Chopper Gunner Indiscretion: Innocent People Hammered With 30mm Rounds

The only thing which I have to say about the entire topic is that I have LOST ALL RESPECT for their mind-fuck biased commentary text in the video -- that is no better or worse than Fox News propaganda.

If they really are trying to save the "true journalism" then why did they not release this video without the bullshit commentary to slant the opinion of people watching this video?

Anyway, that is all I have to say. You guys can get back to throwing irrational insults at each other.
 


Lord B said:
If they really are trying to save the "true journalism" then why did they not release this video without the bullshit commentary to slant the opinion of people watching this video?
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That was a short mashup. They did decrypt and release the full 39 minutes of raw footage at the same time.
 
guerilla said:
That was a short mashup. They did decrypt and release the full 39 minutes of raw footage at the same time.
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In the same way that Faux News tries to be "Fair and Balanced" with stuff when no one is watching it? The fact they fucked up the most popular version (which they promoted everywhere -- haven't seen the long version, who has 39 minutes to waste when you can get the low-down in 17), I stand by my view. And from what I have seen everywhere, it is "short mashup" video being linked to and being promoted.

PS: What about this part of the clip? I found that link at some random blog I found in Google News... Imageshack - 1270493174790.gif
 
LotsOfZeros said:
It's common knowledge that just about every EU country is left leaning and to include their media outlets goes without saying.
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Left-leaning is one thing, to say that the media is controlled by the state (i.e. that there is no freedom of the press) is another. The latter is just not the case.

Surely an average European's mindset is more "social" than that of an average American, and in most European countries the social systems are more expansive than what is in place in the US (e.g. healthcare, unemployment). That's a different argument than this one, but in general, the term "social" is not as demonized as it is by the right-leaning media in the US. It's an accepted fact that there need to be social systems in place in any economy.

LotsOfZeros said:
I get sick of the EU vilification of what they refer as American Imperialism. It's all too convenient for them to look down their noses at us as they spout how much more moral they are than us until their own safety and sovereignty is threatened and only then do they come running to the keepers of the world's military might begging for protection.
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On the topic of Europeans perceiving the US government (not necessarily its people!) as imerialistic war-wagers: How else would you categorize breaking into any country that attempts to start selling their substantial natural resources (oil) in a different currency than the dollar, thus, in the long term, would contribute to pulling the rug from under the US economy's feet? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Hussein tried to do just that. Yes he was a murderer and dictator of the worst kind, but that has never been an incentive for the US to start a war.

So: seeing that the inflation rate of the dollar through the roof, and has been so for years, of course it's the government's duty to counteract that. In this case, the government chose to direct its actions to the outside instead of trying to solve it on the inside, which, in this case, repeatedly included acting imperialistically.
 
I think it's very comical how people with no experience, have never been over there, and have never had any first hand accounts seem to know what they are talking about in regards to what is going on by watching the media, reading newspapers, and watching videos on the internet.

I say "fuck em' if they can't take a joke"
 
Lord B said:
PS: What about this part of the clip? I found that link at some random blog I found in Google News... Imageshack - 1270493174790.gif
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Proves my point. Thanks to Wikileaks, anyone can add their own bullshit text to the videos.

There was no AK. That is a camera tripod. They covered that on MSNBC yesterday.

Everyone is going to see in this what they want to see. Humans (all of us, including me) have an incredible ability to rationalize any behavior we engage in that we would otherwise criticize in others.
 
guerilla said:
Proves my point. Thanks to Wikileaks, anyone can add their own bullshit text to the videos.

There was no AK. That is a camera tripod. They covered that on MSNBC yesterday.

Everyone is going to see in this what they want to see. Humans (all of us, including me) have an incredible ability to rationalize any behavior we engage in that we would otherwise criticize in others.
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BTW this might be of some interest to you - The fog of war: The fog of war | The Economist
 
Shit happens in a warzone. As a soldier you can either hesitate and get killed or allow your buddies to get killed. Make the best examination you can of the situation and make a move...that's all you can do. Sometimes it turns out good, other times bad.

P.S. Why the fuck would civilians go hang out in the middle of a warzone anyways??? Not saying they got what is comming to them or anything but fuck where did the common sence go?
 
I apologize in advance for this tangent.

To anyone open to sharing...

I'm curious about your position on war and foreign occupation. In your opinion, what constitutes an acceptable reason to make war with others?

If to defend the country from an act of aggression, is a preemptive strike justified? If so, what indicators would you agree warrant such a strike?

If to retaliate for an act of aggression (e.g. 9/11), is striking a country justified simply because they harbor the aggressors?

If to coerce political action in another country, is there - in your opinion - a clear method for determining what is justifiable and what is not? For example, currency manipulation versus human rights versus democratic elections, etc.?

I'm using the term "war" loosely. To my knowledge, the U.S. is not currently engaged in a Congress-declared war.
 
Has anyone in this thread ever actually been involved in combat besides me? Just curious.
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Yes.

I don't know the full context of the story here. I think it's soldiers on the ground being fired on, chopper comes in for support.

You can't blame the soldiers/aircrew. If I'm a gunner and I see a dude with an RPG, he's getting lit up. I'm not about to go blackhawk down in Baghdad.

If I see a bunch of dudes with AK's and my guys are on the ground, they're getting lit up.

The van, tough to say. They could have had intel that they were insurgents, that they were backup, something.

Without seeing the big picture it's hard to say.

