Eustachian Tube Dysfunction

[mikeshinobi]

Since we've all been posting our health issues lately, I'm gonna jump in the fray and ask about something I've been dealing with for around two years (could be more, I've lost track).

Ear barotrauma - PubMed Health

Have any of you dealt with this, and more importantly, gotten rid of it? Or does anyone at least know someone who has? From reading things elsewhere on the internet, my outlook seems pretty dire, but I figure it can't hurt to ask.

I know, the symptoms don't look very bad, but it's given me severe feelings of derealization which has subsequently lead me into bouts of depression. Originally I was just going to ask you guys about dealing with derealization, but I realize that if I can't get rid of my ETD, I'll never be able to conquer the derealization.

 

[iamjon]

I don't have any experience with exactly what you're dealing with but I've done a fair amount of freediving/spearfishing and equalisation is quite a big factor in this.

I don't know exactly what the mechanisms are with equalisation but I know people who have had major problems equalising in the past who, with practise and exercise, have improved the flexibility or width of their Eustachian tubes (I'm not exactly sure what happens on a physiological level) so that they could equalise.

I don't know what your doctors recommend, but there are certainly exercises that you can do to help, from a freediving perspective at least.

Here's something from Wiki:

Voluntary opening of the eustachian tubes: Voluntary opening of the tubes: Voluntary Tubal OpeningFrench: béance tubaire volontaire (BTV) ) is a method of equalising or clearing the ears described by doctor Georges Delonca and used in scuba diving and freediving. It aims to rebalance the pressure between the external ear and middle ear. The subject must either exercise a voluntary control of the tensor veli palatini muscles opening the eustachian tubes, or move the jaw to open the tubes when necessary. This is less easy to execute than the Valsalva maneuver, but the BTV is the gentlest method to clear the ears[10]. However, not all divers can perform this manoeuvre. It may be necessary to engage in ear training exercises to train the muscles to perform this manoeuvre. Another description of the method is to tense the muscles of the soft palate and the throat while pushing the jaw forward and down as if starting to yawn. This should pull the eustachian tubes open.

The thing with BVT is that there is no risk to further trauma (I don't think so anyway) as you're not trying to equalise by forcing in pressure as you would be with the Valsalva method, so it might be better for you.

I've not met many other people who can do BVT, but there are definitely exercises out there that can help. If you can wiggle your ears, then apparently, you have a better chance of being able to do it.

I don't know how much truth there is in it, but many freedivers also avoid all dairy products before diving because of a theory about the production of mucus and the fact that it can intefer with equalisation so I don't know if this is something you've heard of before?

This a bit of a shot in the dark anyway because I don't know how relevant any of this will be to you, or if you might have come across this info before, but I thought I'd share with you anyway as it doesn't sound like you're in a good place at the moment.

 

[IceToEskimos]

I've been doing a lot of research into derealization lately, as it's something I've been dealing with on a nearly daily basis for the last 10 years or so.

The ears have a lot to do with it as far as I can tell, specifically the information passed from your ears regarding the position of your head relative to your body in space.

My personal experience with derealization/depersonalization seems to be related to the oxygen level in my blood somehow. I've checked my O2 level with a pulse oximeter when I'm feeling "unreal" and I'm consistently 2-3% lower than my average, but I don't really know why or what that means.

I'd recommend looking into the types of exercises that are used to help people with Ménière's disease, and BPPV (benign paroxysmal positional vertigo). The Brandt-Daroff exercise seems to help people orient themselves properly in space, and I have a feeling that your derealization could be helped this way.

 

[mikeshinobi]

I don't have any experience with exactly what you're dealing with but I've done a fair amount of freediving/spearfishing and equalisation is quite a big factor in this.

I don't know exactly what the mechanisms are with equalisation but I know people who have had major problems equalising in the past who, with practise and exercise, have improved the flexibility or width of their Eustachian tubes (I'm not exactly sure what happens on a physiological level) so that they could equalise.

I don't know what your doctors recommend, but there are certainly exercises that you can do to help, from a freediving perspective at least.

Here's something from Wiki:



The thing with BVT is that there is no risk to further trauma (I don't think so anyway) as you're not trying to equalise by forcing in pressure as you would be with the Valsalva method, so it might be better for you.

I've not met many other people who can do BVT, but there are definitely exercises out there that can help. If you can wiggle your ears, then apparently, you have a better chance of being able to do it.

I don't know how much truth there is in it, but many freedivers also avoid all dairy products before diving because of a theory about the production of mucus and the fact that it can intefer with equalisation so I don't know if this is something you've heard of before?

This a bit of a shot in the dark anyway because I don't know how relevant any of this will be to you, or if you might have come across this info before, but I thought I'd share with you anyway as it doesn't sound like you're in a good place at the moment.

I've been doing a lot of research into derealization lately, as it's something I've been dealing with on a nearly daily basis for the last 10 years or so.

The ears have a lot to do with it as far as I can tell, specifically the information passed from your ears regarding the position of your head relative to your body in space.

