Add a Joint Venture Section?

[shounid]

Please end this thread..

Are you guys thinking about the legal implications of this? I mean imagine, if dare god, a JV FAILED? Some dick might decide it was because of the JV section on WF being the reason of him losing Trillions of pennies, and sue.

The BST is a seller and buyer scenario. It has some enforcement outside of paypal enforcement. Who would someone go to to enforce a JV? A mod? A admin? Jon? That's a legal nightmare.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, I maybe, but some JVs maybe considered an investment, which would need a securities licensee to even discuss. Imagine if someone pulls a Bernie Madoff here and now Jon has the SEC breathing down WF's neck, since WF is actually condoning JVs here. Also, since several people are international here, doing business in countries that may or may not be friendly, now you got Homeland Security involved, and maybe Interpol, if someone pulls a scam. Also, Immigration would be involved if an "investor" is foreign and someone tried to run an EB5 investor visa scenario...

I can go on and on about the legal implications about this, but someone more knowledgeable should take over. I know all this from past business dealings and clients, so yeah, when you do promote cross border commerce, like real commerce, not buying a digital product like links or seo, but actual investments, creating corporations, etc, things become a headache for whoever owns the land that is running that show.

It's not worth the headache.

Probably why you haven't seen anyone at the top comment on this... But again, that's just me rambling on... don't take anything I say seriously...


Carry on...

You are absolutely wrong...

1.If we think like as you say ,all the webmasters forum(excluding wickedfire) have a JV Section and only a few have moderating etc..but not even 1 forum is under legal problem due to any scam taking part there ...or not any head ache for having the section...You are talking some thing very new..

For example , bhw - a single JV Thread has scammed around 15k USD ,but Diamond Damien(owner of the forum) does not even bother about it or he is not under ANY Legal problems...or probably he does not even know such thing is happening there..Can you say 1 example for your claim to be afraid ?

So how will the forum be responsible if any users are scamming ?


it's the responsibility of users of what ever they fall in...

What you are saying is like if a buyer on BST is scammed , according to your thought , wickedfire is responsible for that..but actually it's the seller..wickedfire may or may not take action against it , but ofcourse they are not under any legal issue...


p0ck3taces Said it correctly :

A JV section doesn't need to mean an investment section. It can be clearly laid out in the rules asking for investment is not allowed...

An example for this - wafo..

My opinion on this thread now :

I myself is an investor and have invested in various web opportunities and i would definitely like to see a JV Section on wickedfire..to invest more..

 

[CCarter]

You are absolutely wrong...

1.If we think like as you say ,all the webmasters forum(excluding wickedfire) have a JV Section and only a few have moderating etc..but not even 1 forum is under legal problem due to any scam taking part there ...or not any head ache for having the section...You are talking some thing very new..

For example , bhw - a single JV Thread has scammed around 15k USD ,but Diamond Damien(owner of the forum) does not even bother about it or he is not under ANY Legal problems...or probably he does not even know such thing is happening there..Can you say 1 example for your claim to be afraid ?

So how will the forum be responsible if any users are scamming ?


it's the responsibility of users of what ever they fall in...

What you are saying is like if a buyer on BST is scammed , according to your thought , wickedfire is responsible for that..but actually it's the seller..wickedfire may or may not take action against it , but ofcourse they are not under any legal issue...


p0ck3taces Said it correctly :

A JV section doesn't need to mean an investment section. It can be clearly laid out in the rules asking for investment is not allowed...

An example for this - wafo..

My opinion on this thread now :

I myself is an investor and have invested in various web opportunities and i would definitely like to see a JV Section on wickedfire..to invest more..

If I am ABSOLUTELY wrong, how come you did not address any of the actual legal consequences/concerns I mentioned specifically? I was pretty specific in my answers, you just gave examples of people breaking the law, and you clearly don't realize it. It's like saying, "well those guys haven't gone to jail yet after robbing that house so it must be okay."

I went line by line, and gave examples of JV without investment, but you completely ignored that, and went to the JV with investment portion, which again, I was very specific, either way. If you can actually show me step by step of why i am wrong, I will be more will to "take your word for it, as an investor".

All your literally said was "You are wrong, and I invested in web opportunities, and want to see a JV section, therefore you are ABSOLUTELY wrong." Very bold statement.

What where the characterisation of your "web opportunities"? That one of the most vague key phrases you stated, while I was more specific to legal consequences.

