I was working it out too quickly. I'm as retarded as the people who agree with that meme.
Checkmate
- Thread starter mikeshinobi
- Start date
I was working it out too quickly. I'm as retarded as the people who agree with that meme.
If the minimum wage was raised to $100 a Big Mac would go from $3.99 to $12.83. Who cares about the cost of a $13 Big Mac when you're making $100 an hour. To hell with being lifted out of poverty, we'd all be fucking rich.
Of course, like the people who conducted those studies I didn't take in to account the increased cost of all capital goods and other workers making more than minimum wage who will expect an equally proportionate wage increase for their skill set.
Does half of Wickedfire work minimum wage jobs? Nevermind.
What about minimum wage for entrepreneurs? Fuck losing money on marketing campaigns, wasting months of your life working for free on a business that fails or falling into the red to cover payroll so your employees can eat while you bleed your life savings away?
How about for affiliates? I say we pass a law that all affiliates earn $15 an hour - despite whether they drive any traffic or sales or not - we can't have people working for free or taking risks out there.
And commissioned sales people too. I don't care if sales guy #1 closes $20 million a year while sales guy #2 doesn't even show up to work. We're all equal. Why should sales guy #1 earn more money?
Better yet, let's have complete government oversight and regulation over every voluntary financial transaction that we make. Did you write up a business proposal and get turned down? You should get paid for that. Did you try to sell your Ipad on Craigslist and no one bought? You wrote that ad, you deserve to get paid. And if you don't get paid, we should fine/kidnap/shoot someone to make it right.
You people who believe this shit realize that minimum wage is voluntary, right? No one is forcing anyone to accept jobs at that pay. I've worked for minimum wage before and was grateful for the opportunity - and then I turned 17.
And I've worked for free many times since then. Just writing this post is taking my time and energy, Jon owes me $20.
Wait, I know - let's have a "maximum" wage too - no one earns less than $15 an hour and no one earns more than $20 an hour. That'll show those greedy bastards who take initiative and produce value that people voluntarily pay money for.
Value for value voluntary exchanges vs. price controls enforced at the barrel of a gun... I wonder what the moral, just and economically viable thing to do is? To me it's an easy question.
For whatever reason many seem to believe that the kid saving up for his first car offering to shovel your driveway for $10 shouldn't be allowed to do so, and if you agree to the deal you (or him) should be fined, arrested or shot.
The Government likes monopolies. They like dependence. They like control, power and violence. Why do they want to enforce a minimum wage?
What are the incentives? You're supposed to be marketers - think sticks and carrots.
If you can't put the pieces of that puzzle together I sure as hell wouldn't hire you for $15 an hour.
What about minimum wage for entrepreneurs? Fuck losing money on marketing campaigns, wasting months of your life working for free on a business that fails or falling into the red to cover payroll so your employees can eat while you bleed your life savings away?
How about for affiliates? I say we pass a law that all affiliates earn $15 an hour - despite whether they drive any traffic or sales or not - we can't have people working for free or taking risks out there.
And commissioned sales people too. I don't care if sales guy #1 closes $20 million a year while sales guy #2 doesn't even show up to work. We're all equal. Why should sales guy #1 earn more money?
Better yet, let's have complete government oversight and regulation over every voluntary financial transaction that we make. Did you write up a business proposal and get turned down? You should get paid for that. Did you try to sell your Ipad on Craigslist and no one bought? You wrote that ad, you deserve to get paid. And if you don't get paid, we should fine/kidnap/shoot someone to make it right.
You people who believe this shit realize that minimum wage is voluntary, right? No one is forcing anyone to accept jobs at that pay. I've worked for minimum wage before and was grateful for the opportunity - and then I turned 17.
And I've worked for free many times since then. Just writing this post is taking my time and energy, Jon owes me $20.
Wait, I know - let's have a "maximum" wage too - no one earns less than $15 an hour and no one earns more than $20 an hour. That'll show those greedy bastards who take initiative and produce value that people voluntarily pay money for.
Value for value voluntary exchanges vs. price controls enforced at the barrel of a gun... I wonder what the moral, just and economically viable thing to do is? To me it's an easy question.
For whatever reason many seem to believe that the kid saving up for his first car offering to shovel your driveway for $10 shouldn't be allowed to do so, and if you agree to the deal you (or him) should be fined, arrested or shot.
The Government likes monopolies. They like dependence. They like control, power and violence. Why do they want to enforce a minimum wage?
What are the incentives? You're supposed to be marketers - think sticks and carrots.
If you can't put the pieces of that puzzle together I sure as hell wouldn't hire you for $15 an hour.
Congrats to mikeshinobi on the most effective troll post I've seen this month. There should be an award for this category at the WF oscars.
i kinda find that interesting, coming from the most trollable bastard this forum has ever seen.
I think people should be paid according to minimum cost of living in their area. Now I don't know how it's calculated, but I know it definitely isn't a livable wage like it was meant to be.
No one can progress on $200/week unless they live with their parents, at least in Florida. Yea, you could argue that these are just jobs meant for teenagers, but not everyone has the same circumstances.
USPS "mailmen" (public/government institution) make an average of $56k/year and all they do is weigh and sort your shit.
Why could they make a decent living wage, yet someone who works at a restaurant (private institution) who works much harder only make maybe half that?
Capitalism isn't the problem, though. It's pussy politicians that are scared of being called socialists whenever they confront problems like these.
If you want 100% capitalism, then keep dreaming because that's not going to happen simply because the world isn't perfect.
