Productive Business Relationships

[zimok]

I'm just asking for general advice(or books, videos, etc) from anyone who's had a successful partnership towards a common business goal.

I'm sure a lot of you are in the same boat so I'll just state my current situation.

In life, you have friends you grow up with and if you're terribly lucky you still have them around later on because you still hold common interest and enjoy each others company. You discover or start working in AM, your friends dwindle over time to a few select ones who you still hold dear. Not because you suddenly don't like the other ones, simply because you don't have time.

To make any sort of progress in this game you need an incredible amount of dedication, re-reinforcement of productive routines, and hard-work. The 'better' you get, the more secluded you become. I'm definitely not anticipating this part going down, I don't even want it to, it's what will separate the successes from the failures.

I want to hear from people who have successful business relationships right now, how did you foster and initiate them? How did you meet your partner(s)? Has the overall effect of having a like minded individual in your life helped you in the long run?

In the end I'd like to be part of something greater than myself, an entity with power and direction simply impossible by the lone individual. Being part of it would mean the enrichment of others and through that, the enrichment of yourself.

This entity once started would have a constant growth through constant effort, that no single individual could hope to recreate, and a quality of work that would be impossible to find in an outsourced worker. Accountability, direction, devotion from select individuals who are all good at things and work together like a clock, always ticking, always producing, always thinking.

Is this wishful thinking? I don't think so, it just takes a quick look around to see what's possible with a devoted group of individuals striving for the same thing. This group would be highly exclusive, wouldn't up-sell or take advantage of any of its members(like many programs we know) and through the creative combination of skill sets would become a company within its own.

I've seen similar duo's before in several of Wes Mahler's interview's (Prosper202), and it's something that stuck with me since. If anyone has been mulling over the same thoughts and see potential in the types of things I mention, PM me. If there's enough interest, we'll choose a method of communication and get started. No matter what, I will take charge and make something happen with what I receive.

cliff notes: Zimok noticed that working alone ends up working against you, seeks advice from people with constructive business relationships. Would like to start an entity greater than himself that would strive for the benefit of all within the organization.

 

[LittleMike]

I think what you mean is starting a real business. i.e. providing value, building a brand, raising capital etc... Rather than just doing the same thing (IM) but in a group.

IM is like a cash grab, building a business is how you get really rich.

 

[HardSale]

Interesting

My first thought is that it is difficult mojo to create and it takes the right kind of people. I'm in a partnership and if you are a type A personality it can be very difficult to relinquish control sometimes.

Clear, well documented roles are a necessity. That said, there are a million things that crop up that aren't in the operating agreement. Even if the roles are clearly defined, is one partner an efficient, hard working machine while another is more laid back and not keeping up with their production? If you already know how the person works, then great. If you have no existing working relationship then be careful.

Another issue is whether you are a entrepreneur/businessman or consider yourself a craftsman. If you are a graphic designer you can only bill so many hours in a week doing graphic design.

If I am going to enter a partnership it would have to be because the endeavor requires specialized skills that I don't have and outsourcing those skills is either not practical or effective and an equity stake is exchanged to bring someone on board.

Your thought process is right on. There is much more efficiency with scale and size. (to a certain degree).

 

[zimok]

LittleMike,

Yes, you're right. This isn't just IM in a group, it's the combination of group knowledge and focused output. That's why I'm asking for advice on this thing as a whole from people who have been there before.

The idea and structure is vague on purpose, the real design would come from the group who forms it.
I'm just testing the waters here, even if there's limited interest I will still do my best to network everyone together and at the very worst you'll meet some people and if you like them, work together.

 

[HardSale]

I'm going to be at Affiliate Summit in New York. I'm going to meet some WF cats and see what we can come up with.

 

[zimok]

Interesting

My first thought is that it is difficult mojo to create and it takes the right kind of people. I'm in a partnership and if you are a type A personality it can be very difficult to relinquish control sometimes.

Clear, well documented roles are a necessity. That said, there are a million things that crop up that aren't in the operating agreement. Even if the roles are clearly defined, is one partner an efficient, hard working machine while another is more laid back and not keeping up with their production? If you already know how the person works, then great. If you have no existing working relationship then be careful.

Another issue is whether you are a entrepreneur/businessman or consider yourself a craftsman. If you are a graphic designer you can only bill so many hours in a week doing graphic design.

If I am going to enter a partnership it would have to be because the endeavor requires specialized skills that I don't have and outsourcing those skills is either not practical or effective and an equity stake is exchanged to bring someone on board.

Your thought process is right on. There is much more efficiency with scale and size. (to a certain degree).

