Well you let the big bad government wolf take control of everything now, how is that any different to the bad guy you speak of?
Anarchy is Dumb
- Thread starter SUP3RNOVA
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Well you let the big bad government wolf take control of everything now, how is that any different to the bad guy you speak of?
I love thinking about what real anarchy could be like. The problem is, it can't and won't happen. It's in our DNA to form groups, and to have leaders. It's built in to most animal and insect groups. After all, baby, you and me, we aren't anything but mammals.
The actual end game for anarchy is government. It's more viable and efficient to form groups with a common goal, and then you need someone to lead the group. So it has been and so it will pretty much always be.
Real anarchy is but a pipe dream, one that can't be reached by humans, we're too intelligent for that. Insects are too intelligent for that. So yeah, good luck with that.
The actual end game for anarchy is government. It's more viable and efficient to form groups with a common goal, and then you need someone to lead the group. So it has been and so it will pretty much always be.
Real anarchy is but a pipe dream, one that can't be reached by humans, we're too intelligent for that. Insects are too intelligent for that. So yeah, good luck with that.
It's amazing that so many otherwise intelligent anarchists don't understand this point. Anarchy is older than government. Anarchy was the precursor to government. From Anarchy springs government.
When you point out the inevitability of this, they call you a "Statist" and make a moral case for Anarchy. It has nothing to do with morals, people just want to be led - it's in their nature. That's why Anarchy never lasts, and the evil monster we know as "The State", always forms to fill that role.
It's an impossibility, and even guerilla the king of anarchists has admitted that anarchy only exists within idealism and dreams. When you apply anarchy to real-world scenarios, they get flustered, and start ranting about ethics. For proof that anarchy works, they give you things like 10 stall campgrounds in the US, or small rural communities with a few dozen people. Then you even get the occasional brilliant remark like if it wasn't for government, we may all be balls of pure energy by now.
Personally, I think anarchists want to live off the grid, but receive all the benefits from being on the grid. They just want their one or two acres of land where everyone will leave them alone, but yet want to retain the benefits that the state and globalization have brought. Otherwise, they'd go live in the wilderness somewhere and build their own community in the mountains, which many people have already done. You can find communities like that scattered around everywhere.
Personally, I think anarchists want to live off the grid, but receive all the benefits from being on the grid. They just want their one or two acres of land where everyone will leave them alone, but yet want to retain the benefits that the state and globalization have brought. Otherwise, they'd go live in the wilderness somewhere and build their own community in the mountains, which many people have already done. You can find communities like that scattered around everywhere.
This is absolute 100% truth, although I wish it wasn't so.
The only question is who steps up to lead? We are still in the god damn jungle folks, even the apes have leadership. It's survival instinct built into us through evolution... therefore, if we are to believe that evolution is efficient, we can only assume that having leaders is beneficial. I doubt we would all be having this conversation through the fucking internet, had it not been for our instinct to form packs and leadership. That leadership will always seek more resources for themselves.. which, of course, means less for everyone else..
We all might as well dick roll ourselves for a few hours straight.
It isn't the truth.
It's completely unsubstantiated bullshit. None of them count point out one anarchistic society.
We haven't even had the conception of property rights, which is possible to create anarchy, for more than 300 years.
Lockean Homesteading theory for less.
People like to hide behind the "man is bad, man wants to be lead, man is evil" because it absolves them of having to take and live with a moral stand. As long as they can justify the state, then they don't have to take responsibility for their own actions.
During slavery, I imagine they would have been the people arguing that blacks are inferior, subhuman, not capable of being civilized. Heaven forbid they admit the humanity of another human being, because then they would have had to stop exploiting other people with violence.
Guys who don't like being called statist, just have to reject violence. Why is that hard?
If you look at the people who criticize anarchy regularly here, it's the same guys who live at the expense of others. To embrace anarchy, would be to admit their mode is wrong. They aren't about to embrace a paradigm where they can't prey upon someone else, without any risk or responsibility.
Again, why is it hard to reject the use of aggression against peaceful people? What rational, decent person would not?
The irony is, there are guys here arguing they need masters, but making that argument as an individual.
"I NEED TO BE CONTROLLED, BUT FIRST LET ME SPEAK MY MIND!"
But hey, being logical and intelligent ain't easy.
It's just that violence has and always will be used to attain resources..and man DOES want to be led. It's evolutionary instinct.
When you limit life to any concept it becomes a limitation. Life is infinitely more vast and real than anything you can put into words. Truth is beyond words. Anarchy while a great concept can be a limitation. I say apply anarchy to your own life. You are already free.
Since I have a few people on this thread, including the faggot OP, on ignore I can't respond to a lot of the shit here, but I don't think I've argued/raged at rage9 before on this subject so I''ve gotta take the time to answer him on these unthoughtful comments:
It's becoming clear to me that statists simply aren't capable of thinking in way that doesn't condemn freedom, and by extension, morality.
Of course you won't agree that you are all immoral, (actually catholics might...
) but it's blatantly obvious to anyone who understands the ramifications of living by the NAP.
Sadly this train of thought always leads me to the conclude that the majority of humanity alive today, and of course most of their offspring too, will never live in a Voluntaryist existence... Which means any voluntaryists would have to go live on a seastead or the moon or something to get away from all of your immorality. Sad, but necessary.
It's just like slavery bro. We outgrew that immorality, right?
