolled in the Members Club price!" in which the member's club is not the first months price, but a discount. Example... First month is 60 but if you listen to our bullshit time contsraint, you're enrolled for 40 bucks a month until you cancel.

It not only secures your upfront value to the affiliates/marketers/your own biz as an advertiser...it creates backend value that builds off a well-framed buying relationship.

This incorporates the guarantee PLUS a discount on the product for giving it a try....naturally the product can't be shit though.
 
megatabbers said:
I don't think that's the case. If the trial period was more reasonable in length (i.e. 30 days vs. a measly 14) and the TOS was more visible... it might actually increase conversions. Rebills have been around forever and will continue to be so.

It's a strong an offer as it can get: "Try this risk-free. If it doesn't do everything we say it will - send it back and you pay nothing."
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No you are wrong. people hate crap products. WoW is one of very few games that change the history of video games. People love to be rebilled from WoW, simple, because it's really a nice game.

People love to be rebilled ONLY from the things they love most. Would you want to be rebilled for your internet connection? Of course. But would you want to get a new diet pill every 30 days? Not even for viagra!

The merchants become shady because they know they sell crap products. Out from 1000 online merchants, probably only 50 of them sell good stuffs. Not even Norton included in these 50 :repuke:
 
affiliatearmy said:
^ and you have this info by way of running one yourself?
Ive spoken with people who setup the back ends of G biz opps who say differently....

G biz opps, however profitable, are bringing unneccessary attn to our industry. Negative attn..
And like the Mob, when the wrong attn comes, something must be done.
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this.. +rep.
 
affiliatearmy said:
^ and you have this info by way of running one yourself?
Ive spoken with people who setup the back ends of G biz opps who say differently....
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With a free trial attached? No way. As a straight sale? Sure, but then no one will run it. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

cherry_yuya said:
I've seen several companies plastered their Rebill Terms in 10 sized font right beside the order button and most of the customers apparently don't read it (they complained about the rebill afterward to me).
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This. Yes, there is shady merchants, crappy support and a crappy product. But the customer itself is just as big a problem. They don't read. They aren't particularly bright. They don't learn. And quite a few tend to make things up.

Unless you start marketing book club rebills, the customer will remain an issue.
 
m0rtal said:
Great point. But there's also another issue I see. Who's going to step up to the plate to be the first one and will others follow?

As it stands there is still plenty of traffic sources and these guys are still making a killing so they could care less whether you can or can't advertise on the big 3 and social networks. So are YOU going to come out with this more legit rebill and higher quality product/service and take all the risk with rolling it out? Who's going to promote it for you? The guy making $6 epc on a less legit rebill? You think yours will do better with some red bolded font stating the terms on all 3 pages of your order process?

It all comes down to profit. If there was ONE acai/resv/shitholecleaner merchant then there could be a transition that is made but when you have hundreds competing against each other for millions of dollars nobody cares because it all comes down to profit. Ok, obviously some care more than others but you get the point I'm trying to make.

There's plenty of places where you can do 1 time sales of all the popular re-bill products, why aren't you promoting any of that and cutting your profit margins?

When the time comes (probably sooner than later) the merchants will adapt, in the meantime they'll keep laughing all the way to the bank.

Again, I'm not disagreeing with you here but it's because of the above that this hasn't happened yet. And, we don't live in a perfect world so bank as hard as you can till the shit anvil drops at which point things will have to change whether anyone likes it or not. There's thousands of people holding their ccs in the air at this moment shitting bricks about finding THE weight loss solution or THE perfect online business opportunity they've been looking for and I'm gonna go and get my commission before you do cause if I don't and you don't, another affiliate will.
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well stated.
 
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