Thank you for your input. I agree with you on every point. I just want to get into this one a bit more,

If I am going to enter a partnership it would have to be because the endeavor requires specialized skills that I don't have and outsourcing those skills is either not practical or effective and an equity stake is exchanged to bring someone on board.

Everything can be outsourced if you find the right skill set, but what I'm referring to is simply a way for the right potential to meet the right potential. A group that can connect, share thoughts, and work together on a common project that they both love.

There must be a thousand of these yin-yang type relationships that would have tons of potential for great things just on this forum alone. The problem is connecting them through a common entity that has ground rules. Those who don't produce, wouldn't find anyone to work with.

There's practically an infinite amount of niches that such an entity could end up dominating. Profit sharing would be discussed by all parties depending on the amount of work they can provide towards aforementioned project, and the documentation would be an essential idea as well.

The ideal business partners would mutually benefit each other, things could get very complicated with more than 4-5 but I look at this way. If you connect 4 or 5 people who love something, they will make it work. It's not simply choosing what you think will make the big bucks, but choosing something the team can work on consistently.

Every single Wikipedia page of quality was created by someone who didn't want or need anything back. It was a labor of love, not a labor based on desired outcome. As soon as this is your primary motivator for doing anything, you won't be doing it for very long.

I think the guidance, friendship, and bonding of like minded individuals that connect on a similar medium would be beneficial for all. That's what I'm trying to convey here. Even if the entity ends up being 20 different groups which are all working towards their own common goal and are just loosely affiliated with what brought them together, that would still be a success. Because the ones who are serious about it, will always have the organization to fall back on if their group fails. The ones who produced for their past teams, might be asked by other members to join their team for a percentage of the profit sharing.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

A partnership evokes equality. Thats a scary concept in IM where an entire business can be cloned very easily and very quickly. And heaven forbid the cloner is a better marketer than you.

I would be very nervous working in a partnership. Sure, your combined efforts could speed both of you to great results. But greed has no boundaries... remember in the film 'Blow' how the guy got cut out by both his partners. Despite the fact they were all earning 100 of millions of dollars each!

I was always very close to partnering up but as my outsourced staff and my experience with JVs grew, I never found the need for a partnership.

Now talking and hanging out with businessmen and woman on your level and above... that is essential to your succes, I believe. Call it a mastermind group, a meetup or idle Skype chatting... you will always learn new resources, vendors, sites etc. People just love conveying their knowledge. It's human nature. They won't give away their whole gameplan... but you could get the jist of it easily over time.

It best to foster these relationships with your staff, not entrepreneurs. Staff are happy earning a raise. Entrepreneurs will want the whole cake and the table it came on.

 

[zimok]

A partnership evokes equality. Thats a scary concept in IM where an entire business can be cloned very easily and very quickly. And heaven forbid the cloner is a better marketer than you.

I would be very nervous working in a partnership. Sure, your combined efforts could speed both of you to great results. But greed has no boundaries... remember in the film 'Blow' how the guy got cut out by both his partners. Despite the fact they were all earning 100 of millions of dollars each!

I was always very close to partnering up but as my outsourced staff and my experience with JVs grew, I never found the need for a partnership.

Now talking and hanging out with businessmen and woman on your level and above... that is essential to your succes, I believe. Call it a mastermind group, a meetup or idle Skype chatting... you will always learn new resources, vendors, sites etc. People just love conveying their knowledge. It's human nature. They won't give away their whole gameplan... but you could get the jist of it easily over time.

It best to foster these relationships with your staff, not entrepreneurs. Staff are happy earning a raise. Entrepreneurs will want the whole cake and the table it came on.

All good points, every one of them should be taken into consideration.

I guess it was a case of hastily writing a post while simultaneously having too much faith in the intentions of my fellow human beings.

 

[shortattract]

How do you figure out what equity stake to give someone? Just assume what it would cost to do their job? Wouldnt you then also need to have an idea of what your company is worth? What if the project isn't making money yet? And would it only be on a per project basis? Or do relationships like "lets just make money together" work at all?

I'd love to hear how a partnership could actually work out, because I just dont understand it.

Does anyone here have a succesful partnership?

If I am going to enter a partnership it would have to be because the endeavor requires specialized skills that I don't have and outsourcing those skills is either not practical or effective and an equity stake is exchanged to bring someone on board.

 

[Dare Devil]

Does anyone here have a succesful partnership?

I've had several very successful partnerships. I've also had a few nightmares.

One thing I always look for in a partnership in online endeavors is how long they've been in active in this line of business successfully enough to sustain themselves doing it; meaning they don't have to rely on a day job for income.