You know simply stating I am wrong,,, doesn't actually make me wrong, you know. p0ck3taces gave examples, i countered with legal consequences, and you counter with.... "you are ABSOLUTELY wrong." LMFAO, great debate and argument.

It sounds like you originated from BHW and WaFo... Maybe there is a "scammy" feeling there, maybe that's one of the reason you have deflected? Huh? I mean, there are JV threads there that the owners don't care about on BHW (by your own admission - so i guess you want to open WF to that level of scams) and WaFo, is well WaFo, after all. But yet you are here with your 2 posts... I have to wonder why you suggest to also turn this place into the hell holes those places are, after leaving there? My answers are constructed to protect members, whether they realize it or not, and the greatness that is this forum, what sets it apart from those shit holes you came out of.

We operate at a high level here. If I am wrong, you actually have to prove it. Otherwise you are talking out of your ass. When you come back to debate, I mean with legal citation, I'll proceed to show you case by case , scenario by scenario on why I am actually more on course to being correct than you are. You claim to be an "investor"... From BHW and WaFo... you should think about that statement, and find the illogic yourself. I think everyone reading that part sees and feels the BS in that statement, so I am not going to continue...

Carry on...

 

[shounid]

If I am ABSOLUTELY wrong, how come you did not address any of the actual legal consequences/concerns I mentioned specifically? I was pretty specific in my answers, you just gave examples of people breaking the law, and you clearly don't realize it. It's like saying, "well those guys haven't gone to jail yet after robbing that house so it must be okay."

I went line by line, and gave examples of JV without investment, but you completely ignored that, and went to the JV with investment portion, which again, I was very specific, either way. If you can actually show me step by step of why i am wrong, I will be more will to "take your word for it, as an investor".

All your literally said was "You are wrong, and I invested in web opportunities, and want to see a JV section, therefore you are ABSOLUTELY wrong." Very bold statement.

What where the characterisation of your "web opportunities"? That one of the most vague key phrases you stated, while I was more specific to legal consequences.

You know simply stating I am wrong,,, doesn't actually make me wrong, you know. p0ck3taces gave examples, i countered with legal consequences, and you counter with.... "you are ABSOLUTELY wrong." LMFAO, great debate and argument.

It sounds like you originated from BHW and WaFo... Maybe there is a "scammy" feeling there, maybe that's one of the reason you have deflected? Huh? I mean, there are JV threads there that the owners don't care about on BHW (by your own admission - so i guess you want to open WF to that level of scams) and WaFo, is well WaFo, after all. But yet you are here with your 2 posts... I have to wonder why you suggest to also turn this place into the hell holes those places are, after leaving there? My answers are constructed to protect members, whether they realize it or not, and the greatness that is this forum, what sets it apart from those shit holes you came out of.

We operate at a high level here. If I am wrong, you actually have to prove it. Otherwise you are talking out of your ass. When you come back to debate, I mean with legal citation, I'll proceed to show you case by case , scenario by scenario on why I am actually more on course to being correct than you are. You claim to be an "investor"... From BHW and WaFo... you should think about that statement, and find the illogic yourself. I think everyone reading that part sees and feels the BS in that statement, so I am not going to continue...

Carry on...

All your literally said was "You are wrong, and I invested in web opportunities, and want to see a JV section, therefore you are ABSOLUTELY wrong." Very bold statement.

That's not all i said , but i told that also..I explained it's not illegal or head ache for the forum owner to have a JV Section..and i quoted examples for that..like all forums like bhw , wafo have jv sections and scams are also done by few artists , but more legit business are also taking part , but for the scam part , the owner of the forum is not under any legal condition or any "head ache"...

You know simply stating I am wrong,

I also gave a brief explanation...after stating that you are wrong , and still i can say you are completely wrong in your logic..There has never been a case on forum owner for any scam taking in a forum ..LOL...If that's the case , forum owners have to quit their forums and look for other business opportunities..cause all major forums have at-least 1 scam happening daily and so 1 Legal case on the forum owners daily ?lol..

You claim to be an "investor"... From BHW and WaFo... you should think about that statement, and find the illogic yourself. I think everyone reading that part sees and feels the BS in that statement, so I am not going to continue...

