Massive shooting in Colorado during The Dark Knight, 14 dead

xpathfucker said:
The problem with logistics isn't a a problem at all, the issue here is the mentality that has been perpetuated generation after generation in the US households: it's normal and even necessary to have guns. Which in reality is crap.
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Gun Ownership by State (washingtonpost.com)

The majority of Americans do not own guns.

The US states with the highest percent of gun owners tend to be those with the lowest gun crime rates.

Vermont (42% with a gun in or near their home) has probably the most open gun laws. Practically anyone can walk around with any gun they want, yet they usually have the lowest crime rates in the nation. Compare that to New York (18% with guns), California (21%) and Massachusetts (13%).

Handguns in public are banned in New York City and now all of California, but again compare their gun crime rates to places like Vermont, New Hampshire and Montana.


What most Americans do own though are tanks, and we use them for our daily fast food pickups :

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvkLaa9bogU]FPSRussia Goes to Whitecastle - In a tank... - YouTube[/ame]
 
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Getting rid of guns won't stop sick motherfuckers like James Holmes from going on a loony killing spree. He could have built a bomb, he could have become a serial killer with a knife, or any other number of ways to harm people. Guns might be convenient for sick individuals like him, but getting rid of guns doesn't get rid of the problem, which is: crazy fuckers who think they are "joker" and go on killing sprees. Additionally, it would be nearly impossible to keep guns out of the hands of criminals anyways.
 
The only solution here is to remove the public's accessibility to anything that can be used as a weapon. Please write letters to your congressman to confiscate the following items:

knives
scissors
tire irons
clubs
2 by 4's
gasoline
lighter fluid
bricks
rocks
ductape
pillows
cars
rope
ice picks
screwdrivers
hammers


DO I NEED TO GO ON?
 
Andrew Scherer said:
False.

Switzerland.

One of the highest gun rates per capita in the world. Higher than the US. Also one of the highest milita gun ownership rates in the world.

One of the lowest gun crime rates in the world. Virtually none.

edit: looks like G beat me to it in mentioning Switzerland but Ill leave these stats if anyone is interested
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When I say common citizens I mean common citizens as you'll see in a bit.

Ok here are some more facts about Switzerland:
- there are around 3 million guns (US 300mil said Ly2 I duno)
- there are around 7 million swiss (300mil)
- guns are delivered by the government to military veterans only (not exactly common people as I said)
- the gun control is quite strict and since WW2 guns are delivered to those people with the sole intent of protecting their country

Now, compare that to the US reality and draw your own conclusions. By the way, recently there was a national debate and 44% of people voted for more gun control.

Edit: Forgot to say they have the highest rate of suicide in Europe, go figure.


PS: Guns to protect yourselves from the government. Really? Tin foil hats anyone? Who here has already protected themselves from their government using guns (no dead people allowed to answer)? Who? You guys are funny, you even go to the extent of saying police only exists to clean the damage. Ok, I'll give you that, I duno US police, but in Europe shit isn't like that at all.

PSS: Why hasn't all the world, except Switzerland of course Andrew, followed the US example about guns? Ok, don't answer, it's a conspiracy to keep people unarmed and unprotected.
 
xpathfucker said:
When I say common citizens I mean common citizens as you'll see in a bit.

Ok here are some more facts about Switzerland:
- there are around 3 million guns (US 300mil said Ly2 I duno)
- there are around 7 million swiss (300mil)
- guns are delivered by the government to military veterans only (not exactly common people as I said)
- the gun control is quite strict and since WW2 guns are delivered to those people with the sole intent of protecting their country

Now, compare that to the US reality and draw your own conclusions. By the way, recently there was a national debate and 44% of people voted for more gun control.


PS: Guns to protect yourselves from the government. Really? Tin foil hats anyone? Who here has already protected themselves from their government using guns (no dead people allowed to answer)? Who? You guys are funny, you even go to the extent of saying police only exists to clean the damage. Ok, I'll give you that, I duno US police, but in Europe shit isn't like that at all.

PSS: Why hasn't all the world, except Switzerland of course Andrew, followed the US example about guns? Ok, don't answer, it's a conspiracy to keep people unarmed and unprotected.
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cant you just migrate to reddit or some place like that? its sad when something looks like over the top troll but isnt actually meant that way
 
xpathfucker said:
When I say common citizens I mean common citizens as you'll see in a bit.

Ok here are some more facts about Switzerland:
- there are around 3 million guns (US 300mil said Ly2 I duno)
- there are around 7 million swiss (300mil)
- guns are delivered by the government to military veterans only (not exactly common people as I said)
- the gun control is quite strict and since WW2 guns are delivered to those people with the sole intent of protecting their country

Now, compare that to the US reality and draw your own conclusions. By the way, recently there was a national debate and 44% of people voted for more gun control.