My personal experience with derealization/depersonalization seems to be related to the oxygen level in my blood somehow. I've checked my O2 level with a pulse oximeter when I'm feeling "unreal" and I'm consistently 2-3% lower than my average, but I don't really know why or what that means.

I'd recommend looking into the types of exercises that are used to help people with Ménière's disease, and BPPV (benign paroxysmal positional vertigo). The Brandt-Daroff exercise seems to help people orient themselves properly in space, and I have a feeling that your derealization could be helped this way.

Thanks guys. I'll try both of these things. The BVT sounds especially intriguing... perhaps if I can budge my tubes open, they will stay open. I'm not sure what causes them to remain closed but I've always imagined them being glued together by mucus or something.

 

[IceToEskimos]

I've always imagined them being glued together by mucus or something.

I've always imagined your tubes being glued together with semen, but maybe you are right.

 

[-joe-]

Why go to a doctor, when you can let a bunch of internet marketers diagnose & treat you?

 

[mikeshinobi]

Why go to a doctor, when you can let a bunch of internet marketers diagnose & treat you?

I already did; he gave me a bottle of nasal spray, charged me $200 and sent me on my way.

I'd go again, but I've read plenty of things about people who've gone to doctors 10+ times to no avail, and it seems impossible to find anything anecdotal that's along the lines of "I had ETD, but I did THIS, and now I'm better!" That's what makes me think it's incurable, but like I said I figured it couldn't hurt to ask.

 

[IceToEskimos]

Why go to a doctor, when you can let a bunch of internet marketers diagnose & treat you?

You know what?

I happen to own hundreds of MFA sites devoted to obscure medical conditions that are filled with the finest ESL content money can buy for less than $1/100 words, and I take offense to your insinuation that I don't know what I'm not talking about.

I'm also an expert on "how do trains work", if anyone is wondering.

 

[elucidex]

I've had some dealings with this and just want to remind you guys that what you think is the problem, very well may not be even close, no matter how sure you may be. The internet can be a great place to get info but is filled with more crap from idiots then anything. I couldn't agree more that a lot of DRs suck, but IMO it's worth continuing to work with them, just fine one that's willing to put the effort in.

I saw my primary about derealization like symptoms, and after he sent me to a bunch of specialist, turns out it may be something with my heart.. I wouldn't have ever guessed. I also was set on it being a Eustachian tube problem initially.

 

[elucidex]

Also, if you guys haven't, you should really consider seeing a neurologist. And lastly.. get a juicer. I'm sure you read the thread here, that shit does help.

 

[SethH]

If the problem really is your eustachian tubes, there's a minor-moderate surgery that fixes it. They basically put straws into the tubes to prevent them from getting blocked. I know one guy who had it and said it was life changing. I looked into it briefly when I got struck down by a series of bad ear infections, but I recovered before I got too far into the process.

 

[mikeshinobi]

If the problem really is your eustachian tubes, there's a minor-moderate surgery that fixes it. They basically put straws into the tubes to prevent them from getting blocked. I know one guy who had it and said it was life changing. I looked into it briefly when I got struck down by a series of bad ear infections, but I recovered before I got too far into the process.

I read about this a while ago but it seemed to be one of those "this is a wacky idea/experimental thing" but now from what I'm seeing it's more accepted as an actual cure. Fascinating.

One thing I just read though is that when they perform the surgery they actually perform an ESS while they do it (Endoscopic Sinus Surgery) and I've noticed that along with my ETD I have bad symptoms of chronic sinusitis... postnasal drip all day every day. I love swallowing mucus!

Anyways, I just read yet another thing over on pubmed that says that a large amount of chronic sinusitis sufferers reported an improvement in ETD-like symptoms after having ESS... so now obviously I'm quite intrigued. Unfortunately I'm poor and ESS is very expensive. Oh well; just another thing to motivate me towards being successful!

Thanks for the hope regardless; it's nice to know there's at least an actual possibility for getting better out there.

 

[elucidex]

OP have you tried doing a nasal wash on a regular basis? Cheap, and can be very effective.

 

[mikeshinobi]

OP have you tried doing a nasal wash on a regular basis? Cheap, and can be very effective.

Well... yes and no. I mean, I've done it a lot, especially when my sinusitis (undiagnosed) really flares up, but I've never really done it as a sort of daily ritual thing like a shower or something. But now that you mention it, if I do it daily, maybe it'll eventually take care of my sinusitis (or take it down to a more bearable level, at least) which would in turn take my ETD down? Maybe?!

It's worth a shot. Brb doing this:

 

[dsiomtw]

I don't have any type of derealization or anything like that, but I do have massive nasal congestion and eustachian tube problems due to a deviated septem, major allergies and chronic sinusitis.

