Why is Africa Fucked?

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Waterboi

Secret Lovers?
Nov 15, 2006
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So i just watched Hotel Rwanda (i know it's an old movie) but it got me thinking why is africa so fucked up? I know WW2 and Hitler slaughtered the jews and also Milsovic but when you look on a long term history view they can't compare to Africa.

There have only been 2 great empires in Africa the Egyptians 4000 years ago and The great city of Carthage 2200 years ago.

Africa has AIDS, starvation, disease, civil unrest, mass killings

What Africa does have is cheap labor, diamonds, oil, and most of all the creatures in nature

China has cheap labour

Saudi Arbia has oil

Thailand or Brasil has nature and beauty so ie tourism.

The only thing they dont have is leadership!

Am i missing somethin?

Help me out, i know this is intense for wicked fire anyways!
 


Read "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jarod Diamond for some pretty interesting theories.
 
i dont know much, but there is so much corruption, i think any way out of the poverty they are in at the moment would be stopped by the corrupt bastards at the top taking all the money.
 
Um.

Slave trade. Brutal massacres.

After that, during industrial revolution Europe (mainly Belgium) comes in for the Ivory. Heart of Darkness by Conrad something. Horrible times. They called it the Black Massacre, 5 million people died.

After the ivory phase it was the rubber trees. Which was even worse because more workers were needed. And there were quotas. And the deadly reinforcement of them.

While the rest of the world was advancing, Africa was getting the shit kicked out of it, repeatedly.
 
The place has been exploited and raped for eons by foreigners and natives. And what's worse, the warlord/monarchy natives that do gain control over their land, refuse to give a shit about the common people. And then the common people stop giving a shit. And they certainly don't give a shit about their neighboring natives, so they steal their shit, and kill them. As a result, a lot of shitty situations where everything is covered in shit and nobody really cares because it is so depressing.







shit.
 
OMG, LOL. AFRICA IS NOT A COUNTRY IDIOTS.

strat1x, yeah good logic there, unfortunately, North America doesn't have a government either. Neither does Europe, or Asia, fuck, the world is screwed, these continents don't have a government, only the countries within them!!

Now that this is out of the way, what fucking country in Africa are you talking about? There are countries there that are doing very well, and others like Somalia that are fucked up.
 
OMG, LOL. AFRICA IS NOT A COUNTRY IDIOTS.

strat1x, yeah good logic there, unfortunately, North America doesn't have a government either. Neither does Europe, or Asia, fuck, the world is screwed, these continents don't have a government, only the countries within them!!

Now that this is out of the way, what fucking country in Africa are you talking about? There are countries there that are doing very well, and others like Somalia that are fucked up.

Well Europe kinda does have a government in some ways, the EU makes a lot decisions otherwise taken by national governments - but that's being a bit pedantic really.

I agree with you. South Africa, Morocco or Egypt for example aren't doing too badly compared to say Sudan or Zimbabwe. Maybe not up to western standards of living, but some African nations are certainly on a par with many Asian, East European & South American Countries.

Much of the blame lies with my country - England, and other European nations. Slavery and colonisation really fucked up most of the continent and now after independence we continue to largely ignore the problems there, which we have a responsibility to help them deal with. The French seem to have been doing some good work in the Ivory Coast though, wish I could say the same about us British and Zimbabwe.

One positive point though, with the possible exception of South Africa, African nations are now generally governed by the natives. Something which certainly can't be said about many other parts of the world colonised by Europeans, particularly North America.

I'm no expert, but it seems that the problems of bad government stem from years of being ruled by other nations then sudden independence over the last century. If you were told what to do all your life and then suddenly had to think for yourself how would you act? Also, many nations have been forced into a European style democracy, which probably isn't the best form of government for a country with a completely different culture - same with the Middle East really.

Trade is playing a massive part in the current problems in Africa. These people have a great climate & cheap labour, yet can't sell their produce because Europe and America insist on handing out billions of Dollars to their own farmers. This is something that really pisses me off actually - seeing my taxes going to support rich farmers - especially when pretty much any other industry (for example coal mining) is allowed to die out because it isn't able to compete.

I don't agree with it, but I can understand it more in Europe - with it's socialist background - than America. America is perceived as supporting capitalist enterprise, not government handouts. Yet they pay cotton farmers billions of dollars of taxpayers money each year so they can compete with poor Africans.

Europe and America also impose import tariffs on many goods from poorer nations, or will sign free trade agreements only if the countries agree to measures like privatisation of public services. Foreign companies often take control of these services and want to make a profit from them. This certainly doesn't help a poor developing country that is also saddled with debt from money borrowed - and spent - decades ago.

