The Economy May Never Recover!

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LotsOfZeros said:
Didn't these bastards already get my money when they got their bailout?
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Double penetration friend.

You will pay for the bailout later with taxes. But in order to bailout (expand the money supply), you have to either take higher interest rates now, or hyper inflation.

You're basically getting fucked twice to bailout the banks and receive NOTHING in return.

Nice hunh?
 


medicalhumor said:
We've just witnessed what corporations do with their cash - they stuff their pockets with it. The oil companies just got a bunch of huge tax cuts under the bush administration and what did they do? did they use it to reinvest, did they hire more people, did they provide more benefits for their employees? Just the top level executive employees. All the while, the rest of us choked on high heating costs.
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Sure, but politicians facilitate this. They not only leave the front door unlocked, they set out cookies for the corporate thieves with a note giving the combination to the safe in the back.

The government runs all of the banks through the FED. They produce all of the money, and they set the interest rates. They monitor the market, they are *supposed* to prosecute fraud.

They are the enablers. If it makes more sense to arrest drug dealers than individual junkies, then it is pointless to blame companies for what government helps them do without legal or moral oversight.

The bailout is in the trillions of dollars. These stimulus packages are payoffs. The government knows the economy is fucked, so while the till is open, they are going to grab some fistfuls of cash as well, all the while screaming "if we don't do this, there will be a calamity!"

They did that on 9-11, they did that with Saddam Hussein, and they will did it with the first bailout bill that was 20-1 against from constituents calling in. And they continue to scream "there will be danger if you don't let us rape and loot you!"

People are dumb sheep. Tell them they are in danger, and they will let you do anything to them.
 
Funny just two years ago we were living the high life, now all of the sudden US is sick to death. Man I love predictable human emotions and how the media controls moods on such a large scale.
What worries me about Obama is he doesn't know shit about economy. Were stuck with trusting Barney Frank, Chucky Schumer, and the rest that created this mortgage problem in the first place; who are now in charge of fixing it. Fire them all, like they do in the real world.
 
turbolapp said:
sky-falling.jpg
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:thumbsup:

+rep
 
I don't believe Americans are stupid. I believe most have simply lost their willingness to think critically.

On a related note, I found a new article by Jeff Miron. He's always full of interesting ideas on the economy. And he's offering some great ones for getting out of our current mess.

For those of you who haven't yet written off this thread, here's a good read (short, too)...

Commentary: Libertarian ideas to stimulate economy - CNN.com
 
Trademark said:
I don't believe Americans are stupid.
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Yes, Americans are stupid, naive, way too trusting of the government. But we aren't the only ones going through this right now.

Look at what happened to Iceland, we are soon on our way there.

Look at the riots in Greece.

The UK is right behind us.

We are not the first in this current chain, and we will not be the last.
 
Ok, first off, I must say I agree with those who know there are puppet masters behind the scenes (and none of them are elected).

But, I don't think this whole mess will be that big. I think it is just a tweaking of the system.

I read a very interesting report, which if you read between the lines, will tell you more or less what the owners of the world want and where this whole mess will end (atleast in the next 16 years):

http://www.dni.gov/nic/PDF_2025/2025_Global_Trends_Final_Report.pdf

(warning, its over 100 pages of material published by the CIA).
 
fcreature said:
Easiest question in the world.

Economic Stimulus? Repeal the income tax. Bam, 50% more money for everyone to spend.

More jobs? Remove corporate taxes. Hey, what do you know, companies can afford to hire people again.

Tax cuts? For the rich. For the poor. For everyone.

Aid? No one. Life isn't a fucking charity. Get off your ass and be productive.

Follow all this by massive spending cuts. This would include ending our overseas empire.

If this could happen, we would have the most productive economy ever.
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I vote you for president.

And WTF are these?
$20 billion for food stamps
$5 billion for for the construction and repair of public housing
$335 million for STD prevention
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Those 3 things are the most useless wastes of money ever. Food stamps are for lazy shits who don't want to work, and there ARE jobs, because if you're really that lazy and have no skills at all, you can always work at a fast food restaurant and at least earn enough to buy food and pay your bills. Cutting out all that shit would be an extra 25.3 billion that could be invested into something that would actually help.
 
There is a simple solution to this problem:

1. Invade a foreign country
2. Steal their natural resources
3. Profit
 
Some of you guys sound like smug 22-year-olds banking hard from shilling fat pills, and your only worry in the world is your QS and what to wear at the Playboy mansion party.

Calling food stamps a program for lazy dolts that should get on with flipping burgers is a "Let them eat cake" attitude that got aristocratic heads lopped off during the French Revolution. One day reality may bite you in the ass, and you'll feel grateful there are safety net programs such as food stamps.

I have never been poor enough to need food stamps, but lived a little and seen a lot. It could happen to you.
 
BlueYonder said:
Some of you guys sound like smug 22-year-olds banking hard from shilling fat pills, and your only worry in the world is your QS and what to wear at the Playboy mansion party.