PS: Guns to protect yourselves from the government. Really? Tin foil hats anyone? Who here has already protected themselves from their government using guns (no dead people allowed to answer)? Who? You guys are funny, you even go to the extent of saying police only exists to clean the damage. Ok, I'll give you that, I duno US police, but in Europe shit isn't like that at all.

PSS: Why hasn't all the world, except Switzerland of course Andrew, followed the US example about guns? Ok, don't answer, it's a conspiracy to keep people unarmed and unprotected.
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Switzerland has mandatory military service for all males. So saying that it's only veterans is kind of funny. Saying that the government could never go out of control is short sighted and ignorant. You can't tell what will happen in the years to come (unless you're some how psychic). Do you think everyone saw hitler, stalin, mao, etc coming?

To answer your question about WWII. The reason the US mainland wasn't invaded was because of gun ownership.
 
xpathfucker said:
PS: Guns to protect yourselves from the government. Really? Tin foil hats anyone? Who here has already protected themselves from their government using guns (no dead people allowed to answer)?
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You've really got to bone up on some basic history before you get into this.

There's a reason right to bear arms is only second to freedom of speech in the US. The founding fathers were knee deep in fighting for independence from another country.

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

-Thomas Jefferson
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Strange bit of news related to the Aurora episode...

Last month, a girl named Jessica Ghawi was at a food court in Eaton Centre in Toronto. She left her seat. A few moments later, a gunman sat down in her seat and opened fire into the crowd. You can find Ghawi's impressions of the event at her blog here.

She was one of the fatalities in Aurora.

jessica-ghawi-pic_418x485.jpg


Good grief. That is wildly coincidental.
 
Andrew Scherer said:
You've really got to bone up on some basic history before you get into this.

There's a reason right to bear arms is only second to freedom of speech in the US. The founding fathers were knee deep in fighting for independence from another country.
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19th century law as I said, made all sense at the time. Nowadays (the right to bear arms) only makes sense if want it to.
 
xpathfucker said:
19th century law as I said, made all sense at the time. Nowadays (the right to bear arms) only makes sense if want it to.
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Genocides occur in Africa with some regularity. There were 3 major genocides I can think of off the top of my head less than 80 years ago.

Self -defense makes sense to anyone who feels that government is too big and too violent. Which seems to be an increasing number of people.

It also makes sense to people who believe in self-ownership, property rights, and individual liberty.

As an aside, are you British? Your written english is atrocious.
 
xpathfucker said:
PS: Guns to protect yourselves from the government. Really? Tin foil hats anyone? Who here has already protected themselves from their government using guns (no dead people allowed to answer)? Who?
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Every gun owning American has by their simple ownership of firearms. You really just don't get it. Your question is misintended because it's not relevant to individuals. It's relevant to the effect of the population as a whole.
 
Warning: Europeans and liberals, you probably won't like or understand this.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63GiXzpfGhA"]4409 -- Brother carries AR-15 Rifle at Obama Rally - YouTube[/ame]
 
guerilla said:
Genocides occur in Africa with some regularity. There were 3 major genocides I can think of off the top of my head less than 80 years ago.

Self -defense makes sense to anyone who feels that government is too big and too violent. Which seems to be an increasing number of people.

It also makes sense to people who believe in self-ownership, property rights, and individual liberty.

As an aside, are you British? Your written english is atrocious.
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Genocides do occur in Africa, unfortunately, not in the US. If that was a way to justify the ownership of guns, well... Why do you guys have to create this exaggerated scenarios? It has a manipulative purpose and you and I know it. So please, let's cut the crap and get real.

Self defense with guns would make sense if your government was effectively too big and violent. Agree. We are still talking about the US right?

Sorry if my Engrish is not well written. I'm not English and I don't see why my nationality would be relevant to this matter.

Btw are gun control laws in Canada equal to the ones in the US?


MSTeacher said:
Every gun owning American has by their simple ownership of firearms. You really just don't get it. Your question is misintended because it's not relevant to individuals. It's relevant to the effect of the population as a whole.
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My question was a way to easily show that arguments like, "I should own guns to protect myself from the government (whether it's now or in the future)", are just nonsense. That's is why you were unable to answer with a simple yes.

The vast majority of countries, does not justify civilians bearing guns. Some do, like a few African countries. But, again we are talking about the US.
 
xpathfucker said:
Self defense with guns would make sense if your government was effectively too big and violent. Agree. We are still talking about the US right?
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I am pretty sure you can't argue that the US government is small.

So, how do you define violence? And after that, what is too violent?
 
xpathfucker said:
Btw are gun control laws in Canada equal to the ones in the US?
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No, they are closer to the EU model of victim disarmament.

xpathfucker said:
Sorry if my Engrish is not well written. I'm not English and I don't see why my nationality would be relevant to this matter.
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If you were British, I thought it would matter that you couldn't speak English well. I thought you were British until today.

SUP3RNOVA said:
I am pretty sure you can't argue that the US government is small.
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The US government is the largest government in history.
 
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