Anyone else hate not being a programmer?
- Thread starter mpbiz
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My boss just bought me an oculus rift which has been a lot of fun to fart around with on company time. 
Nothing wrong with getting a low level position at a company and get paid to learn before branching out to start your own studio. And I got a xmas bonus that was much appreciated.
I got my job on elance, but it turned into something in person, local, full time, with an office and a cool group of artists to do the stuff I hate.
Just have to be out there to make the connections.
But keep at it and you'll figure it out.
Nothing wrong with getting a low level position at a company and get paid to learn before branching out to start your own studio. And I got a xmas bonus that was much appreciated. I got my job on elance, but it turned into something in person, local, full time, with an office and a cool group of artists to do the stuff I hate.
Just have to be out there to make the connections.
But keep at it and you'll figure it out.
Bump:
Just wanted to share, as it fits the interest of many users here.
Anyways-include a large resource of sites/documents that might be helpful in your coding journeys:
Become a Programmer, Motherfucker
...I'll buy a shirt soon
Just wanted to share, as it fits the interest of many users here.
Anyways-include a large resource of sites/documents that might be helpful in your coding journeys:
Become a Programmer, Motherfucker
...I'll buy a shirt soon
no one's born a fucking programmer, if you "hate not being a programmer" you can sit down, work, and become one
I've been doing a bit of coding and learning in Python with the goal of both creating tools for myself and eventually turning those tools into web apps for others. Where I'm at is that I have decent grasp of Python and have made a couple of scripts that actually save me time, mostly scraping related and SEO. What I'm struggling a bit with is the MVC part and webdesign.
It would be very awesome if you could help me with these:
1) Database design
What is a good tutorial on database design. Not the SQL part or ORM syntax and such, but how to design a database hierachy properly with users and their relations with data and so on. An online course of some sort would be great, like you'd learn in a comp-sci class.
2) Which stack for web app?
There seems to be a lot of options here, Flask, Django, Node.js, Bootstrap etc. I'm having a hard time deciding on which to pursue and how they go together. There are also significantly less books and tutorials on this part?
3) HTML/CSS and Jquery
What is the value of actually spending time on learning webdesign? I'm not a natural visual designer and struggle with css. My attempts look ugly basically. Is it relatively easy to get someone to polish up a site with the architecture made in 2) or are front-end designers not used to working with those?
4) Scripts, membership site or executable
A bit further down the road, if you make an app in Python for example, how difficult is it to sell as a script? Is it even possible mass market, since setting it up isn't as easy as PHP? What if your app needs confidential usr data like logins? If you want to make it a windows exe, would it be better just to learn Java? I realize these questions are noobish.
Much appreciate feedback.
It would be very awesome if you could help me with these:
1) Database design
What is a good tutorial on database design. Not the SQL part or ORM syntax and such, but how to design a database hierachy properly with users and their relations with data and so on. An online course of some sort would be great, like you'd learn in a comp-sci class.
2) Which stack for web app?
There seems to be a lot of options here, Flask, Django, Node.js, Bootstrap etc. I'm having a hard time deciding on which to pursue and how they go together. There are also significantly less books and tutorials on this part?
3) HTML/CSS and Jquery
What is the value of actually spending time on learning webdesign? I'm not a natural visual designer and struggle with css. My attempts look ugly basically. Is it relatively easy to get someone to polish up a site with the architecture made in 2) or are front-end designers not used to working with those?
4) Scripts, membership site or executable
A bit further down the road, if you make an app in Python for example, how difficult is it to sell as a script? Is it even possible mass market, since setting it up isn't as easy as PHP? What if your app needs confidential usr data like logins? If you want to make it a windows exe, would it be better just to learn Java? I realize these questions are noobish.
Much appreciate feedback.
You need to decide what your end goal is. Are you going to try to work at a shop doing nothing frontend/backend work? If the answer is no, you probably need to make learning html/css your #1 priority. If you cant understand that, you're going to struggle with everything else. Always remember the one thing that all websites have is they run on html/css.