What's wrong with being an investor from bhw or wafo , there are many threads asking for investment there...and i'm into a few which seems like legit opportunities , and i don't find anything "illogical" You will not continue on this because now you don't have anything to answer this... Because there is nothing wrong in being an investor from bhw or wafo..and you have to explain me the BS in that statement...if you can't continue ...fuck off nobody wants your opinion without reasons..

We operate at a high level here

Yes , I agree .I'm not talking any low quality of the forum , don't even know why you took this point..i never mentioned about quality or Level of the forum..

Ok , enough ..i will give you one statement for you to think:

If what you are saying is correct , then all the major forums like wafo , bhw , dp etc would not have a JV Section , or do you need more simpler explanation ?

 

[CCarter]

That's not all i said , but i told that also..I explained it's not illegal or head ache for the forum owner to have a JV Section [...] the owner of the forum is not under any legal condition or any "head ache"...

I never stated it was illegal, I stated it was a headache.

There has never been a case on forum owner for any scam taking in a forum ..LOL...

ORLY? Quick Google, this is a case of a $10 million dollar lawsuit, involving forum owners and "employees" (they may have not been involved), and members of the actual forum:
10 Million Dollar lawsuit against forum owner & members - Admin Zone Forums

TLDR; Someone said the board made a statement that negatively impacted the bottomline of a competitor, (a person died and others gut sick). It stated a long debate. The competitor sued the members, subpoenaed the records, and made statements that some of the forum employees were proactive in the negative campaign.

I have not followed up with what happened to the case, you can if you would like, but here is one example of forums owners getting sued or being subpoenaed. Whether they won or not, is a completely different story. Getting sued is a headache.

Let's go down the yellow brick road, shall we? since you love BHW so much…

Here is a forum topic talking about how Digital Point's Owner is geting sued, on BHW: Digital Point Owner Sued for Cookie Stuffing

that links to this page:

Digital Point's Shawn Hogan Sued for Cookie Stuffing

that links to this page:

Courthouse News Service

WF thread talking about its something called RICO, if I am not correct:
http://www.wickedfire.com/shooting-shit/167061-blackhatworld-trolled-scammed-3.html#post1914688

You're statement of forum owners not getting used when scams are performed on their sites is incorrect.

If what you are saying is correct , then all the major forums like wafo , bhw , dp etc would not have a JV Section , or do you need more simpler explanation ?

Answer: Their idiots, and if they took the time to consult a lawyer on some of the activity going on in those forums, they would realize several problems. Right now they are playing ignorant.

What's wrong with being an investor from bhw or wafo , there are many threads asking for investment there...and i'm into a few which seems like legit opportunities , and i don't find anything "illogical".

You're investing money… on threads in BHW and WaFo. If that is what you constitute being an investor…. Good luck brother. It's pretty clear by your statements you don't actually know any US investment laws.

You will not continue on this because now you don't have anything to answer this... Because there is nothing wrong in being an investor from bhw or wafo..and you have to explain me the BS in that statement...if you can't continue ...fuck off nobody wants your opinion without reasons..

Yeah, let me explain to you what the BS in that statement… you're not an investor. If you go to BHW and WAFO for your investment opportunities… you should probably think about why it is you are on WF now. What investments have you made? How much money have you gotten back? Or are you one of those goes in this thread:

No Work For You.. Invest in already running business + Bonus

And being laughed at in this thread:

http://www.wickedfire.com/shooting-shit/167061-blackhatworld-trolled-scammed.html

And that make you "An Investor". Is that your credentials? You invested in BHW and WAFO, now you're an investor and can blatantly disregards US law? But then again… I'm simple wrong, cause your a BHW investor. Can you please show me? Let's go step by step and ask you to rebut my original statements, where you stated I was ABSOLUTELY wrong:

You're not thinking about the legal implications of this. A JV, Joint Venture, is a business agreement between two companies or persons, which requires, if they are smart, contracts, entities to be created, etc. By having this section, you open up WF to the possibility of having someone, even if it's in the rules, cause people break the rules all the time, fucking it up. For example, as soon as you mention a specific investment to a foreign person regarding a USA business, entity, etc. You are breaking the law, IF you don't have a securities licensee involved. Did you know that? In fact, same goes with mentioning a specific investment with both parties being in the US. (If a business attorney can step in here and correct me, please go ahead, but this is rules being handed down from the latest immigration and Investor visa laws). There are tons of laws about this.

