Need advice/opinions/thoughts on this

LMSInc.

LMSInc.

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Oct 21, 2009
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I have a potential client I've been talking to and it's the first client that I am just generally 'lost' with when it comes to ideas and shit.

They sell a physical product via internet/phone orders. The product is something that would be used more or less by people brainstorming on projects, building out ideas, things like that.

They have been around since the 90's and used to do decently well (~$50k/mo profit) with just a few big customers that would give repeat business, but those big customers disappeared in the years following 9/11 and at this point they are down to like ~$3k/mo in orders.

I already have a few really solid ideas for them, but I could really use a little insight from the type of person that would actually use a product like this.

People that like to visualize data a lot, people that need to map out ideas and group/match different items, etc.

WF is the first place I thought of when I asked myself where the hell I could find people like that!

So if any of you feel like taking a few minutes to help a dude out and let me know if you think you'd use the product or how you may use it, please shoot me a PM and I'll shoot ya the website (dear god is it outdated) and we can hop on Skype for a few.

I'd really appreciate it
 


Honest advice? Tell them to go find a new business model. Collaboration tools are available either free or extremely cheap everywhere. Unless they have some major corporate connections, which is doesn't sound like they do, they're going to be fighting a very uphill battle.
 
Kiopa_Matt said:
Honest advice? Tell them to go find a new business model. Collaboration tools are available either free or extremely cheap everywhere.
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That's a bit harsh man. If there wasn't such a massive market out there for these kind of applications and services, with tons of earning potential, there wouldn't be so many companies making them. Many have free starter accounts and that sort of thing, but most offer paid packages for more features/capacity.

If this company has as much experience and reputation as the OP is leading us to believe, it sounds like they need to analyse what the competition is doing and reinvent themselves and their product by offering what it is the customer is looking for now in 2012, instead of trying to continue with their 1990's business model.
 
9/11 was over 10 years ago...sounds like they couldn't adapt if they're still struggling and if their website is shit.

Visualizing data and brainstorming? Sounds like mind mapping.
 
Fatbat said:
That's a bit harsh man. If there wasn't such a massive market out there for these kind of applications and services, with tons of earning potential, there wouldn't be so many companies making them. Many have free starter accounts and that sort of thing, but most offer paid packages for more features/capacity.

If this company has as much experience and reputation as the OP is leading us to believe, it sounds like they need to analyse what the competition is doing and reinvent themselves and their product by offering what it is the customer is looking for now in 2012, instead of trying to continue with their 1990's business model.
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Well, "reinvent yourself", "change your business model", same thing. The OP is asking us how to best pitch what sounds like an outdated product (maybe I'm wrong). My advice is you simply don't. Instead of spending the marketing resources, go back to the development stage, and revamp your business as needed. Then invest the marketing resources once you have a product the market wants.

They used to pull in $50k/month, so obviously have some useful skills. They're hanging on at $3k/month though, which is absolutely nothing, and hoping a marketing campaign will fix everything is probably the wrong way to go. Then again, we don't even know what the product is, so who knows.
 
FUCK. The infamous 'WF logs your bitch ass out and doesn't let you know until you submit your fucking LONG reply' strikes again. God-fucking-damnit. Sit tight guys, I have to try and remember what the fuck I just wrote out and do it again.
 
"They sell a physical product via internet/phone orders. The product is something that would be used more or less by people brainstorming on projects, building out ideas, things like that."

Sounds like the product pushes "ideas." Ideas mean shit.

Help them Rebrand the product to "Execution Thinking!"

People/companies need effing mass help with execution.
 
I just wrote out a REALLY detailed reply and lost it so I'm going to be a little more random here

The product is a simple idea. Nothing revolutionary, but likely useful to the right niche. The owner developed it for his own use back in the day and ended up selling it, expanding, blah blah blah.

His business didn't die out after 9/11, it -began- to die out. It has slowly been reduced to what it is today.

The owner(s) (family owned) are die-hard about the product, but that doesn't mean there is a market for it in this day and age, considering all of the digital shit out there.

They contacted me on a referral asking if I could re-vamp their website. One thing led to another and now I'm trying to see if there is actually anything I can do for them, as a simple website just isn't going to fucking cut it.