After that, I would learn the tools that you need to make your job easier. Dont get bogged down with shit like learning the theory behind database design. Much of what you will read about is for huge applications. Is that something you really need to know about today? Maybe skipping right over mysql is not in your best interest?
Now with all that said, some people will tell you everything I just said was bullshit. Backend coders dont need to learn that shit. Ok skip it. It's your decision. But really think about the realities of what you're trying to accomplish.
BTW Im not a coder. Im more of a code hack. Meaning I hack around on anything that poses me a problem until I get it to do what I want.
inb4 battle over frameworks :love-smiley-083:
Thanks for the comment, I don't have a problem with understanding html/css, it's actually quite easy syntax wise and the dom model. It's just that I do not have a good innate ability to visualize what looks good and what doesn't. And yeah, divs rarely seem to do what you want them do the first time.
It's called database normalization, http://support.microsoft.com/kb/283878/en-us
Depends what your goal is as already mentioned.
All good for front end design and for the most part are basic knowledge. XML or json is in the same group. If you're wanting to make apps that interface with other API's like facebook, you should understand basic json format.
.NET isn't bad for making standalone apps too. Also can use asp to make web services for server side stuff.
With .Net you can use Mono and write 1 language for many platforms Supported Platforms | Mono
For the relational database stuff, everything comes from this:
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Relational-Model-Database-Management-Version/dp/0201141922/"]The Relational Model for Database Management: Version 2: E. F. Codd: 9780201141924: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]
#2 About Frameworks: what that stuff does is easier to understand when you are a better programmer. I've seen some people start off learning a framework before learning the underlying language. Then they think they know that language and tell me they know how to write code, but when they try to write something outside that environment, they are trying to call a lot of stuff that isn't there, and saying there is something wrong with the machine.
Usually the way it works, or the way it should work- learn the things that all (procedural) languages have, like variables, loops, arrays, conditionals, ... Then learn some object-oriented concepts, because most frameworks depend on OOP. All these are usually taught while learning C++ or Java; I think PHP with E_ALL could also be used as a teaching language, because you can still mostly use C-style syntax.
Once you are pretty good with that stuff, you can pick up new languages a lot quicker, because instead of asking yourself "___?" you are asking yourself, "how do I do ___ in ___ language?"
The thing about frameworks- people usually don't learn them for the hell of it; they do it because they have to. The job they are at or the job they are trying to get uses it. If you like it, you may stick with it after the job is over. If not, you will start looking for other frameworks. Somewhere along the way, you might take a shot at writing your own. That is how you can recognize a good framework. If you are forced to use a framework you don't like, you will literally get vertigo every time you look at the code.
#3 You can always outsource design, but a lot of them will give you static HTML/CSS files. You need at least a basic understanding, so you can incorporate it into your server-side code. If the site doesn't look right, you need to be able to know if the problem is with the design itself, or with the code that produces it.
#4 a lot of different questions. Just know there are things out there to handle them all.
Great answers guys. Where I'm at now is:
I got this down pretty well already, except for learning when to use what and I do only iteration and no recursion for example. I also am not quite sure when it's more beneficial to make a class or when to make a function, but I understand the concepts fine.
I made a project in Python that scrapes data with different methods, like requests, mechanize, urllib etc and different data xml, json, html, csv, then stores it in a database and then I made a very simple Flask template to show some aggregates. It actually works which I'm quite pleased with and I think I could turn it into a paid service, which is my end goal for this learning project.
Next up on my study list is concurrency and worker functions (to go from 20 sec to 5 sec) and just as importantly the front end stuff, where I am unsure on what to focus on since it seems there are lots of good stuff available. Flask seems an obvious choice because it's simple and there's a tutorial and book: The Flask Mega-Tutorial, Part I: Hello, World! - miguelgrinberg.com.
I suppose I am a bit inpatient and need to really get down to practicing html/css and jquery too.