Calling food stamps a program for lazy dolts that should get on with flipping burgers is a "Let them eat cake" attitude that got aristocratic heads lopped off during the French Revolution. One day reality may bite you in the ass, and you'll feel grateful there are safety net programs such as food stamps.

I have never been poor enough to need food stamps, but lived a little and seen a lot. It could happen to you.
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It is true that we do need some entitlement programs. We need to take care of the old and the young but to call a bill a economic stimulis package and then to throw in huge amounts of liberal social programs and entitlements is an outrage.

It goes to show that the politicians are not serious about trying to solve our current economic problems. You have to take a test and be licenced to be an accontant but they allow anyone to be a politician.
 
BlueYonder said:
Some of you guys sound like smug 22-year-olds banking hard from shilling fat pills, and your only worry in the world is your QS and what to wear at the Playboy mansion party.

Calling food stamps a program for lazy dolts that should get on with flipping burgers is a "Let them eat cake" attitude that got aristocratic heads lopped off during the French Revolution. One day reality may bite you in the ass, and you'll feel grateful there are safety net programs such as food stamps.

I have never been poor enough to need food stamps, but lived a little and seen a lot. It could happen to you.
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Well you don't know what some of us have lived through either, so don't prejudge. I still live with my parents (I'm 19) and I can say for a fact that they wouldn't have a home anymore if I weren't paying half their bills for them. Yet my entire family is still against this welfare society that the United States government is breeding. My parents have tried to get help, they can't. They have 4 kids going to college right now and none of us were even eligible for any government money for tuition. Then I have friends who's parents are upper middle class and they somehow got enough government money to pay off half their debt.

The welfare system is completely fucked up in this country. It does get wasted, and it doesn't go to people who don't need it or deserve it. It goes to drug addicts who sell their food stamps for more drugs. It goes to people who actually make plenty of money and just game the system. It promotes inefficiency and lazyness.

Maybe some of us have seen a lot too.
 
california is 40% responsible for this. california needs to just fall away from the states and drift into the pacific.
 
BlueYonder said:
I think you have forgotten about something: how about social security and medicare? I pity the poor politician who suggests to the public they take in granny in her old age and pay her medical bills.

Not that you personally wouldn't enthusiastically care for your mother in her late golden years 24/7. There's your playground. Just saying.
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Medicare should be provided up to an extent. Care for disabled people and help paying for ridiculously expensive six figure operations that decide whether a person lives or dies should definitely be provided. Emergency room care for non-emergencies, for people who are too lazy to get jobs and/or would rather spend their money on new shoes and gadgets rather than saving for health care, should not be provided.

Social security should be abolished. Everyone who has put money in so far should get it back (over time obviously), and from the time the last person is paid back, it should cease to exist. SS is an extremely socialistic system so that dumbasses can waste all their money with no regard for future saving, and then essentially get "bailed out" when they get older. The obvious answer to this is "well if people stop paying it, we're already so deep in a rut that we won't be able to pay it back." Then so be it, don't pay people back. I'd rather see my social security plan go to shit if it means getting rid of the system and helping the US in the long run.

I definitely plan to take care of my parents when they're older. But I plan to use money I've earned, rather than money given to us from a ridiculous socialist system. That's assuming they even need to be taken care of. Seeing as they know how to budget and save money, they probably won't even need any of mine.
 
probably already posted but too lazy to scroll through the endless Rand-bot babble that is so common in political threads here. This is why saying "stimulate the economy by cutting corporate taxes" is just moronic.

ROI for each dollar allocated to tax cuts or spending increases. According to a top Republican economist and advisor to John McCain:
http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/Economic_Stimulus_House_Plan_012109.pdf

Table 2: Fiscal Stimulus Bang for the Buck
Source: Moody's Economy.com

Bang for the Buck

Tax Cuts
Non-refundable Lump-Sum Tax Rebate 1.01
Refundable Lump-Sum Tax Rebate 1.22

Temporary Tax Cuts
Payroll Tax Holiday 1.28
Across the Board Tax Cut 1.03
Accelerated Depreciation 0.25

Permanent Tax Cuts
Extend Alternative Minimum Tax Patch 0.49
Make Bush Income Tax Cuts Permanent 0.31
Make Dividend and Capital Gains Tax Cuts Permanent 0.38
Cut in Corporate Tax Rate 0.30

Spending Increases
Extending Unemployment Insurance Benefits 1.63
Temporary Increase in Food Stamps 1.73
General Aid to State Governments 1.38
Increased Infrastructure Spending 1.59

Note: The bang for the buck is estimated by the one year $ change in GDP for a given $ reduction in federal tax revenue or increase in spending
 
a!!!!1 said:
Medicare should be provided up to an extent.
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Nothing is free. Nurses don't work for free. Power is not generated for free. Hospitals are not built for free.

There is no such thing as "free care". 65 as a retirement age made sense 40 years ago. Today the retirement age should be 75. People are living longer but producing less, and continue to want more.

It's not sustainable. It is coming to an end.
 
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