Westerners have also spread Christianity to Africa - particularly Catholicism. This has done enormous damage, not only to their cultures but also by making people unwilling to use condoms - resulting in over population in many places and the rampant spread of HIV/AIDS.

As human beings we have a moral responsibility to sort this shit out, and if our governments actually gave a shit then we could do it. But no, they care about supporting business and getting re-elected.

Unfortunately the people that run our countries value money more than human life.

If they spent a fraction of what has been spent on the Iraq fiasco in Africa they could've provided clean water and AIDS drugs for everyone and virtually eliminated malaria and TB. If troops were sent to places that actually needed and wanted them then the genocide in Rwanda and Darfur, if not prevented would certainly not have resulted in such a tragic loss of life.

Fuck, this is makin me sad just thinking about this shit, but what can the little people do? Support charities, buy fairtrade stuff, try to vote for the right people, spread information... not much else really.

Sorry, this is such a long post. The more I wrote, the more I thought of other things to write. I don't know much about it really - this is barely the tip of the iceberg. It's not fuckin simple.
 
Well Europe kinda does have a government in some ways, the EU makes a lot decisions otherwise taken by national governments - but that's being a bit pedantic really.

I agree with you. South Africa, Morocco or Egypt for example aren't doing too badly compared to say Sudan or Zimbabwe. Maybe not up to western standards of living, but some African nations are certainly on a par with many Asian, East European & South American Countries.

Much of the blame lies with my country - England, and other European nations. Slavery and colonisation really fucked up most of the continent and now after independence we continue to largely ignore the problems there, which we have a responsibility to help them deal with. The French seem to have been doing some good work in the Ivory Coast though, wish I could say the same about us British and Zimbabwe.

One positive point though, with the possible exception of South Africa, African nations are now generally governed by the natives. Something which certainly can't be said about many other parts of the world colonised by Europeans, particularly North America.

I'm no expert, but it seems that the problems of bad government stem from years of being ruled by other nations then sudden independence over the last century. If you were told what to do all your life and then suddenly had to think for yourself how would you act? Also, many nations have been forced into a European style democracy, which probably isn't the best form of government for a country with a completely different culture - same with the Middle East really.

Trade is playing a massive part in the current problems in Africa. These people have a great climate & cheap labour, yet can't sell their produce because Europe and America insist on handing out billions of Dollars to their own farmers. This is something that really pisses me off actually - seeing my taxes going to support rich farmers - especially when pretty much any other industry (for example coal mining) is allowed to die out because it isn't able to compete.

I don't agree with it, but I can understand it more in Europe - with it's socialist background - than America. America is perceived as supporting capitalist enterprise, not government handouts. Yet they pay cotton farmers billions of dollars of taxpayers money each year so they can compete with poor Africans.

Europe and America also impose import tariffs on many goods from poorer nations, or will sign free trade agreements only if the countries agree to measures like privatisation of public services. Foreign companies often take control of these services and want to make a profit from them. This certainly doesn't help a poor developing country that is also saddled with debt from money borrowed - and spent - decades ago.

Westerners have also spread Christianity to Africa - particularly Catholicism. This has done enormous damage, not only to their cultures but also by making people unwilling to use condoms - resulting in over population in many places and the rampant spread of HIV/AIDS.

As human beings we have a moral responsibility to sort this shit out, and if our governments actually gave a shit then we could do it. But no, they care about supporting business and getting re-elected.

Unfortunately the people that run our countries value money more than human life.

If they spent a fraction of what has been spent on the Iraq fiasco in Africa they could've provided clean water and AIDS drugs for everyone and virtually eliminated malaria and TB. If troops were sent to places that actually needed and wanted them then the genocide in Rwanda and Darfur, if not prevented would certainly not have resulted in such a tragic loss of life.

Fuck, this is makin me sad just thinking about this shit, but what can the little people do? Support charities, buy fairtrade stuff, try to vote for the right people, spread information... not much else really.

Sorry, this is such a long post. The more I wrote, the more I thought of other things to write. I don't know much about it really - this is barely the tip of the iceberg. It's not fuckin simple.

While your thinking is on the right track, I believe that you should research and better educate yourself on what is happening in Africa. Yes there maybe an exceptions here of there (and Morocco and Egypt are certainly not a good example since they are both based on a one man rule and can be bloody - Trust me I know as I lived in Morocco for many years and would probably be dead if it was not for my status as a foreigner in that country) but in general this is what I call the abandoned continent. It was invaded, raped, abused by colonization that imposed a European social order to people who had no concept of the "European" social order (look at what happened to the native Americans), and now it is blamed for all the bad that is happening while it continues to be raped (but via the war lords or crooked government that the EU and US and whomever has helped put in place.