I got this down pretty well already, except for learning when to use what and I do only iteration and no recursion for example. I also am not quite sure when it's more beneficial to make a class or when to make a function, but I understand the concepts fine.
I made a project in Python that scrapes data with different methods, like requests, mechanize, urllib etc and different data xml, json, html, csv, then stores it in a database and then I made a very simple Flask template to show some aggregates. It actually works which I'm quite pleased with and I think I could turn it into a paid service, which is my end goal for this learning project.
Next up on my study list is concurrency and worker functions (to go from 20 sec to 5 sec) and just as importantly the front end stuff, where I am unsure on what to focus on since it seems there are lots of good stuff available. Flask seems an obvious choice because it's simple and there's a tutorial and book: The Flask Mega-Tutorial, Part I: Hello, World! - miguelgrinberg.com.
I suppose I am a bit inpatient and need to really get down to practicing html/css and jquery too.
I tried Ruby and couldn't stick with it.
I recently started trying to learn again and stuck with Javascript. Why? Because Javascript is no longer just client-side anymore, you can do everything with it. I don't want to learn a ton of different languages, but I do want to get competent enough to where I can code my own apps. Javascript allows this.
I did a short post about my journey last week, a helpful read for beginners I hope.
Coding for Marketers: A Skill Building Guide | Passive Profiteer.
I recently started trying to learn again and stuck with Javascript. Why? Because Javascript is no longer just client-side anymore, you can do everything with it. I don't want to learn a ton of different languages, but I do want to get competent enough to where I can code my own apps. Javascript allows this.
I did a short post about my journey last week, a helpful read for beginners I hope.
Coding for Marketers: A Skill Building Guide | Passive Profiteer.
I also played with Ruby and just didn't like it... as a web language PHP is pretty easy though and has a ton of support, python is getting there too. I'm interested in Swift now though.
I started with Zed Shaw's course - Learn Python The Hard Way.
The ideas immediately transferred over to the scripts I was making using AutoHotKey and managing my linux servers. I suddenly understood how to use functions and loops. The beauty it in all was taking my 50 lines of shit code and turning into 5 lines.
If you are balling hard already it might not be worth your time. I find genuine pleasure and interest in tinkering and building things. I say that coding is what reading does to your ability to think and reason. Reading let's you build new connections and think in new ways. Coding let's you see how things could connect which opens the doors to new thinking.
Example: In my last job I had to copy and paste a lot of things. I couldn't automate it using a simple program moving the mouse because the text was in a different place on the screen. I couldn't simply make it do ctrl+f search because it was not static text. Via programming I learned about RegEx and bam now the connection is made for how I easily automated it. Without knowing that RegEx existed I was trying to use a fork, screwdriver, and a cup to hammer a nail. The hammer works much better.
Example: In my current job I used a simple Javascript bookmarlet generator to make a one click bookmark login to a very annoying 5 field login page. This page causes everyone to clock in late and lose points in the rankings. I'm the only person with 100%. I don't know Javascript and I can't write the code from scratch, but just knowing what it was and what it could do, I have ensured a bonus for myself every quarter.
Just for fun I even created my own Counter Strike Global Offensive server on Digital Ocean and played a 10 person 128 tick friends match. It was the most fun I have ever had playing that, and we were using the Mumble I setup also. For me this is a blast, for others it might not be.
I have personally never enjoyed marketing that much. I enjoyed the money I made but I always felt extremely frustrated at having to always pay for simple tasks to be done. This has inspired me to go down a new path in life. Now I want to start marketing again and I feel excited with ideas that I can work on or have others work on.
I can understand not wanting to spend the time to master it. If you aren't even willing to learn about the basics of something new which could enrich your thinking, then you must be smarter than us all.
The ideas immediately transferred over to the scripts I was making using AutoHotKey and managing my linux servers. I suddenly understood how to use functions and loops. The beauty it in all was taking my 50 lines of shit code and turning into 5 lines.