Now, while I understand that there are some very motivated, intelligent, and talented people that do still hold day jobs, the fact of the matter is that if I'm working on a project with someone, I want them to be just as involved in it as I am. And when I dive into something, I go all out. While I can't expect someone with a wife and three kids to pull back-to-back all-nighters like I occasionally do, I do expect them to be devoted enough where I don't have to hunt them down almost daily to talk about a project we're working on together.

And that's what seems to happen when I've partnered up with people that were relatively new to this business. I understand everyone has bad days but it seems to me that someone that has paid the bills by doing strictly IM/AM over a period of several years has not only the resources and dedication but also the drive to get things done. Whereas, all-too-often something will come up with newer guys in the event that a project gets the least bit tedious or when/if it hits a speed bump or two. "I got sick" or "I have to go visit my uncle" or whatever. Like I said, I realize stuff comes up for everyone, it just seems to always come up moreso when things aren't exactly "la-la land" and it requires some actual elbow grease to take the project to the promise land.

That's what I look for in a partner and it's increasingly difficult to find, yet easier at the same time. Because there's so many "flash in the pan" people out there now, its getting easier to tell someone that's been in the game through the ups and downs vs. someone that just rode the acai berry wave for a few months and is looking for the next big thing.

And no offense to anyone that did that, I'm just saying that for me, personally, to partner up with someone they'd have to have a little more background than throwing up a few facebook ads and installing P202.

/my .02

 

[BullsEye]

Mine started at ASW. Getting a chance to meet everyone face to face and see what I was like really went a long way as far as networking and trust goes.

Over time, one of the most important principals is to keep your integrity so that people can trust you, with that there's really no limit and you'll be able to sleep better at night knowing the people you work with closely won't turn on you or betray you.

As far as productivity, don't take 10 words to say what you could say in 3 words, it took me months to learn that.

Make time to enjoy the fruits of your labor with your successful biz partners, you'll thank yourself later when you get out of that secluded hardcore day to day grind state of mind. Obviously always get the right wording for agreements to protect yourself and for complete transparency.

If something goes sour, be prepared for that, and an important rule of thumb is never to take it personal, no matter what, it will keep you clear-headed.

Never restrict yourself to one set of ideas or beliefs as far as business advice goes, you box yourself in and don't do anyone any favors. Like you said, you just don't have time for your old friendships anymore, which is bound to happen once you reach a certain level of success, just accept it for what it is and don't dwell.

But yeah as far as your situation goes, work to find those people with that level of integrity, and take some time off completely from work every now and then to balance it all out, disconnecting every now and then can be really relaxing and peaceful.

A new idea or project can seem exciting when there's a great opportunity to be had, but balancing out with some r&r every now and then will be good, and who knows, you might even make some new friends in the process!

/end rant

 

[zimok]

... but balancing out with some r&r every now and then will be good, and who knows, you might even make some new friends in the process!

/end rant

I'm balancing it with,

Tonight, .

 

[BullsEye]

haha, touche! well played

 

[bigballin]

You can create that IN the business. A good business has that mastermind element to it, my head of recruitment is like part of my master-mind group and we bounce ideas off of each other ALL DAY related to marketing. I can almost replace his job now and boost my earnings by 12% but since I've had so many brain storming sessions with him I want to keep him on just to have that type of collaboration that you recognize as so important.

 

[ncmedia]

I'll weigh in.

Have about 30 offers and over half of them are with partners, and most planned launches right now are also w/partners or groups.

Some of the splits are straight 50/50 two people, some are as little as 15% of the main account of a group, and others up to 80%. < The 15% is way more valuable in some cases when an offer or launch explodes on you.

Tasks per project are usually a natural fit and it's more of a 'real recognize real' before you approach the idea, and chances are the soon to be partner is also thinking/looking to expand with likeminded go-getters. I can usually spot a great fit within a matter of minutes in a phone convo, and other times you find out the hard way x months later when shit falls apart on you due to their half assed attempts.

There is really no filter other than your instincts and your track record. I've had this chat with a few guys from here actually, and it's literally like picking your next girlfriend. You'll have ups/downs/differences and either resolve or run. Now I tend to partner with people that have something to lose, are in long term relationships with their partners, and have lost it all (or some) at least once so far.

Kinda fuct that I (have to) trust people online that I've never met, probably never will, and have banked well over 6-7 digits collectively with each. I trust these people more than my own friends in some cases, even if the money is coming to me first before the split.

You'd think that two heads are always better than one, and in most cases it works, BUT - sometimes if you meet someone with too many overlapping skillsets, they may impress you because they understand YOUR world, however that doesn't mean the two of you will make it much farther than you might on your own. Look for those that have impressive skill sets you don't.

