And best commercial goes to...

[Dullspace]

We're getting closer, here.

Three (3) people were pressing the gas instead of the brake, not all of them.

Again, this is wrong. The NHSTA studied 58 black boxes and found in 35 (more than half) the brakes were not applied at all. This lead them to strongly believe in driver error: U.S. Study Indicates Driver Error in Many Toyota Crashes - WSJ.com

This discussion won't work if the groundwork of facts is misunderstood.

Are you suggesting that all of the people going back to 2002 that have experienced the acceleration problem in Toyota's were all due to them pressing the gas instead of the brake.

Yes, I am suggesting most, if not all, are due to that. That's what the actually investigators have found so far and I'm inclined to side with someone who is professionally researching this topic.

If so, why is that tendency more prevalent in Toyota drivers?

This is a warrantless claim. You are drawing a comparison of two ratios with only one number. We know how many reported Toyota cases there are. But we still need to know how many Toyota drivers there are, how many drivers of other makes there are, and how many cases of sudden acceleration their are with other makes.

I agree that some od the increase in the cases over the last year or so may have been due to that. The problem is, these problems go back long before the media actually publicized what was happening. How do you explain all of the deaths being blamed on sudden acceleration in Toyota models - most of which occurred long before any publicity?

The number was actually 13 deaths reported by January 2010, not 89: Toyota Deaths - Toyota faces new reports of sudden-acceleration deaths - Los Angeles Times

However the NHSTA's number rose to 37 deaths since the year 2000. As the story grew more popular, more people reported incidents predating the popularity.: Toyota deaths reported to safety database rise to 37 - USATODAY.com

To give some scale to these numbers, more than 40,000 people per year die in automotive accidents in the US.

It was to save space. I try to only quote relevant parts of a post, and that particular one didn't have any.

I think you didn't like the part where I summarized your posts. I hope you didn't feel angry to read the illogical jumping between your contentions. If you did, that anger was probably rooted in shame or embarrassment. You don't need to respond to those emotions with anger. You can internalize mistakes in a healthier way. It doesn't mean that you personally were attacked.

If it was really to save space, you wouldn't have quoted anything at all. But you wanted to take a jab at me. I'm not mad, I just hope we can use our brains instead of personal attacks here.

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

He even went out of the way to say: "The problem is, these problems go back long before the media actually publicized what was happening" -As if cars of every make had never done such things before 2009. -Even after my chart in post #72 above!

I didn't comment on your chart because it shows the cars with the least complaints are the ones made in Detroit, although your posts thus far have indicated that you believe them to be inferior junk. I figured either I was still drunk or you're retarded. I've looked at it again, and it appears you're just retarded. Now go away, I'm trying to have a debate with someone more capable of reasoning than you.

@Dullspace, feel free to reference the chart your buddy posted if that helps. Yes, I feel brakes on US made cars are safer, and I suppose this proves me correct.

Again, this is wrong. The NHSTA studied 58 black boxes and found in 35 (more than half) the brakes were not applied at all. This lead them to strongly believe in driver error:

So I suppose the other 23 cases in this study were an acceptable failure rate? Unintended acceleration only happens in Toyota's 40% of the time? Comforting.

Yes, I am suggesting most, if not all, are due to that. That's what the actually investigators have found so far and I'm inclined to side with someone who is professionally researching this topic.

I see. So your argument is that people from 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 were all impacted by the publicity that Toyota received in 2009 and 2010? I'm not even sure how to refute that. I've seen no evidence of time travel, but if you'd like to present that I'd be glad to consider it.

This is a warrantless claim. You are drawing a comparison of two ratios with only one number. We know how many reported Toyota cases there are. But we still need to know how many Toyota drivers there are, how many drivers of other makes there are, and how many cases of sudden acceleration their are with other makes.

I didn't post the chart originally, but I've quoted it above for your review - hope that helps.