I've done the neti pot thing a lot, but for me the results only last for an hour or two so I stopped doing it. Basically I can only breathe out of one side of my nose at least 50% of the time. Allergy medicines and steroid nasal sprays don't do jack shit, so I've been doing allergy shots for the past year. Things are a little better but not much. If the shots don't help in the next 1-2 years I'll definitely be getting a septoplasty, an ESS and any other surgery they can do to try to help me out. It sucks! (as you know)

When my left eustachian tube gets completely blocked the only thing that works is taking a few ibuprofen and shooting up afrin. If you look at the ground and spray the afrin up, it sprays directly where your eustachian tube opens, and that helps a lot!

I know one guy who actually pours a bottle of afrin into a neti pot with water and irrigates with that. I haven't tried it yet, but he said it's incredible ... while it lasts lol

 

[mikeshinobi]

I know one guy who actually pours a bottle of afrin into a neti pot with water and irrigates with that. I haven't tried it yet, but he said it's incredible ... while it lasts lol

Yeah I've actually tried that several times, but with 4 way instead of afrin (same thing I'm guessing). There's a guide somewhere on the internet that claims this is the cure for ETD (it used to be free, but I remember looking for it again a while back and seeing they turned it into some stupid $5 ebook... fuckers). Anyways, needless to say it didn't actually work, although I didn't have the balls to do some of the shit they said to do like doing the Valsalva manuver with the water in your sinuses to blow water in your ears. Seemed fucking insane.

Don't get me wrong; it helps you breathe great! And when you're really congested, 4 way is like a damn miracle. The "withdrawal" sucks though.

 

[SethH]

I read about this a while ago but it seemed to be one of those "this is a wacky idea/experimental thing" but now from what I'm seeing it's more accepted as an actual cure. Fascinating.

One thing I just read though is that when they perform the surgery they actually perform an ESS while they do it (Endoscopic Sinus Surgery) and I've noticed that along with my ETD I have bad symptoms of chronic sinusitis... postnasal drip all day every day. I love swallowing mucus!

Anyways, I just read yet another thing over on pubmed that says that a large amount of chronic sinusitis sufferers reported an improvement in ETD-like symptoms after having ESS... so now obviously I'm quite intrigued. Unfortunately I'm poor and ESS is very expensive. Oh well; just another thing to motivate me towards being successful!

Thanks for the hope regardless; it's nice to know there's at least an actual possibility for getting better out there.

My doctor seemed to consider it pretty standard, from the way he talked about it, although I didn't get into too many details. It scared me enough to actually focus on not doing stupid things like passing out drunk outside in the rain, and sure enough, the cycle of sinus infection, ear infection, tinitus, pneumonia stopped. One other thing you may want to consider depending on just how much this is bothering you, humidity seems to play a major factor in it. A few weeks in the desert might help more than you'd think.

If you want some more general advice though - stop reading medical blogs and forums, filled with posts by hypochondriac shut ins, and are run by people like us using scare tactics to ad clicks and boost sales. Spend enough time reading medical sites, you'll be able to self diagnose yourself with any disease you want

 

[erect]

I've not met many other people who can do BVT, but there are definitely exercises out there that can help. If you can wiggle your ears, then apparently, you have a better chance of being able to do

Yeah, so I didn't realize I was that special. I can also scratch the tip of my nose with my upper lip ... anything?

so the best advice I can give /how to/ use this muscle to "un-pop" your ears is that it you should attempt to shit your eyeballs out your ear canal. Obviously, this isn't going to work as well as you're picturing in your mind right now but right when you think you're done, there is this rumbling sound that you'll hear on your forehead. That's the muscle that unlocks the pressure.

Now that you know which muscle to use push your cheek muscles around the jaw backwards (not the jaw itself) while trying to make that grumble again and bob's your uncle.

It's like gleeking, somewhere around there is the spot you're looking for. I can do it on demand now, but it never gets strong like you think your arm would be. Kind of like flexing an erection, it's strong and shinny for a few seconds then the muscle tires and un-flexes ... only to be repeated over and over on demand.

 

[mikeshinobi]

Well bummer, after reading that ^ I'm starting to think I already can do the BVT and have been doing it for a long time.

voluntary tubal opening is discribed as Tensing the muscles of the soft palate and the throat while pushing the jaw forward and down as if starting to yawn

I don't exactly know what tensing the soft palate would feel like, but I definitely do the "moving the jaw down as if yawning" part. I can even do it without moving my jaw at all... I don't even know what the fuck I'm doing but some muscles inside my head move and it causes some commotion inside my head that sounds like my ears are popping, but it achieves nothing. I get a similar sounding "pop" every time I swallow. I can't even remember if your ears are even supposed to pop every time you swallow...

I remember I used to be able to do this whenever I was coming off of a bad cold which had caused my ears to be plugged - I'd sit there in class doing it over and over and if I did it enough it'd eventually "break through" or something. The popping would become more "full" and eventually my ears would actually pop so that I could hear normally again.

 

[thehobbster]

I did the whole "too much acid led to drug induced anxiety which didn't help my existential angst which ultimately resulted in derealization/depersonalization". Shit wasn't fun, but damn did I learn a lot. Worst/Best 4 years of my life. I attribute much of my personal success and growth to that period of time.