If you are balling hard already it might not be worth your time. I find genuine pleasure and interest in tinkering and building things. I say that coding is what reading does to your ability to think and reason. Reading let's you build new connections and think in new ways. Coding let's you see how things could connect which opens the doors to new thinking.
Example: In my last job I had to copy and paste a lot of things. I couldn't automate it using a simple program moving the mouse because the text was in a different place on the screen. I couldn't simply make it do ctrl+f search because it was not static text. Via programming I learned about RegEx and bam now the connection is made for how I easily automated it. Without knowing that RegEx existed I was trying to use a fork, screwdriver, and a cup to hammer a nail. The hammer works much better.
Example: In my current job I used a simple Javascript bookmarlet generator to make a one click bookmark login to a very annoying 5 field login page. This page causes everyone to clock in late and lose points in the rankings. I'm the only person with 100%. I don't know Javascript and I can't write the code from scratch, but just knowing what it was and what it could do, I have ensured a bonus for myself every quarter.
Just for fun I even created my own Counter Strike Global Offensive server on Digital Ocean and played a 10 person 128 tick friends match. It was the most fun I have ever had playing that, and we were using the Mumble I setup also. For me this is a blast, for others it might not be.
I have personally never enjoyed marketing that much. I enjoyed the money I made but I always felt extremely frustrated at having to always pay for simple tasks to be done. This has inspired me to go down a new path in life. Now I want to start marketing again and I feel excited with ideas that I can work on or have others work on.
I can understand not wanting to spend the time to master it. If you aren't even willing to learn about the basics of something new which could enrich your thinking, then you must be smarter than us all.
I have this book
and this is really good introduction for non-programmers. Still, I rely mostly on "copy paste programming language". I have found that with the Wordpress and a bit of CSS/PHP/HTML (some databases also) knowledge and ability to think creatively I can bring to life a lot of ideas. Sure, those apps will never work optimally but, they are working at least properly (under non Facebook conditions...). That's all I need at this moment.
and this is really good introduction for non-programmers. Still, I rely mostly on "copy paste programming language". I have found that with the Wordpress and a bit of CSS/PHP/HTML (some databases also) knowledge and ability to think creatively I can bring to life a lot of ideas. Sure, those apps will never work optimally but, they are working at least properly (under non Facebook conditions...). That's all I need at this moment.
I spent 4 hours on the javascript course(codeacademy.com) today, it's forcing me to take a slower approach and I'm thoroughly enjoying it.
I can hack my way through html, css, php, any sort of scripting... but those heavier languages always seemed intimidating... reading some of the replies on here got me going again, thank you all.
I can hack my way through html, css, php, any sort of scripting... but those heavier languages always seemed intimidating... reading some of the replies on here got me going again, thank you all.
For anyone interested in learning to build reliable products quickly, I can't rep Jeffrey Way and Laracasts enough. His lessons go beyond teaching you how to use Laravel (PHP framework) and he dives into environment setups, setting up workflow tools, and deploying applications. Arguably one of the best programming instructors on the web. Go learn, son.
I have this book
and this is really good introduction for non-programmers. Still, I rely mostly on "copy paste programming language". I have found that with the Wordpress and a bit of CSS/PHP/HTML (some databases also) knowledge and ability to think creatively I can bring to life a lot of ideas. Sure, those apps will never work optimally but, they are working at least properly (under non Facebook conditions...). That's all I need at this moment.
This a cool but I just downloaded this. Very well laid out explanations.
THe more I dig into coding the more I like it
Programming is seriously the best. I am so glad I decided to learn. I am convinced that anyone can learn if they are willing to put in the time and be patient.
It takes a lot of trial and error. Learning the syntax, building stuff, refactoring, learning proper software architecture, design patterns, OOP, class structure, etc.
Really hard but extremely rewarding. There's nothing better than being able to sit down at your computer, and "magically" build something out of some code on the screen.
I just wish I would have started sooner and been able to cash in on Adult