The number was actually 13 deaths reported by January 2010, not 89: Toyota Deaths - Toyota faces new reports of sudden-acceleration deaths - Los Angeles Times

However the NHSTA's number rose to 37 deaths since the year 2000. As the story grew more popular, more people reported incidents predating the popularity.: Toyota deaths reported to safety database rise to 37 - USATODAY.com

Government: 89 Deaths Tied to Toyota Acceleration - FoxNews.com
Government ups number of alleged Toyota deaths to 89 - Drive On: A conversation about the cars and trucks we drive - USATODAY.com
Government says 89 deaths tied to Toyota acceleration | Business | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle
Toyota's accelerator problem suspected in at least 89 deaths in past decade: government
Toyota "Unintended Acceleration" Has Killed 89 - CBS News
Toyota Sudden Acceleration May Be Tied to 89 Deaths, U.S. Says - Bloomberg
Global Times - Toyota complaints linked to 89 deaths
NHTSA Investigates 89 Deaths Linked to Toyota Acceleration Problems

I've tried to provide a variety of sources to eliminate any concerns you might have about media bias. Feel free to ask if you have any more questions.

 

[FTC-Hater]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-NkI-W9PMQ]YouTube - Die Atzen Frauenarzt & Manny Marc - Disco Pogo[/ame]

 

[Dullspace]

So I suppose the other 23 cases in this study were an acceptable failure rate? Unintended acceleration only happens in Toyota's 40% of the time? Comforting.

Again, you're failing at arithmetic and distorting the basic fact pattern. They found in the majority of the invested cases of unintended acceleration, the brakes were never depressed. This lead them to conclude driver fault. 23 cars is not 40% of Toyotas on the road. It is 40% of Toyotas investigated for sudden acceleration.

Of those remaining 23 cars, the majority were found to have the brakes pressed only immediately prior to impact. This again implies driver fault, not manufacturer fault. It is available in the WSJ link.

I see. So your argument is that people from 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 were all impacted by the publicity that Toyota received in 2009 and 2010? I'm not even sure how to refute that. I've seen no evidence of time travel, but if you'd like to present that I'd be glad to consider it.

People reported incidents from the past in 2010. It's not a difficult concept to grasp and does not require time travel:

Toyota's "Sudden Acceleration Deaths" Suddenly Accelerates

Toyota Complaints Surged After First Recall - WSJ.com


Again, you aren't addressing the basic fact that accident investigations have not found a pattern of unintended acceleration in Toyotas. Your chart is a measure of reported complaints, not findings, and your misuse of percentages is dishonest.

You have really struggled in this thread. I hope you learn to form logical conclusions in the future base on warrants and impacts rather than emotion. You won't get very far using big talk that isn't backed up by thought. I know rational thinking has been a big part of why I'm so successful today. I hope you eventually get there too. Good luck.

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

Again, you're failing at arithmetic and distorting the basic fact pattern. They found in the majority of the invested cases of unintended acceleration, the brakes were never depressed. This lead them to conclude driver fault. 23 cars is not 40% of Toyotas on the road. It is 40% of Toyotas investigated for sudden acceleration.

Just say uncle because you're making yourself look silly now.

People reported incidents from the past in 2010. It's not a difficult concept to grasp and does not require time travel:

People have been complaining about this issue for years.
Toyota Denied Sudden Acceleration Problem For More Than 5 Years | InjuryBoard Kansas City
Toyota Sudden Acceleration - Toyota sudden acceleration reports date to 2003 - Los Angeles Times
You keep trying to ignore these facts and pretend that all of these issues form the past 9 years just came out of nowhere when the publicity hit, but you know that isn't true. And if you didn't know, now you know.

I also notice you failed to respond to the other points I made, so I'll record those in the victory column as well. I'm way ahead on points Dully. Your only chance to win now is by knockout. Hope you've been holding something back...

 

[lukep]

UG, I posted that chart to show perspective. The media made Toyota's "problem" look like no other cars on the road ever had such problems... When toyota was Smack Dab in the middle of the chart.

Further, that chart shows you a sense of TIME that is vitally missed in your understanding.

For instance, your latest attempt to troll Dullspace was about the "ongoing issues" that Toyota has... When that Chart clearly shows that all three Detroit manufacturers have many complaints going back to the oldest year on the chart, without ever skipping a year of carnage themselves.

It's really funny how you can see a chart that represents many different data sets and just pick out the one that supports your argument to run with, throwing the rest away... How lazy.