Is war fucked up? Hell yes.

Do I agree with this one? No.

Did I serve in that shit hole? Yes.

In 2004, when you where on a convey, they'd turn and fire at the tops of bridges as they passed under... Threat or no threat.

It was the only way to stop people from dropping IED's or shooting you as you passed under.

That whole situation sucks.

Assuming every car/rock/person is about to explode and kill you sucks.

It's messed up that the government tried to lie about the facts, but it definitely doesn't surprise me.

When I was there we still thought they had WMD's and were warned that a chemical attack was "imminent" at Camp Sather on Christmas day... Of course it didn't happen.

That's a fucked up war. But I'm not blaming the guys doing the shooting in this video. It's war. It's kill or be killed.

And no disrespect to the journalists, but yeah, wrong place wrong time guys. I am upset about what happened. But they knew the risk, and they probably knew that they where in very real danger being in that specific location.

I don't like anyone being killed. But a good way to avoid death is not walking around with tube shaped objects in seedy parts of Iraq.

-Scott
 
:throwup:
ly2 from DP said:
I don't support Iraq war because I don't give a shit about Iraq, it's a waste of money and resources like every other war we are in.

That being said, you didn't say supporting the Iraq war makes you a racist but that's exactly what you were implying. If you say that's not what you were implying you're full of dog shit.
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:jester:

That is quite an intelligent outlook you have there . . .

Quite remarkable . . . and for someone so young
 
one day I was walkin by, with a walkman on, when I caught a guy give me an awkward eye
 
scottspfd82 said:
Yes.

I don't know the full context of the story here. I think it's soldiers on the ground being fired on, chopper comes in for support.

You can't blame the soldiers/aircrew. If I'm a gunner and I see a dude with an RPG, he's getting lit up. I'm not about to go blackhawk down in Baghdad.

If I see a bunch of dudes with AK's and my guys are on the ground, they're getting lit up.

The van, tough to say. They could have had intel that they were insurgents, that they were backup, something.

Without seeing the big picture it's hard to say.

Is war fucked up? Hell yes.

Do I agree with this one? No.

Did I serve in that shit hole? Yes.

In 2004, when you where on a convey, they'd turn and fire at the tops of bridges as they passed under... Threat or no threat.

It was the only way to stop people from dropping IED's or shooting you as you passed under.

That whole situation sucks.

Assuming every car/rock/person is about to explode and kill you sucks.

It's messed up that the government tried to lie about the facts, but it definitely doesn't surprise me.

When I was there we still thought they had WMD's and were warned that a chemical attack was "imminent" at Camp Sather on Christmas day... Of course it didn't happen.

That's a fucked up war. But I'm not blaming the guys doing the shooting in this video. It's war. It's kill or be killed.

And no disrespect to the journalists, but yeah, wrong place wrong time guys. I am upset about what happened. But they knew the risk, and they probably knew that they where in very real danger being in that specific location.

I don't like anyone being killed. But a good way to avoid death is not walking around with tube shaped objects in seedy parts of Iraq.

-Scott
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Were you in 82nd? I was in 2-504
 
ricdes said:
must be awesome to pay insanely high tax rates to finance a war nobody needs.
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Actually we did need it, to put a stranglehold on usable and untapped resources. The US is 5% of the world's population but uses 25% of the world's resources. 66% of the world's oil reserves are in the middle east. Iraq has tons of those reserves alone, a lot of it undeveloped until the US established military presence there so it made sense logistically(not saying morally) to have control in that area.

50-us-bases-in-the-middle-east-a.jpg

US bases and military presence in the middle east

All the gullible idiots thinking we went to war for "freedom" or to "liberate Iraqis" or "terrorism" ate up everything that Karl Rove and that cabinet masterfully crafted. Those reasons may have seemed somewhat plausible in order to invade another country, but it was a front to temporarily fool the majority of Americans so we could proceed with the plan. It wouldn't be acceptable to propose something like "We consume way more than the rest of the world and may run out of resources soon possibly creating a massive crisis, but Iraq is rich in resource taps and it'd be a smart move to move in and control it, plus Saddam is a horrible person and we can make it better for the Iraq people."

Saddam was a tyrant and the Iraqi people may be happier now with the new regime and government, but that is secondary to why we invaded and why we are there.

The obvious smart thing would be to become less dependent on foreign and middle eastern oil, use less resources, control our population and begin a serious shift to alternate energy but I'm a realist. I do not see our nation making the sacrifice for that and I think whoever was the architect behind the Iraq plan predicted that we wouldn't either.
 
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Were you in 82nd? I was in 2-504
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3 CES/ AF Combat Engineer.

I was Air Force. Still got to do a lot of fun stuff like escort prisoners, pull security, search cars for bombs (loved that), dodge mortars and search the TCN workers (insurgents) before they came on base to work (gather intel for mortar attacks).

I wasn't infantry. I never had to fire my weapon and only had to threaten force a few times. We did take a lot of incoming fire from both small arms and mortars though. Plenty of IED/bomb scares thrown into the mix as well.

I was there. I've seen things I wish I hadn't. But there are guys over there who had/have it a lot worse than I did.

One of my best friends is Airborne, I have a ton of respect for you guys.

-Scott
 
All looks like fairly standard operating procedure not sure why everyones so upset. Motherfuckers shouldn't walk around holding things that look like ak47s and RPGs in crouched positions looking at helicoptors.
 
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