Anyone sick of scrubs? We are.

[affiliatearmy]

Dont know about you guys, but this week has been bullshit for us.

I wont call out networks on this, but I might answer pms if someone I know wants to know, but IMHO the scrubs are done at the advertiser level, not network, at least with these offers.

Here's the deal:
They dish you out some nice convo's..get you all primed and hot with ROI.
Then, day #2, magically, same ads, same targets, same EVERYTHING, ROI goes to the shitter.
Ive never spoken with the advertisers, so I dont know if they do this simply to cost average down, or try and get cheap leads/sales.

Here is one offer this week, (CPA)..and yes, a biz opp:
635 1 0.16% $0.06

$35.00​

635 is clicks to offer, 1 is the conversion.

A week before,
11 2 18.18% $6.73

$74.00​

11 clicks total, 2 conversions. Mind you, the offer directly above is the original offer, the one above that is a REDIRECT when the other caps out. " hint "RED color". Question: Hey networks: WTF redirect an offer if it isnt going to EVER convert?
=========================================
Now this offer, we have ran on 3 networks. It basically goes down the same way every time, with each network:
Here is a CPL offer:

Day 1:
881 168 19.07% $0.30

$260.40
​

Clicks | conversions etc etc

And now, day #2:
1,014 24 2.37% $0.04

$37.20​

So, did the demo all of a sudden change overnight and decide they dont like this offer? No. The clicks/leads came as they did the same before-all legit.
This is a scrub.
19% to 2%...
FU advertiser. Nice game.
I would out the a-hole advertiser right here right now, but I think some might think Im a shill or some other BS, so Im keeping my mouth shut in public. But this kind of stuff pisses me off. Most of us in AM spend ALOT of time and money testing, tweaking and specializing in getting good traffic. When a thief comes into the mix, after all the hard work is done, it is more than frustrating. And I know this shit can happen on the pub side too...its just the dark/shitty side of AM.

 

[acemenace]

its just the dark/shitty side of AM.

mostly bizopp.

 

[Refrozen]

Its really the iffy offers like rebills/biz opp and email submits almost exclusively. Edit: in my experience.

 

[conjamuk]

I have completely stopped all my Biz Opp campaigns. Insane amounts of scrubbing.

 

[Sticks79]

PPS = no scrubbing, simple math.

 

[Seema]

I've noticed that they give you some early treats and then shit on you from a large height.

 

[papajohn56]

is there a rule against outing them here?

 

[Seema]

is there a rule against outing them here?

Outing who exactly? I think you'll find all advertisers with Bizz Ops are scrubbing. You gonna write a list of every network there is?

 

[xmcp123]

Dont know about you guys, but this week has been bullshit for us.

I wont call out networks on this, but I might answer pms if someone I know wants to know, but IMHO the scrubs are done at the advertiser level, not network, at least with these offers.

Here's the deal:
They dish you out some nice convo's..get you all primed and hot with ROI.
Then, day #2, magically, same ads, same targets, same EVERYTHING, ROI goes to the shitter.
Ive never spoken with the advertisers, so I dont know if they do this simply to cost average down, or try and get cheap leads/sales.

Here is one offer this week, (CPA)..and yes, a biz opp:
635 1 0.16% $0.06

$35.00​

635 is clicks to offer, 1 is the conversion.

A week before,
11 2 18.18% $6.73

$74.00​

11 clicks total, 2 conversions. Mind you, the offer directly above is the original offer, the one above that is a REDIRECT when the other caps out. " hint "RED color". Question: Hey networks: WTF redirect an offer if it isnt going to EVER convert?
=========================================
Now this offer, we have ran on 3 networks. It basically goes down the same way every time, with each network:
Here is a CPL offer:

Day 1:
881 168 19.07% $0.30

$260.40
​

Clicks | conversions etc etc

And now, day #2:
1,014 24 2.37% $0.04

$37.20​

So, did the demo all of a sudden change overnight and decide they dont like this offer? No. The clicks/leads came as they did the same before-all legit.
This is a scrub.
19% to 2%...
FU advertiser. Nice game.
I would out the a-hole advertiser right here right now, but I think some might think Im a shill or some other BS, so Im keeping my mouth shut in public. But this kind of stuff pisses me off. Most of us in AM spend ALOT of time and money testing, tweaking and specializing in getting good traffic. When a thief comes into the mix, after all the hard work is done, it is more than frustrating. And I know this shit can happen on the pub side too...its just the dark/shitty side of AM.

Even non biz-opp is getting ridiculous.
Today on one(5-6 field lead) I'm losing more traffic to the scrub than to people not filling out the form. As in X% fill it out, and the scrub rate is (1.5*X)%
That's right. The scrub rate is higher than my true conversion rate. I don't even know what the fuck to do in that situation; there's really not much room to improve this campaign on my end....
This is fucking insane.

 

[affiliatearmy]

^I hear you.

 

[DoldGigga]

This is a scrub.
19% to 2%...
FU advertiser. Nice game.
I would out the a-hole advertiser right here right now, but I think some might think Im a shill or some other BS, so Im keeping my mouth shut in public. But this kind of stuff pisses me off. Most of us in AM spend ALOT of time and money testing, tweaking and specializing in getting good traffic. When a thief comes into the mix, after all the hard work is done, it is more than frustrating. And I know this shit can happen on the pub side too...its just the dark/shitty side of AM.

I have to say...what do you expect? You seem to be promoting rebills. If the customer who signs up cancels, the adverstiser doesn't get paid so why should you? Send better traffic that STICKS and won't cancel then maybe your offers won't be "scrubbed" as much.

By now you should know that a percentage of all conversions will come back as "cancels/refunds" and you should be able to anticipate that. Common sense for most business people.