Of course what else would I expect of a serial troll who watches Fox News?

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

UG, I posted that chart to show perspective. The media made Toyota's "problem" look like no other cars on the road ever had such problems... When toyota was Smack Dab in the middle of the chart.

You do understand that the chart represents complaints per 100,000 cars right? You also realize that Toyota is the largest car company in the world right? The reason such a big deal is made about Toyota is because that percentage of 100,000 cars represents such a massively larger quantity of complaints (let me know if you need me to explain the math behind that) than the 4 car companies ahead of it combined.

The reason you don't hear about the Volvo problems is because there are about 17 Volvo's in the US (slight exaggeration). That goes for Jaguar, Suzuki (they make cars?) and VW as well. If those companies sold nearly as many cars as Toyota, the outcry would be just as loud. Furthermore, I never said Toyota was the only car maker with that problem, just that US cars have better braking systems than Japanese cars. You already proved my case for me but for some reason you and Dullspace want to spar with me so I have to rub your nose in it.

While we're at it, would you like to reconsider your characterization of US cars as being low quality, when your own chart shows them to be superior? Or are you the one that's trolling? I already put Dullspace to bed, care to join him?

 

[lukep]

Does it ever get tiring being such a troll?

You know damn well the Toyota and Honda resell values are going to be far better than their detroit-ian counterparts at 5 & 10 years.

If your only point was "brakes here are better," I wouldn't spar with you at all on this matter. In fact I'll concede the point that the statistics show something that kinda correlates to that...

Per 100k cars on the road, at least in the US, ACCELLERATION COMPLAINTS have been marginally lower for US cars than Toyotas.

But look at the chart, man... 5 people difference!

You continually make them sound like deathtraps when such a small, marginal, almost laughable difference could totally be a reporting error.

Bottom line; Toyota was 100% cleared of the charges, it is obvious that the press went too far, and most importantly; their resale values still fly high.

Good brakes =/= High resale values

High resale values == Better, more durable, longer-lasting cars

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

Bottom line; Toyota was 100% cleared of the charges

No, they weren't. They were cleared of a new acceleration problem, which would have been related to the electronic throttle issue and would have resulted in an additional massive recall. That has nothing to do with their history of sticking gas pedals going back almost 10 years. If you're not clear on that - go back through the thread more slowly.

High resale values == Better, more durable, longer-lasting cars

Perception is everything. You just proved why resale values are higher - because people like you have your mind made up about quality despite evidence to the contrary. No offense, but you're the same guy that claimed China makes high quality shit too, so maybe you shouldn't really publicly state your opinion on quality.

The CEO of Toyota came out publicly and apologized for letting quality turn to shit (I'm paraphrasing) in an effort to catch GM as the #1 automaker. He promised "a return to making quality products" (which they once did - Toyota earned their reputation in the 80's and 90's), but we'll have to see if that plays out. In the meantime, if you own a Toyota made in the last 10 years, chances are it doesn't match the quality of the better Ford or GM models from the same time period. According to JD Power, only 5 brands received 5/5 stars in dependability - Lincoln (Ford), Mercury (Ford), Buick (GM), Porsche (Fucking Germans), and Lexus (Toyota). So I guess if you're wet for Toyota and have to spend money with them, you better spring for a Lexus. Although it should be pointed out that the only brand with 5 star ratings across the board in every category is Lincoln - which also happens to be what a pimp like me drives. Enjoy your shitty Asian death trap.

 

[medicalhumor]

If I open a thread debating the quality of US vs. Import cars, can we discuss Super Bowl commercials there?

 

[JakeStratham]

If I open a thread debating the quality of US vs. Import cars, can we discuss Super Bowl commercials there?

lol Yes. But it would inevitably lead to why Obama sucks, how the state is controlling our minds through the water supply, and whether Green Bay truly is the best football team in the world.

 

[medicalhumor]

well yeah, what else is there?

lol Yes. But it would inevitably lead to why Obama sucks, how the state is controlling our minds through the water supply, and whether Green Bay truly is the best football team in the world.

 

[-God-]

I just thought I'd bump this thread, for an ad I forgot about until I just came across it. Very, very, very clever. And of course very good.

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