Fired @ Christmas -- Please Advise

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supermike

supermike

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Oct 18, 2006
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This is about affiliate marketing. It's Christmas and of all unfortunate surprises I just got let go from my employer where I was making $63K. I was a Linux sysop but my forte is really in web development with lots and lots of users, especially with PHP and a variety of databases. Before 9/11, I was earning $120K as a VS.Net consultant but I had to ride around all over the country and I had to use Microsoft products -- blech. Before that gig I had near 9/11, I had moved up the salary chain to about $80K. So I think my worth is about $80K right now in a regular day job. But I am at the age and experience now where I don't want one.

The reason I was let go was because of bad friction between an inexperienced new supervisor I had been assigned, and my large Linux sysop and web dev experience. I was becoming alarmed and baffled by the technical decisions of my new supervisor, expressed my concern as politely as I could, and then it snowballed to where I just would say no. I was getting tired of being under constant deadlines and busy work that never let up, tons of overtime with no extra pay, and no acknowledgment of my efforts. My supervisor also failed to understand the levity of some problems, or the importance of attention to detail, and in meeting deadlines on earlier assignments rather than pushing them aside for the latest deadline. So, all and all, I decided not to acknowledge a written warning and issued them a resignation instead. But we all know what happened -- I was the senior guy with the knowledge and the new supervisor didn't want to feel stupid, so she forced me out the company.

So now I'm in debt trouble and seeking your advice. At 40 years old, married with children, a working spouse (earning $55K), I've got the debt of a $240K house and two SUVs, and about $15K in credit card debt. My retirement money was dwindled during a previous emergency I had had with my house and I ended up now only having about $10K in pathetic retirement savings. I've worked at enough companies now that I've decided that I'm not getting anywhere against my debt problem by giving half my salary away to no-nothings in companies. I have too much of an entrepreneurial spirit and feel that I need to be the master of my own destiny, not someone else. I had one startup for about 4 months that did well ($40K), but I folded that when a friend offered me a reliable $75K job. I then formed another moonlight startup, and this time with a Linux-based web app, but so far it doesn't have purchasers, just downloaders.

This has led me to think long and hard about speculating by taking some of my borrowing power against my IRA and my house, doing a bunch of affiliate marketing sites (forums and ad revenue on popular topics + e books) and then playing the stock and bond market very gingerly and with good diversification. To hedge my bets, I also was going to offer my services by doing websites, web marketing, and ecommerce. I've dabbled just enough in this to think I know what I'm doing, but will continue to learn rapidly because, if I'm asking questions here, I have a lot still to learn.

My questions to you are:

* Should I even try affiliate marketing in this condition?

* Can I honestly earn $60K in a year with this stuff?

* If so, at what kind of intensity am I going to have to do this -- host my own servers, build web farms, hire employees, etc.?

* If so, what kind of capital will I need to lay down initially?

* About how long does it take before my first $2000 comes in?

* Do you mix daytrading with affiliate marketing tasks in your day? What's that like?

* Do you recommend I get a part-time job to help out with the cash flow for now? Or, will that eat too much into my time when I could be building things that generate income?

* Do you recommend I get a full-time job again, then do affiliate marketing at night?


Unbelievably DESPERATE in South Carolina,

Mike
Volo

P.S. I can't move away in order to solve this problem like I could do in the past. First, my wife is at the pinnacle of her career and doesn't want to move on account of me. Second, my children are doing so well in school that a scholarship looks obvious, and I cannot disturb that momentum. Third, I built a mansion during the dotcom boom and then suffered $20K in damage when the back of the foundation settled by 1 to 2 inches -- to sell would mean I'd have to take a huge financial loss. I still haven't come up with the $20K to fix it, so we leave it alone for now.
 


You've got a wife and kids to support, get a day job first and then think about something else later. Oh yeah, and put your wifes CC's in the blender.
 
With wife and kids to support, I'd suggest sticking with a day job and working the affiliate stuff until you build up enough reserves and experience to make affiliate stuff work full time.

You mentioned previous .NET experience, is that something you could pick up again? Demand is high for good .NET developers, and I think you could definitely make $75k-$90k at a mellow 8-5 kind of place.
 
Insomniac said:
You've got a wife and kids to support, get a day job first and then think about something else later. Oh yeah, and put your wifes CC's in the blender.
Click to expand...

I agree. You have people who depend on you and no cushion to sit on. AM can be a cruel mistress when you are first starting out.

Start up costs are extremely low, try doing AM (and other web ventures) on the side. If the money starts coming in, then you can quit.
 
Mike I agree with the others in the thread here and tried to send you a PM. Take the opportunity here at the board. Learn, network and take care of your family if your wife's income will not fully support your family.

Paul
 
Mike, I'm in a similar situation, though I have a day job. With my wife's income, my day job barely covers my monthly expenses. Your kids and your wife need you to indulge in the _security_ of a day job. With no reserves (speaking from experience), AM is extremely tough.