Bottom line this is a true cross between racism and greed that makes this continent a sad example of what people and nations can do at our lowest. (I write OUR because we are all responsible and probably could do to some degree something to try to change this situation as we did for Apartheid)
 
colonization, slavery and other actions long ago are all valid factors in the lack of development in africa. What I dont hear is the fact that much of the "Aid" sent to africa by the west is not to help the people in Africa but farmers and companies at home.

Recently read about USAID case in 2002 offering to provide Zambia with food aid in the form of a unbelievable large amount of corn . The problem was related to a local shortage and the offer form the US was to flood the country with low cost corn meal. The US refused to agree to a smaller donation of food to only meet the needed shortfall or direct funds to assist in purchasing and transporting food available in the region. Sounds good right lots of free food? What is the real result? well flood the market so the farmers that are producing but not enough go out of operation. With the change in the supply the price drops and all the farmers get nothing for their crops. "Aid" as a means of destroying local agriculture and create dependence on outside aid.
By the way Zambia refused the USAID and found the needed food from other sources.

Look at GM food and patents on seeds, when you give farmers GM seeds that do not produce seeds that can be used for next year.

Or Maybe Microsoft "donating" software only to turn around and sell add ons. dont get me started on the MS issue (I am a linux user).

Really, a leading cause of bad government, lack of food and lack of transparency is because people all over the world are getting rich from it today while pointing at problems that existed 100 years ago.
 
jtouboul - you're right, I'm sure I could've found better examples. I wasn't trying to comment on the system of governments of those countries though - not in that point anyway, more the fact that some African nations are (in some ways) better off than others. I wasn't aware Morocco is a dictatorship, but the existence of a tourist industry suggests at least some Moroccans are wealthier than some of their neighbours who are literally starving to death.

I agree completely - it is our responsibility to sort it, but how? Unfortunately, as sad as it is, the average un-thinking westerner will always want to put their own interests above those of some distant country. It would take a massive shift for people to elect governments here that would cut domestic spending or increase taxes and put the money where it's really needed. Even now, we aren't giving the money we promised.

Immigration seems to be a big concern, both in Europe and the US, yet the solutions proposed never deal with the root cause. Maybe some day people will realise that the only way to stop problems with economic migration is to improve the quality of life in other countries so there is no need or desire for people to seek a better life in Britain, America and elsewhere.

There are so many issues and really doubt we'll see a solution while the 'us and them' thinking prevails, the same thinking that says 15 kids dead in Virginia is more news-worthy than 50 dead in Iraq.
 
One of the issues in africa is that chubby red faced american women with suspiciously flat shoes are teaming up against african communities.

Various global warming groups, who glorify the peasant life, are not allowing african communities to take advantage of their resources. Nuclear/coal/etc are off limits and we'll probably start tapping into their mines when we want it for ourselves. it's terrible.

Here's an example: A small african clinic serving 5 villages is only allowed to have solar power. The solar panel system costs them much more than our electricity does here, yet it only produces enough to run EITHER a refrigerator or 1 light bulb. They need the refrigerator to keep the medications/whatever cold, so they can't use the light.

Great. Good job, chubby enviro peasant loving college kids! :(
 
One of the issues in africa is that chubby red faced american women with suspiciously flat shoes are teaming up against african communities.

Various global warming groups, who glorify the peasant life, are not allowing african communities to take advantage of their resources. Nuclear/coal/etc are off limits and we'll probably start tapping into their mines when we want it for ourselves. it's terrible.

Here's an example: A small african clinic serving 5 villages is only allowed to have solar power. The solar panel system costs them much more than our electricity does here, yet it only produces enough to run EITHER a refrigerator or 1 light bulb. They need the refrigerator to keep the medications/whatever cold, so they can't use the light.

Great. Good job, chubby enviro peasant loving college kids! :(

I'm all for renewable energy but that's just fuckin stupid! They must be pretty shitty panels too - £20 ones off ebay will run light bulbs no prob even with Britain's crap climate, fridges need a lot more juice though.

I guess it depends on the cost and feasibility of building power plants and distributing electricity. One thing with solar panels is they can be used anywhere and after the initial cost are cheap to run.

You heard about the new solar power plant in Spain? - it's fuckin amazing, hundreds of mirrors tracking the sun, directing into onto one super solar panel. Powers a city or something. Seriously looks like it could be the future of energy - there's talk of building massive ones in the Sahara.. but sending the juice to Europe, not keeping it in Africa :mad:
 
Thinking Africa only needs leadership and asking why are they so fucked?

That's like asking:
Why can't Israel and Palestine just get along?
Why can't the US win the "War on Drugs"
Why can't the U.S. defeat terrorists?

It's more than infrastructure, money and leadership. It's also culture, religion and freedom of choice. And too often we freely choose evil.
 
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