Think of the company as one that was doing quite well back in 1997, and then just got frozen in time. I mean seriously. Their brochures, pamphlets, website, all of it has literally not been updated since the late 90's.

Now I've already got two pages of preliminary ideas that I think -could- help them (nothing is guaranteed in life), but my big issue is: I don't know if there is a market for what they sell.

So this is where you guys come in. I know some of you either are or have once been into mapping out ideas/niches/demographics/markets/links/wtfever is numerous different ways. So I'm hoping to see what you guys have to say about the premise of their product, and whether or not you'd find it of any use or simply too outdated.

I don't mention the product on here because this shit is indexed, and I have an innate fear of clients finding my forum profiles. Probably wouldn't look too good.

As for the operations of the business: yes, they should have tackled this issue YEARS ago. They mean well, but they have no-fucking-clue what they are doing when it comes to marketing. Their branding is shit and non-consistent, their method of explaining their product is like reading a fucking technical manual for a nuclear reactor from Soviet Russia, they have a 14 year old domain with practically no back links, and more.

But I've been running it all through my head the last couple of days and I may actually try to help them, if not for the connections/referrals I can get out of it, and the revshare I can likely snag.

If any of you guys that are real members (a regular, not a 30 post newb) shoot me a PM I'd be more than glad to show you what the fuck I'm talking about. I just want to avoid indexing.
 
ericchristopher said:
"They sell a physical product via internet/phone orders. The product is something that would be used more or less by people brainstorming on projects, building out ideas, things like that."

Sounds like the product pushes "ideas." Ideas mean shit.

Help them Rebrand the product to "Execution Thinking!"

People/companies need effing mass help with execution.
Click to expand...

While I'm sure I can deduce what you mean by this, would you mind expanding a little bit?

I'm versed in smaller businesses and local offline shit, social/seo/ppc/mobile/aff/content, and all the other typical shit, but when it comes to what I like to think of as corporate backroom brainstorming, my eyes glaze over. Just the phrase 'Execution Thinking' gave me a slight aneurism.
 
LMSInc. said:
While I'm sure I can deduce what you mean by this, would you mind expanding a little bit?

I'm versed in smaller businesses and local offline shit, social/seo/ppc/mobile/aff/content, and all the other typical shit, but when it comes to what I like to think of as corporate backroom brainstorming, my eyes glaze over. Just the phrase 'Execution Thinking' gave me a slight aneurism.
Click to expand...

You said this:

"The product is something that would be used more or less by people brainstorming on projects, building out ideas, things like that."

Can it be retweaked AND marketed to do this:

"The product is something that would be used more or less by people iplementing projects, building out ideas, things like that."

One word was changed.

Implementation replaced brainstorming.

Businesses/people/everybody on WF/you/me all need assistance with implementation/execution. We don't necessarily need more ideas.

We need to refine ideas and refine execution.

Mike Geary (truthaboutabs) has done something similar with a couple nutritional/exercise ebooks to the tune of insane money.

The product you're dealing with is obviously of value. It did once sell.

The question is can the execution that is reaching out to business owners be improved. And can it be tweaked to help them execute rather than think up new ideas.
 
We don't have enough information to give you any decent advice.

I know you are telling us a lot about the company, but this problem is very specific to the product.

Regurgitating from above, it sounds like it's an antiquated product, otherwise it would not have started declining in users over the last 10 years.


It sounds like they need to redevelop the product AND the image to compete. Good collaboration software I know of is liveplan.com
It's awesome business planning software and the company works with Business Incubators all over the country
 
You know what solves a lot of problems?

Competition analysis.

If you don't know what to do, someone else probably does.

Figure out the niche, and how it works, then see if this client can still find a place in it, maybe at the high end or by reworking the product.

Their situation is a lot less important than where the market is at, and their willingness to move towards it.

hth
 
The problem with most businesses that have long been established like decades ago do not adapt to changes. They think that the usual business model they used that led them to earn thousands of dollars when they first started will still bring them the cash when in fact it does not.

Most of these businesses have been defeated by new comers who bring in innovation to an old idea, product, or service. Have you ever wondered how Microsoft stay on business even after decades? They innovate, and bring in new products to the public. Perhaps, let your client innovate their current product or bring in something new to the market.
 
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