$600 Bitcoin

There are tons of them repeating the crash thing over & over. When it then happens, what is a natural part of capitalism, then they claim to be a guru. The 10 year before they claimed the crash just comming that year are then forgotten.

Its an own and profitable scam. If you look at the guys and the companies they present then you can see sometimes that they are founded from "serious" financial companies or banks. I saw it at last ones.
 


BigWill said:
These guys don't understand.. at all. lol.
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Schiff understands damn well. Stefan Molyneux explained it to him... Schiff just likes selling gold more than being right.

The internet won't forget; In 5 years he'll look as foolish as all the economists he made look foolish during the housing bubble.
 
He missed so many points. He is basing everything on the base that merchants will continue to use cards. If btc is ever does stabilize you will see alot of merchants wanting to take it. They are looking for an alt as well.

He def likes his gold. I am long gold and have been since it was in the 600's.
 
I don't think it's necessarily true that these bitcoin bashers actually believe it will fail, or that gold and dollars are "intrinsically" better than bitcoin for any reason. You gotta remember that these guys are investors as well, and they're very likely to be heavily invested in assets like gold that compete with bitcoin. So regardless of their actual beliefs, they're going to spread as much propaganda as they can bashing the competition in favor of their own investments.

I always ask this when someone tells me they "know" bitcoin will crash: How much have you invested in shorting it? Surely if you have inside info that it will crash, you would have shorted as much as possible, right? Oh, you didn't? Then stop preaching an investment strategy that you don't even use yourself and shut the fuck up.
 
o hai guyz said:
I don't think it's necessarily true that these bitcoin bashers actually believe it will fail, or that gold and dollars are "intrinsically" better than bitcoin for any reason.
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They are "intrinsically" better for the reasons Schiff laid out (and I have as well).

Gold has secondary uses in manufacturing and jewelry (you need Gold in order to have Bitcoins, but you don't need Bitcoins in order to have Gold).

Dollars can be used to pay taxes (must be used).

Bitcoin doesn't have a secondary purpose.

o hai guyz said:
You gotta remember that these guys are investors as well, and they're very likely to be heavily invested in assets like gold that compete with bitcoin. So regardless of their actual beliefs, they're going to spread as much propaganda as they can bashing the competition in favor of their own investments.
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If they are liquid, it doesn't matter.

You are making the same mistake re: self-interest you accuse others of, without even realizing you're doing it.
 
guerilla said:
He made the same arguments I have made.

What is it exactly that he doesn't understand?
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This is the best Schiff vs. Bitcoin piece i've seen, he is dead on.

I was pretty optimistic on BTC for awhile, mainly because of the anti gov traits. But after learning more and more about money/economics I am no longer optimistic.

I really dont think many people would give a shit about Bitcoins if they were still $100. 90% of people in Bitcoin are in it trying to cash in on it hopefully going up (I am).

This is quite similar to all the people buying homes only to hopefully sell them months later in the mid 2000s. Obviously we all know homes are meant to be lived in....Bitcoins are meant to be spent/traded.

Hopefully I am wrong, but fundamentals and history are not on Bitcoins side.
 
lukep said:
The internet won't forget; In 5 years he'll look as foolish as all the economists he made look foolish during the housing bubble.
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How will that be judged? If by dollar value, then notice in the last 3 minutes of the video below he says that the payment network can be useful and each coin might end up being $10,000 a piece, but nobody really knows and it is all experimental, etc.

Some of the negatives he points out about bitcoin are the same he would say about baseball cards or US paper dollars, which is different from saying that nobody will want those things in 5 years.

On average, the more emotionally attached people are to something, the more oversensitive they are to even a hint of criticism. This can be seen with religious cults, Justin Beiber fans, and now with Bitcoin, lol.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mUn-d8R98k]Ultimate Bitcoin Showdown: Schiff vs. Voorhees - YouTube[/ame]
 
BlokBlok said:
This is the best Schiff vs. Bitcoin piece i've seen, he is dead on.

I was pretty optimistic on BTC for awhile, mainly because of the anti gov traits. But after learning more and more about money/economics I am no longer optimistic.

I really dont think many people would give a shit about Bitcoins if they were still $100. 90% of people in Bitcoin are in it trying to cash in on it hopefully going up (I am).

This is quite similar to all the people buying homes only to hopefully sell them months later in the mid 2000s. Obviously we all know homes are meant to be lived in....Bitcoins are meant to be spent/traded.

Hopefully I am wrong, but fundamentals and history are not on Bitcoins side.
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Well, using the housing market is a bad example, because even after the crash the house still had a value so by that logic if btc crahses it will still be around and even over time probably go
 
mofoparrot said:
Well, using the housing market is a bad example, because even after the crash the house still had a value so by that logic if btc crahses it will still be around and even over time probably go
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Like houses bitcoins will always be around, yes. Unlike Bitcoins you can use a house even if its worth 90% less.
 
If Bitcoin goes up for a week, everyone claims the higher price validates the utility and acceptance of Bitcoin and no one buying it is speculating.