IMHO,yes you can make a buck at this, but it'll be at least 6 months before you see any return on investment. Without reserves, you'll need to pull long days until you see a return, which could take longer than 6 months because you'll _have_ to divide your attention.

Short term game: day job.
Long term game: AM to pay up reserves, pay down debt, fix foundation.
 
I'm going to agree with them however i would say: see if you can get a good partime job, surely with your skill set you could get a good hourly pay vs salaried. I would assume your wife can carry the insurance, yes? That way with part time you could devote extra time to AM. And yes count on it taking at least 6 months. But if this is what you really want to do you can do it.
 
It sounds like you have a lot of experience. Look up some local headhunting agencies who will promote you. You will get offers that pay more than if you were to go it alone. Most times you will be hired on a contract basis, so if the job doesnt work out after the contract expires your agent will know this and will have new offers ready for you.
There are lots of industries that need experienced IT people that you would never think of. A good placement agency will help you get the exposure (and pay check) you need.
 
Rockpile has a good point about recruiters. They can usually hook you up with jobs you otherwise might have missed or not seen in your search. Be weary though, some recruiters will just try to throw you at every job poisition they have open and hope that happen to stick. Some employers are hesitant to work with recruiters because there is a large up-front fee they have to pay if they hire you. That fee can be 20-30% of your yearly salary. The good side of that is that the recruiters really have a drive to make you the most $$$ possible.
 
Fuckin crazy. You must be related to me dude.

A little over a year ago today. Divorced with 2 sons, forced out of my fulltime job, luckily I had already doubled my fulltime and parttime jobs monthly income. So I headed online fulltime. I have had my share of ups and downs for over a year now, but I have increased my overall income every month. Unfortunately, I work or I am at least on the computer 80+ hours a week. I love my job though.

I am also a daytrader man. Yea I understand how hard it is to keep up with the research and the sweat that starts to roll down the face on that upward climb. "Do I hang on longer, or get out now". Yep been there. I have sustained only 2 nerve racking losses all year. The other losses were not too bad, but I have a few great gains. I always take my money and reinvest into the next stock and then put the rest of it in my high interest savings accounts. I can honestly say that trying to work online and turning my head to my other monitors a *stretch day* is a very emotional and often stressful time. If you have done it then you know what I am talking about, if you haven't I would suggest extensive reading and researching. It's quite cutthroat nowadays.

I'm not no financial advisor so I will tell you what I did. I came out of a little over $73,000 in debt, bought two vehicles and erased my house payments in less than 14 months fulltime online. The single most important thing for me was paying off that high interest debt.

When you pay those cards off, you basically got 3 choices.

1. Pay off the high interest one - Often painstaking for awhile, but a great relief.
2. Pay off the low balance one - moral boost
3. Can't afford either and continue to pay the minimum.

You seem like a really smart dude. I can tell you know more about this stuff than I did when I started. You could probably look for a day job man half the day (but spending it looking and applying and not driving around) and then come home and really apply yourself to the forums and free lance sites out there.

Just by looking at your grammar and writing style you could make some extra money just by ghostwriting. Yes, I know it's not glorious, but it was my first successful job online and I was paying over half my bills a month just by writing my ass off EVERY night 4-5 hours. It's boring and it sucks dude, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

You have stated what your wife makes and your debt, but not your payments. You should probably sit down and figure everything out even with a cushion behind (if possible) and then go from there. The questions you ask of how long it takes to get to 2K are very generic and will lead a lot people to believe that your best bet is to get a job and settle these finances and educate yourself.

Like I said, I am merely trying to relate. My debt was nowhere near yours but all the same I managed to get myself thru it, and hoping you do the same.

Take Care,
Ruck
 
The safe route is always the "smart" way to go, however you seem to have a solid head on your shoulders. With the discipline, drive, and focus, there is a wealth of information (here) and opportunity that you can make it in this space. I would strongly consider a hybrid setup where you have a part-time to cover basic needs, and the rest of your time really go for it trying, learning, and experiencing affiliate marketing. I'm sure you'll make it.

GL,
Bobby
 
Don't feel desperate, this could be the very best thing that ever happened to you. I know this is going to sound cheesy, but you need to look at ways to reduce your expenses. I won't make stupid suggestions, because you know your situation well enough to know what you can cut back on.

If you are going to make a go of it, you might want to sit down with the family and explain what you are doing. You need their support to find success. You've got to believe that success has been laid at your feet today. You can pick it up and relish it, with all the fears that you have today. You can do what it takes to maximize your success. It won't be easy, but success never is. Don't let fear stand in the way of your success.

Believe it, my friend. These kind of things are not disasters, they are opportunities.
 
You all are like family. Thanks so much for your opinions. I'll give you an update in a few days.
 
man, thats a hard part.. I was in a situation like yours ( minus it was Christmas time ) and was let go by a major corporation for almost the same reason.

the best bet was to get a full time gig again and keep working after hours freelance in web design AND working on my own affiliate and contextual sites I own too. It was a bitch at first trying to do it all:

1. Day Job
2. Freelance Web Design and Programing For Clients
3. Building up my own network if sites for affiliate and contextual revenue.