As an AM'er, I wouldn't bother partnering - as a vendor, a middleman, a part of a bigger group of earners, or a complimentary skill set to top level business - dive in head first with minimal risk and try to keep as much in-house as you can.

Bottom line for my world: YES, I need partners to be where I am, and no I wouldn't be half as far without them.

TL..
NC.

 

[Spliffic]

A partnership evokes equality. Thats a scary concept in IM where an entire business can be cloned very easily and very quickly. And heaven forbid the cloner is a better marketer than you.
.
.
.
It best to foster these relationships with your staff, not entrepreneurs. Staff are happy earning a raise. Entrepreneurs will want the whole cake and the table it came on.

QFT.

And that's what seems to happen when I've partnered up with people that were relatively new to this business. I understand everyone has bad days but it seems to me that someone that has paid the bills by doing strictly IM/AM over a period of several years has not only the resources and dedication but also the drive to get things done. Whereas, all-too-often something will come up with newer guys in the event that a project gets the least bit tedious or when/if it hits a speed bump or two. "I got sick" or "I have to go visit my uncle" or whatever.. Like I said, I realize stuff comes up for everyone, it just seems to always come up moreso when things aren't exactly "la-la land" and it requires some actual elbow grease to take the project to the promise land.

Lol, I've experienced this so many times. You should hear some of the excuses I used to get. My favorite was "I was attacked and had to go away for a few days".

The thing is, AM is a tough business that requires dedication, a good work ethic, brains (common sense) and a willingness to adapt in a heartbeat. These qualities are hard to find, and that's why everyone who tries AM isn't a millionaire because they give up so quickly. You get alot of people who were successful at one thing at one time, but can't get another going.

Someone else referenced in another thread (I think it was the Mastermind thread) that AM is a cash grab, and that building more longer term goals such as writing an ebook (I know sounds cheesy but alot more sustainable than an AM campaign), product sourcing and ecommerce, or a high traffic site has alot more sustainability. I completely agree with this statement, although don't get me wrong I love the cash that AM generates. Driving traffic direct to an offer or a lander has a lot less moving parts than an ecommerce store (where you need to pick goods, fulfillment, merchant processing, shipping, returns etc, PLUS traffic to your lander, optimization etc).

I always know I'll have my hands in the internet world, but as far as earnings go, I'd pick a sustainable $500 per day solid rather than a thousand here, and a thousand there, and then instantly gone until you pick up and find the next successful campaign. Getting back to partnerships, I would definitely go in on something sustainable, but would not go into something that's just AM related. I would rather be part of a mastermind group or collaboration when it comes to AM stuff.

 

[evelynds]

I'm just asking for general advice(or books, videos, etc) from anyone who's had a successful partnership towards a common business goal.

I'm sure a lot of you are in the same boat so I'll just state my current situation.

In life, you have friends you grow up with and if you're terribly lucky you still have them around later on because you still hold common interest and enjoy each others company. You discover or start working in AM, your friends dwindle over time to a few select ones who you still hold dear. Not because you suddenly don't like the other ones, simply because you don't have time.

To make any sort of progress in this game you need an incredible amount of dedication, re-reinforcement of productive routines, and hard-work. The 'better' you get, the more secluded you become. I'm definitely not anticipating this part going down, I don't even want it to, it's what will separate the successes from the failures.

I want to hear from people who have successful business relationships right now, how did you foster and initiate them? How did you meet your partner(s)? Has the overall effect of having a like minded individual in your life helped you in the long run?

In the end I'd like to be part of something greater than myself, an entity with power and direction simply impossible by the lone individual. Being part of it would mean the enrichment of others and through that, the enrichment of yourself.

This entity once started would have a constant growth through constant effort, that no single individual could hope to recreate, and a quality of work that would be impossible to find in an outsourced worker. Accountability, direction, devotion from select individuals who are all good at things and work together like a clock, always ticking, always producing, always thinking.

Is this wishful thinking? I don't think so, it just takes a quick look around to see what's possible with a devoted group of individuals striving for the same thing. This group would be highly exclusive, wouldn't up-sell or take advantage of any of its members(like many programs we know) and through the creative combination of skill sets would become a company within its own.

I've seen similar duo's before in several of Wes Mahler's interview's (Prosper202), and it's something that stuck with me since. If anyone has been mulling over the same thoughts and see potential in the types of things I mention, PM me. If there's enough interest, we'll choose a method of communication and get started. No matter what, I will take charge and make something happen with what I receive.

cliff notes: Zimok noticed that working alone ends up working against you, seeks advice from people with constructive business relationships. Would like to start an entity greater than himself that would strive for the benefit of all within the organization.

your whole post is solved with the introduction of staff -as in- payloan employees. find them. perhaps [most likely?] not even in the same country..