Just to be clear, Anarchy could be attempted a bajillion different ways. Sure, many of them will fail, and I'd go so far as to say all of the ones would fail that don't hold the NAP central to their existence... Because that's the State's mistake too. The NAP is a central anchoring point that anyone smart enough can see is completely true; a self evident truth that leads to happier and fair world for everyone.
It is getting really boring logging onto WF and seeing argument after argument from people like the haters on this thread who don't even understand what they are arguing against, which is in a nutshell; morality.
It certainly can and will happen... Just not with anyone on this thread who hasn't decided that Voluntaryism is the way forward for humanity.
It's becoming clear to me that statists simply aren't capable of thinking in way that doesn't condemn freedom, and by extension, morality.
Of course you won't agree that you are all immoral, (actually catholics might...
) but it's blatantly obvious to anyone who understands the ramifications of living by the NAP.YOUR brain may be hardwired like an ant's, but don't speak for me, bro. Freedom and morality go hand in hand and my brain has no trouble seeing them through to their natural state.
Sadly this train of thought always leads me to the conclude that the majority of humanity alive today, and of course most of their offspring too, will never live in a Voluntaryist existence... Which means any voluntaryists would have to go live on a seastead or the moon or something to get away from all of your immorality. Sad, but necessary.
Such silly tripe. I wonder if you think this is an orginal argument...
It's just like slavery bro. We outgrew that immorality, right?
Weak. This was nothing but a hollow insult... I expected better of you Rage9. To call all of anarchy 'too stupid' is like calling the people who live on ALL other planets too purple... You don't have any facts, and that's just too narrow to apply to them all anyway.
Just to be clear, Anarchy could be attempted a bajillion different ways. Sure, many of them will fail, and I'd go so far as to say all of the ones would fail that don't hold the NAP central to their existence... Because that's the State's mistake too. The NAP is a central anchoring point that anyone smart enough can see is completely true; a self evident truth that leads to happier and fair world for everyone.
It is getting really boring logging onto WF and seeing argument after argument from people like the haters on this thread who don't even understand what they are arguing against, which is in a nutshell; morality.
If every man wanted to be lead, there would be no leaders.
That's the nonsense of the statist argument.
You've got guys here arguing as individuals, claiming that men cannot operate as individuals. Claiming that all men need to be lead, but by that rationale, no man can be a leader.
Slow down there Baba Hari Das. You're contradicting yourself too. If truth is beyond words, stop using them.
That's why we gotta get a seastead going, bro.
You damn skippy it is. When you're looking for it you can see it happen almost every time you turn on the news.
Governments suck alright, but you know who really sucks? LukeP and Guerilla. Stop spamming the boards with your bullshit.
Just like anarchy actually working in reality.
Now that's completely bullshit. Just because I believe a well run government can do a better job at providing services like health care, emergency services etc, to an entire population without discrimination doesn't mean I don't want to take responsibility for my own actions. What a load of tripe. You just love thinking that you're somehow a better human being than everyone else because you're an anarchist. Some people join bikie gangs to feel powerful, some people join expensive gentleman's clubs to feel superior. You became an anarchist.
Somebody's mad ^^^
Must have touched a nerve calling a spade a spade.
What is so hard to understand?
As far as discrimination, everyone discriminates. Nature, objective reality, doesn't tolerate equality. It's a nonsensical concept sold to soft-minds in public schools.
Now some animals behave that way out of ignorance, and some do it willfully. Both can decide to act like intelligent, rational humans whenever they want. That's on them, not me.
In fact, you're reflexively proving my point about the circling of wagons when someone points out parasitic behavior. Ostensibly because we're all supposed to believe the myths you indulge.
Must have touched a nerve calling a spade a spade.
Anarchy works on the internet all the time. You're here of your own free will. Jon operates this forum of his free will. No violence is necessary.
What is so hard to understand?
Sure it does. How is that government funded? Do you pay for everything you get out of it? Do you pay more to cover the less fortunate?
As far as discrimination, everyone discriminates. Nature, objective reality, doesn't tolerate equality. It's a nonsensical concept sold to soft-minds in public schools.
I don't think I am a better human being, I think I am a human being. I think that people who live at the expense of others are animals, not humans.
Now some animals behave that way out of ignorance, and some do it willfully. Both can decide to act like intelligent, rational humans whenever they want. That's on them, not me.
Trust me, anarchism doesn't convey any social or financial benefits to me. Attacking me personally doesn't do anything to support or advance your argument.
In fact, you're reflexively proving my point about the circling of wagons when someone points out parasitic behavior. Ostensibly because we're all supposed to believe the myths you indulge.
While I agree with a lot you have to say, I feel you'd gain more clear picture by dropping a few assumptions, believes and concepts.
You say what you because you still haven't challenged a belief of who you are. Still take yourself to be an individual, a person with certain qualities. Why not include your inner world into your contemplation? Why not challenge all the conditioned beliefs of being this and that? Do you really have any qualities? Do you have any weight, shape, colour? Why hold to any opinions, concepts, beliefs, morals? Are you a doer of your actions and thinker of your thoughts? Do you control your mind or does it control you?
Inquiring mind is great, but equating rationality and logic to intelligence....
Your parents didn't name you BLISS to be a mere person. Drop all beliefs and be free!
You're taking it too literal. I meant man as a species.. as a whole.. wants to be lead. Of course, there are always exceptions. When you take a look at history, it seems kinda hard to deny this.
Many of hose exceptions.. are the leaders. Others are isolationists.