It paid off though, but I could not have done it without my day job security at first.. just my experience.
 
I've resigned from the day job. You see, I had an unblemished 6 year record with the company. Not a single written warning on file. My performance numbers were high. But then to take a written warning and probation meant, to quote the HR lady, "If you even look cross-eyed at your manager, you're terminated immediately" -- I would be on eggshells, not really knowing my end date. Then, I'd have an involuntary termination on my record for another employer to hear that, and I'd have no time to find another job. They told me while I was on probation that they would even record keystrokes, watch my screen live, watch me on camera -- all kinds of things. And why? Because my position was "keeper of the golden keys" -- I had all the passwords to everything since I was the senior sysop. At least with the resignation, my record remains unblemished, I don't have to walk on eggshells and ridiculous demands, and I get 30 days + 2 weeks of vacation.

My wife is on her way back from her seminar trip and I had to tell the news. She was quite shocked at first, but now considers this a blessing. Over the years I've had several short-term contracts come to me by email for PHP work and I haven't been able to jump at them. Perhaps now I can make that happen. So, she says she's motivated for me to make a go of Volo in many more ways than just sitting down, waiting on downloaders to decided they want to pay for something. She wants me working with anyone I can on commission. If they bring in leads and sell what Volo can offer, then I build it, collect the payment, and pay out the commission. As for what rate, I won't lock anything down until I get a chance to discuss the deal and other factors. Since I'm the absolute worst salesman on the planet, the commission will be very favorable because salespeople do miracles.

Both my father and sister in law are working from home. The father-in-law does rental of trailer homes and built himself up from nothing, starting with foreclosures. Now he says he has a lot of free time and the income is steady, but not as high as he wants. He wants something more. I also have a talkative, amazing little sister-in-law, Rebecca, who convinced a politician in town to give her a regular paycheck to run errands for him and be his campaign manager. He's a business owner. However, he doesn't use her all the time and she has a lot of free time. They both want to help me, but especially George, my father-in-law. George said, "Let's start a business together." I said, "I already have the LLC." So we're going to talk again today.

I hope this could be a blessing in disguise. Pray for me. If you don't believe in God, then consider crossing your fingers.

Anyway, let me tell you about the departure. Two morons I worked with are in their twenties and they thought they were hot stuff even though I taught them everything they know. They're going to get the blunt end of all this work and it's going to be painful. I used to share a 3-person on-call duty with them, carrying a pager and a cellphone. Now it's just going to be those two dopes. Then, my supervisor and her supervisor will be left holding the bag. All of them think the stuff I ran and did in a day were easy, but they were not, and the fit will hit the shan starting tomorrow when Fedex Corp signs on and starts sending transactions their way. Little do they know that our database servers have CPUs running at 98% right now. Woops! So, anyway, my supervisor was so angry because I think she was thinking I wouldn't call her bluff and would just take the warning and move on -- she refused to talk to me on the exit. Instead, my former supervisor (now her supervisor) was the one who was most appreciative and very nice on my exit. He said he wanted to help me exit with dignity because I deserved it. However, the funny thing is that he has like no clue what he has done here, and oh will he find out soon! Now here's where it gets even more interesting. My resignation letter was crafted such that I thanked a bunch of people, laid out all my major accomplishments, and talked about being overworked to the point where the only way to fix the problem was to leave. Now, when the systems start failing either tomorrow or in the coming weeks, the supervisor three levels up will have a cow and ask to see my resignation letter. When he sees it, I may very well end up with a phonecall to come back, or at least to be a contractor. Being a contractor back to this firm is exactly what I'd love to do. Sure, screw me over for years, now you have a problem you can't handle, pay me $120 an hour. Muwahahaha.

So, no more day job for me. It's volosystems.com (Volo) -- Affiliate Marketing, Web Apps (PHP), Web Sites, eCommerce, short-term contracts, anything that floats. Goal? Well, I was earning $5K a month (taking home $3K) with the slave-driver day job. That's my goal. And my second goal is to conquer my debt/income ratio so that I can live off $1K a month every once in awhile.

So that's the abstract stuff. I'll have something more concrete later, like actual specific questions about getting started after I read up on it on the web and in forum posts here.
 
Congrats on the exit, often times moving on is a blessing in disguise. In addition to the support from your famlily which is important, you have the support of the members here through their experiences and insight into affiliate marketing.

gl again.
 
Congrats on the move and the decision. If your monthly nut was covered by $5k gross per month you'll be able to survive fine doing the AM/freelance stuff.

Good luck!
 
Try not to go into business with family or friends; work issues stray into the family arena, and vice versa.

Now is your chance to the The Boss, instead of 'the partner' or 'the employee'.
 
sorry about your troubles, hope it all works out.

One thing though, you should have let them fire you. Not only is it pointless to resign (because a future employer will ask your former anyway and even though you resigned it'll be obvious you were pushed), you left good money on the table, the tax you pay covers this and your employer would have to cough up too.

Would also have given you some income to get rolling.
 
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