There is even a law, to the effect, that you cannot approach an individual about a specific investment, UNLESS you are a securities broker OR a controlling owner or executive of a company. If you are, then obviously lawyers are going to be involved if you are talking about moving or making serious money.

Do you agree or disagree? Please explain. Please tell me why I am wrong about SEC being involved, specifically, since again, you're an accredited investor. Or am I ABSOLUTELY wrong, just because?

If you tell someone you have a business opportunity without realizing the securities laws you are breaking, that's on you. But since you are jumping on WF in their JV section, WF can be subpoena-ed 7 years from now, from some stupid shit you said. I'm getting subpoenas for websites I designed in 2007, so yeah, that record "I have a X business opportunity", gets subpoenaed, and any records they want… again, big fucking headache.

Do you agree or disagree? Please explain. Please show me how me and several people getting subpoenaed for records for shit done 7 years ago, is not a headache. Or am I ABSOLUTELY wrong? the subpoenas are imaginary?

I don't know what the implications of creating a Super PAC are, and the rules, but I guarantee you there are, and inviting political trouble is not good idea. Also if you are thinking of charities, still more legal implications, since you are exchanging serious money, AND has a tax benefit, Which that last part is key. So now you got the IRS involved in case something goes wrong.

Do you agree or disagree about the IRS being involved in formation of charities, and records can be subpoenaed? Do you have any knowledge about the legal concerns of Super PAC? Or am I ABSOLUTELY wrong still?

Same scenario with the subpoenas and I would assume there is also legal problems with this place facilitating that conversation. Since there is a record of it on here, WF would be in a position to hand over the records in case something goes wrong. Also, if you are getting with a programmer/coder and are creating an entity with partnership, lawyers will be involved. If you are hiring them for employment, that's not a JV, there is monster.com for that.

Do you agree or disagree about the statement of subpoenas again? what about the satement of lawyers being involved in the creation of a partnership? And the hiring of employees not being a JV? Or am I ABSOLUTELY wrong?

This is me shooting of the top of my head of all the scenario that can go wrong. A lawyer should really step in here and explain better some of these points.

Do you agree or disagree a lawyer should really step in here and explain?

You really need to consider the legal ramifications of having a place where people are CONDONED to come together and form legal entities. You don't want that headache nor to be that place when anyone of the hundreds of government agencies from around the world come knocking on that door.

I had an investor portal… actually someone I knew had an investor portal, and their lawyers where being ver specific not to mention direct investments on the website. The scenario was that you had to first qualify the investor as being an investor with money then get a licensed broker involved to mention the entity, even if no actual money is being moved back and forth. It was an international thing, so there was a lot more government entities. Headaches… when you solve one 12 new ones pop up just that day.

Do you agree or disagree about the legal ramifications and having government agencies knocking on the door? What about specifically the direct investments on a website scenario? Have you had to qualify an investor before? Do you know the procedures, you should since you would have to been qualified to be an accredited investor… by SEC standards? Or do you consider investing in "web opportunities" not real business? Or are you investing in bullshit $1000 startup… from BHW and WAFO, and call your self an investor? Since you claim to be a one.

 

[CCarter]

In BST there is buyer and seller, there is moderating, and also control at the payment level. The legal ramification if someone rips off someone for $100 is pretty tiny versus a JV where a big money entity gets screwed and they have a hard-on for this place. The SEC would be scrutinizing all the records, logs, all sorts of shit. You're really not considering the legal ramifications of what a JV section, where legal entities are being created, can do if ONLY ONE thing goes wrong.

Do you agree or disagree that the SEC would be scrutinizing the records? Or am I ABSOLUTELY wrong?

If you owned this place, would you want to deal with any of the headaches I mentioned? Seems counter-productive to really making money. I don't own this place, nor speak for WF's owners, I'm just pointing out the massive problems I can spot with this idea in 10 minutes. It sounds like a good idea from one perspective, and it's pretty popular, but from a legal point… a nightmare in the making.

Do you agree or disagree that dealing with subpoenas would be a headache, and counter productive? Or am I ABSOLUTELY wrong still?

Please, explain to me how I am wrong. If you completely ignore my statement for a second time, I'll take that as an admission, that you can't rebut my statement, and aren't really an accredited investor, "you're a BHW and WaFo investor".

 

[IMerr]

I would appreciate this idea .

 

[showerfull]

That would be a good idea...tbh