Martin Grunin - Facebook Ads Fraud - Bank Fraud - mgrunin

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The entire North American economy is built on the false promises created by the marketing departments of ALL products/services.

Want to live an active and fun life? Drink Coke.
Want to guarantee a loving family dinner? Make Hamburger Helper.
Want to show her you really care? Buy a diamond.
Want to save the planet? Buy a Prius.
Want to be the best athlete ever? Buy Nike.

Beyond those simple promises, marketing oversells the quality of shitty movies, the quality of shitty beer, the quality of shitty fast food. It convinces people that "new" Tide really works better than the old Tide. It tricks women into buying overly priced skin and hair products. It cons loser men into thinking a fast car, an amazing watch and a nice suit is all it takes to be a hit with the ladies. It makes people overpay 20x for a $1 piece of chamois (the ShamWow), a $1 piece of flannel (the Snuggie), and just about every other crappy product sold on infomercials. It even makes people think they can get that lease on a new BMW for *just* $300/month.

Deception is the cornerstone of ALL marketing - online AND offline.

With that said, I disagree with your statement that marketing is just as morally reprehensible as fraud/theft.

With marketing, consumers have the ability to exercise "buyer beware". They have the ability to research and/or think about the claims being made in the advertising and use rational thought to determine if the claims are bullshit or not. On top of that, just about everyone realizes that advertising IS pure bullshit: exaggerated promises and claims. Deep down, a McDonalds customer knows that a Big Mac isn't the best fucking burger they'll ever have, even though the commercials sure as hell make it look like it is.

With fraud/theft though, the ability for the consumer/victim to exercise this same level of "buyer beware" caution has been eliminated by the scammer through forged and/or fake documentation. Additionally, since the fraud/theft is typically an established financial transaction, the victim doesn't have the expectation they'll be scammed.

For deception to be morally reprehensible, it has to be based on the assumption that all of those being deceived are completely ignorant of the deception.

Marketing doesn't fall under that category. It's definitely questionable, and I certainly don't consider myself a saint by any means, but marketing is absolutely not on the same level as the claims being made in the lawsuit.

(yeah this is a bit in the tl;dr range, but I take what I do quite seriously and have to speak up when I'm called a scamming cunt :))

Well spoken Steve,


Now you know, and knowing is half the battle

GO JOE!
 


Out of interest, and thanks to the scamometer (which got me thinking about this), who do you list as the top 10? (value and exposure would be the criteria I guess?)

I mean Mr Eagle is missing... Pace Lattin is up there I guess along with others...

Compared to this Eagle managed his case like a pro.
 
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To all you judgemental bastards..


John Chapter 8 : Verse 7



Pro - Tip : Life is one funny, ironic, merry go round. Never forget this. One day, life will through you a curve ball and you will need your buddies (online and offline) supporting you rather than laughing at you.
 
There is a right and a wrong way of doing Machiavelli.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4xcvSxW4WA"]Machiavelli[/ame]


Doing time is no joke. Shit.
 
To all you judgemental bastards..


John Chapter 8 : Verse 7



Pro - Tip : Life is one funny, ironic, merry go round. Never forget this. One day, life will through you a curve ball and you will need your buddies (online and offline) supporting you rather than laughing at you.

Pro -Tip for YOU fuckface... WF is a singularly BAD place to come quoting scripture.

Here's my rock- consider it fast-balled at your retarded fucking head:

dont-throw-rocks1.jpg
 


WTF. Lulz.

Remorse: That word doesn't mean what you think it does.

Yes, the lawsuit (not the media btw) alleges that Martin defrauded Facebook. While that's neither smart nor ethical, I really don't think anyone here is crying over Facebook losing a little over a quarter of a million bucks. It's a scam, but it's not going to make or break them.

The bigger issue is how the alleged scam was perpetrated. It's alleged that he took other people's names and businesses and used them to establish lines of advertising credit for his own purposes. Even if he had never used any of those accounts, just opening them in the first place is a shit bag thing to do. It's also illegal as fuck.

But to pour more salt in wound, those accounts were ran up and never paid by Martin, the people he sold the accounts to later, or the unknown nefarious character who did all of this using Martin's name as a cover. :laughing-smiley-007 So not only did the scam result in Facebook losing somewhere around $350k, it also tarnished the reputation of the people unwittingly caught up in the scam because their identity was stolen and used to run up a giant giant advertising bill that was never paid. Do you have any sympathy for them? Because at the end of the day, they were the biggest victims in all of this.

If that sounds like something a "good guy" would do, I'd hate to see where you set the bar for "just okay" guys and "bad" guys.
 
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