Then when the speculators, errr "users" leave the next week and it falls 40% in value, anyone who points this out is a "hater".
 
guerilla said:
They are "intrinsically" better for the reasons Schiff laid out (and I have as well).

Gold has secondary uses in manufacturing and jewelry (you need Gold in order to have Bitcoins, but you don't need Bitcoins in order to have Gold).

Dollars can be used to pay taxes (must be used).

Bitcoin doesn't have a secondary purpose.


If they are liquid, it doesn't matter.

You are making the same mistake re: self-interest you accuse others of, without even realizing you're doing it.
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You're right that gold does have some minor intrinsic uses, however if you're speculating that those uses are the reason its value is so high, that's wrong. Gold is only valuable because it was arbitrarily decided back in the old days that it would be used as a store of value, and now people equate gold with value simply because it's nice and shiny. The manufacturing value of gold, for example in circuit boards and so on, is nowhere near enough to justify its ridiculous price.

If you're going to use the argument that intrinsic value makes one commodity inherently "better" than another commodity, then the loaf of bread in my pantry is more valuable than the $500 in cash in my wallet, right? At least I can eat the bread if needed, whereas some tiny pieces of paper are useless if people stop equating them with value in exactly the same way you believe people will stop equating value with bitcoin.

As far as the point about why you're not shorting bitcoin if you believe it will fail, it's still valid. If he is so sure bitcoin will crash, why has he not shorted it? Assuming bitcoin goes from 1000 to 1, your % return is going to be significantly better than simply holding gold and watching it go from 1200 to 1300, therefore anyone who actually believes bitcoin will crash will be shorting it like crazy - and if they're not, it doesn't make much sense to take investment advice from people who don't even take their own advice.
 
guerilla said:
Yeah minor. LIKE FUCKING COMPUTERS.

HOLY SHIT KILL YOURSELF.


How do you know he hasn't?
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So just to sum up, your points are:

- The sole source of gold's price is its use in boards for computers.

- The idea that people arbitrarily equate value with gold (in much the same way you despise people who equate value with bitcoin) has not contributed to the current price of gold in any way.

- Little green pieces of paper hold intrinsic value, and significantly more intrinsic value than things like food.

- The 6-month confirmation times of fiat cc's and 3-day wait times of fiat wires are superior to the 30-minute confirmation times of bitcoin payments.

- Even though you've been to the future and you "know" bitcoin is useless there and worth 0, you still have not invested anything into shorting it.

I was under the impression that you were actually an investor wanting to have an intelligent discussion, and I was interested in hearing some legitimate arguments against bitcoin. But all you're doing is pulling the classic high school debate-style "I'm gonna choose 1 little sentence from your argument and pick apart the wording rather than actually responding with any intelligent reasoning or evidence to support my own points."
 
Is anybody trading alt currencies on sites like cryptsy or coins-e?

The markets are soooo slow and don't make much sense. There are buy orders for 2x the last trade just sitting there doing nothing. And a trade only happens like every 15-30 seconds.

edit: I guess it's because "all orders execute at the best possible price". They need to make most orders market orders and then have optional limit orders or something. Doesn't make much sense how it is now.
 
r3p1v said:
Is anybody trading alt currencies on sites like cryptsy or coins-e?

The markets are soooo slow and don't make much sense. There are buy orders for 2x the last trade just sitting there doing nothing. And a trade only happens like every 15-30 seconds.
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Yep. Bots take up a lot of the action in many markets.

Also, Androids Tokens and Florin might go up imo. Just my opinion (Check back 2 weeks later to see if this prediction worked or not )
 
I'm trying to sell my quark since it shot up so much, might buy more megacoins
 
o hai guyz said:
So just to sum up, your points are:

- The sole source of gold's price is its use in boards for computers.

- The idea that people arbitrarily equate value with gold (in much the same way you despise people who equate value with bitcoin) has not contributed to the current price of gold in any way.

- Little green pieces of paper hold intrinsic value, and significantly more intrinsic value than things like food.

- The 6-month confirmation times of fiat cc's and 3-day wait times of fiat wires are superior to the 30-minute confirmation times of bitcoin payments.

- Even though you've been to the future and you "know" bitcoin is useless there and worth 0, you still have not invested anything into shorting it.
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These are all strawmen. Why would you post them?

o hai guyz said:
I was under the impression that you were actually an investor wanting to have an intelligent discussion, and I was interested in hearing some legitimate arguments against bitcoin.
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I've made dozens of substantive posts you haven't addressed, and then you post a bunch of nonsensical strawmen and try to call me out for being intellectually lazy?

o hai guyz said:
But all you're doing is pulling the classic high school debate-style "I'm gonna choose 1 little sentence from your argument and pick apart the wording rather than actually responding with any intelligent reasoning or evidence to support my own points."
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When you post something ridiculous like gold being minor (without which there would be no Bitcoins, and we wouldn't be able to read your posts) then someone should say something.

Now what you should do, is say "Yes Guerilla, I was wrong. Also, you didn't say any of those things I posted. I am trying to have an intelligent conversation and I have made some mistakes. Let's start over."
 
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