Now, I want to put as much profit as possible into my pocket. No doubt about that, but the system is fucked and it needs to change.
No one can progress on $200/week unless they live with their parents, at least in Florida. Yea, you could argue that these are just jobs meant for teenagers, but not everyone has the same circumstances.
USPS "mailmen" (public/government institution) make an average of $56k/year and all they do is weigh and sort your shit.
Why could they make a decent living wage, yet someone who works at a restaurant (private institution) who works much harder only make maybe half that?
Capitalism isn't the problem, though. It's pussy politicians that are scared of being called socialists whenever they confront problems like these.
If you want 100% capitalism, then keep dreaming because that's not going to happen simply because the world isn't perfect.
Now, I want to put as much profit as possible into my pocket. No doubt about that, but the system is fucked and it needs to change.
Pretty terrifying for everyone of all income levels when you think about it.
Short term: we need poor people/working class people to have enough expendable income to buy shit we sell.
Long term: in like 10 years even doctors and gay webmasters could be replaced with software/kiosks/dickroll bots/etc.
I was talking with a girl one time who said "It's bullshit that professional athletes make millions, while teachers make nothing"...
I had to explain that athletes can command that market value, because they sell tickets, they sell merch and ads, they draw millions of people who will pay money to watch them play. The same goes for movie stars, etc.
A teacher doesn't have to live on the government payroll. If you're good at something you can teach it privately and charge whatever you want. Like it or not, your income is a choice - it's a reflection of the value the world wants to pay you. I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, but for the most part, you're paid based on the value you bring to the world.
The USPS is going broke because they can't compete with private companies. Government workers get paid with stolen money. It's easy to malinvest money that doesn't belong to you.
"Capitalism" is what happens when people are free to make voluntary transactions. I'd agree that politicians are the problem, but for completely different reasons.
Yeah, the system is fucked and it needs to change.
The state collected $5.7 trillion in tax revenue last year (Fed/state/local combined). That's $18,000+ for every citizen. That's NOT counting hidden taxes like licenses, court costs, fines, inflation, etc...
...Maybe if they'd stop fucking the economy and robbing people of their money idiots wouldn't have to argue about the minimum wage.
"We need a living wage!" Then stop supporting the institution that steals over half of your income to bomb innocent children and uses brute force to monopolize every profitable market in the world - then everyone could easily earn a living wage.
Holy fuck, we're dropping bombs on kids daily, we have the largest prison population in the history of the world, you have a gestapo marching around who are 5x more likely to kill you than a terrorist (and probably 1000x more likely to steal your property or cause you physical harm) and we're arguing about how much people should be "allowed" to earn for in jobs that are completely voluntary?
How fucked is that entire conversation? "MURDER! STEAL! RAPE! PILLAGE! But protect the FAST FOOD WORKERS!"
Maybe - just maybe - the source of all of these problems is the fact that people happily support a murderous, thieving institution who must steal to finance everything it does, creates no value and destroys exponentially more life and property than any other force on the planet - and then hope to use that same violence to solve the problems that it causes?
Damn you Shinobi, I have better stuff to do than try to explain that "violence is bad, mmkay?"... If it's a troll well played sir.
The problem with minimum wage is that it reinforces the symbolic connection between money and work. In a few short years, most low skilled workers will be out of jobs, possibly causing massive social upheavel. I would agree with Mr.Gates who claims that minimum wage can act as a catalyst and may speed up the replacement of human labour. All the better I say. It's a dream come true if you think about it.
Why not leverage the rise of machines to provide at least food and shelter to everyone? Pressuring people into low pay work using fear of starvation is pretty useless if there are no burger joints accepting human workers.
Good for us, geo arbitrage will continue to work for a while so don't fire your VAs yet.
But in the future? Why not create a positive world of opportunity for everyone? If you think about it, the only thing with true universal value is energy, electricity and even that becomes attainable for everyone thanks to improvements in solar tech and possibly fusion reactors in the future.
Why not leverage the rise of machines to provide at least food and shelter to everyone? Pressuring people into low pay work using fear of starvation is pretty useless if there are no burger joints accepting human workers.
Good for us, geo arbitrage will continue to work for a while so don't fire your VAs yet.
But in the future? Why not create a positive world of opportunity for everyone? If you think about it, the only thing with true universal value is energy, electricity and even that becomes attainable for everyone thanks to improvements in solar tech and possibly fusion reactors in the future.
If you can't earn a salary high enough to live in the area you're in, you can do this thing I like to call moving.
Also, why should people who work harder get paid more? The level of effort you put in is nothing to do with the value you can create. I can spend all day devising the ultimate command and conquer strategy, and then spend the next day intensely playing the game, implementing and executing that strategy. I'm working damn hard to do that, but should I get paid for that, like a CEO who is taking a risk on a new product that'll create 3000 jobs in a city? A risk that if it goes tits up, could get him fired, or lose shareholders billions of dollars? Or if it pays off, could generate billions of dollars in value?
The whole argument is complete and utter madness.
The world isn't fair. Working hard alone is not a reason to earn more money. Largely speaking, you earn the value you contribute. If you're not earning enough money, then find a way to contribute more value to the world. If your job is something that a robot can do, or will be doing shortly, then you need to find a way to add more value than executing mindless repetitive tasks.
As an aside, long term capitalism does present a challenge, and that is what happens when computers are more able than we are universally? And humans are incapable of delivering anything of value? When a CEO does his job worse than a robot could?
How do people make money then, and what happens to capitalism?