As for the different conversion rates...yeah some days you get 20 clicks and 5 conversions then other days you get 500 clicks and nothing. If only we knew how to predict what to do to get consistent conversion levels! As long as the actual rate is fairly steady over longer periods of time I think it is acceptable.

 

[fabianb]

Typically what happens in case where eg the FTC decides to go after acai, biz opp or anything else banks get nervous and some merchants can be forced overnight to switch billing practices or not bill at all.
In case they can't bill at anymore often the only option is 'plan B' and throughput often depends on bank, region where this bank is located and level of scrubbing to be done on the creditcard level.

 

[affiliatearmy]

newb..

I have to say...what do you expect? You seem to be promoting rebills. If the customer who signs up cancels, the adverstiser doesn't get paid so why should you? Send better traffic that STICKS and won't cancel then maybe your offers won't be "scrubbed" as much.
Right.

By now you should know that a percentage of all conversions will come back as "cancels/refunds" and you should be able to anticipate that. Common sense for most business people.
This isnt Clickbank...no returns on CPA's. Adv factor that in. No worries..% scrub is acceptable. Not 100%.

As for the different conversion rates...yeah some days you get 20 clicks and 5 conversions then other days you get 500 clicks and nothing.
Not me, and not anyone I know.
If only we knew how to predict what to do to get consistent conversion levels! As long as the actual rate is fairly steady over longer periods of time I think it is acceptable.

===========

 

[xentech]

For some reason I thought this thread was going to be about the TV show, haha.

 

[inthesun]

i wonder what Kevin Hoeffer would have to say about this

 

[mediastar100]

I have posted about this multiple multiple times.

Is it the case that advertisers are now forcing a change in the cpa model? ie. we pay for traffic and deliver leads. The advertiser then decides if they are going to pay.

This in my understanding fucks the entire model. Of course there will always be an element of scrubbing but the nws really need to get involved in this.

It is now at the point where it is beyond noticeable and is actually killing the model.

NWs - the majority of us understand that it is not you that is behind this however your role in the relationship is to broker and maintain a list of advertisers that your publishers can push with full confidence.

Publishers have to go through a thorough vetting process to join a network - what practices are in place to maintain legit advertisers or in fact to stop the shady ones getting into the space in the first place?

The equivalent of what advertisers are doing now would be if a publisher suddenly decided to start sending a ton of fraud leads which will ultimately back out for no one other than the frauding publisher.

Would that publisher last a minute in the NW? I think not.

So what are you going to do about the scumbag advertisers who cannot make the leads back out on their end?

Afterall we have to , as someone on here put it "force a campaign to convert", why can they not do the same instead of being so fucking trigger happy?


Interested to hear your thoughts.

 

[DoldGigga]

As for the different conversion rates...yeah some days you get 20 clicks and 5 conversions then other days you get 500 clicks and nothing. If only we knew how to predict what to do to get consistent conversion levels! As long as the actual rate is fairly steady over longer periods of time I think it is acceptable.

Not me, and not anyone I know.

Here is one offer this week, (CPA)..and yes, a biz opp:
635 1 0.16% $0.06

$35.00​

635 is clicks to offer, 1 is the conversion.

lulz

This isnt Clickbank...no returns on CPA's. Adv factor that in. No worries..% scrub is acceptable. Not 100%.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...someone is still in the dark about how CPA offers actually pay out. I can't draw you a pretty picture, but I can attempt to dumb it down for you:

a) CPA offer gets a sale under your ID, you are credited with $XX for sale.

b) Once billing period is complete, advertiser tallies sales, chargebacks, cancellations and provides those figures to CPA network.

c) You get paid based on confirmed sales.

d) True story. Some advertisers scrub offers to prevent scammers/fraudsters from abusing the offers.


I dunno, I'm looking at this and wondering if you'll get it but after seeing how you struggled to properly quote my response I dunno.

 

[xmcp123]

lulz



Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...someone is still in the dark about how CPA offers actually pay out. I can't draw you a pretty picture, but I can attempt to dumb it down for you:

a) CPA offer gets a sale under your ID, you are credited with $XX for sale.

b) Once billing period is complete, advertiser tallies sales, chargebacks, cancellations and provides those figures to CPA network.

c) You get paid based on confirmed sales.

d) True story. Some advertisers scrub offers to prevent scammers/fraudsters from abusing the offers.


I dunno, I'm looking at this and wondering if you'll get it but after seeing how you struggled to properly quote my response I dunno.

That's entirely fiction. I think everyone here as seen scrubs kick in long before there was time to gauge the traffic quality.
If you can't afford the payout, don't offer it.

 

[cardine]

a) CPA offer gets a sale under your ID, you are credited with $XX for sale.

b) Once billing period is complete, advertiser tallies sales, chargebacks, cancellations and provides those figures to CPA network.

c) You get paid based on confirmed sales.

d) True story. Some advertisers scrub offers to prevent scammers/fraudsters from abusing the offers.


I dunno, I'm looking at this and wondering if you'll get it but after seeing how you struggled to properly quote my response I dunno.

And this all happens within 24 hours?

 

[DoldGigga]

That's entirely fiction. I think everyone here as seen scrubs kick in long before there was time to gauge the traffic quality.
If you can't afford the payout, don't offer it.

They are verifying the submitted data for correctness and most likely to prevent duplicates. You can't take one extreme or the other and expect the CPA model to work. The advertiser has to pay out reasonably on conversions while the publisher has to understand that there are such things as fraud, duplicate data and "free trial" whores who affect the performance of a particular offer.

If you are promoting an offer, getting many conversions then not getting paid...the simple solution is to drop the advertiser.

And this all happens within 24 hours?

I dunno, being on the internet and all it takes so much time for things to interact with each other. Like when I send an email, it takes AT LEAST 24 hours before it gets to its destination, amirite?