Ethics And Values...My Rant On The Industries Current Direction...

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RightHandMan

Investment Opportunity!
Jul 5, 2006
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Im going to bang on my own drum in this post. Please press back on your browser if your going to be negative in this thread. (Hint: Expressing an opinion that disagrees with my following statements do NOT equal Negativity)

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Allright. Lately as Ive been searching for things on various topics, I see a common trend developing. Its a scary trend that I believe will seriously hinder the ability to make money the way we do. Let me correct that, THE WAY WE ARE SUPPOSED TO.

I am personally noticing an insane increase in "Made for Adsense" websites, or pages specifically made for their respective PPC advertiser. These pages hog the top spots on all SERPs and have little to no actual relative info on their keywords. The content on the page is the ads.

While these "made for" pages are probably making boatloads of money RIGHT NOW, whats going to happen when all the surfers become educated, or the SE's become smarter? Its going to knock out about 75% of "webmasters" currently in the industry, lower PPC payouts, and hit the rest of us in the wallet.

The purpose of this rant is to explain my opinion on how to make the money the right way. Create REAL webpages. Come up with ideas original or spinoffs and create around them. Make people bookmark your site, and have them return. This buisness of 100 sites is better than 5 is completely false in my book.

Take all the content you have spread across those 100 sites and put them into the 5. The traffic you get across those 100 sites equates to a surfer landing on your page, reading the one or two sentences about the subject, clicking an add to find the real information and never coming back. Sure you make your cents per click, and your happy that once, but that surfer realizes there is nothing of value on your page, and wont come back. If you took all that content and put it onto 5 sites, that Same surfer lands on your bigger more quality site, reads some useful inforation or likes the service, then clicks on an add looking for more info. GUESS WHAT...that same surfer comes back tomorrow because they want to read/learn more, and they just might click on another ad!

Theres more ways to making money other than PPC pages. Affiliate programs and product sales. A quality site is going to have 10 fold more affiliate sales than 100 short content sites. Once you get a surfer to stay, they start to read and explore..Hang out if you will.

I realize many of you here practice content rich, quality sites. But theres still those that dont. And every new webmaster coming here thats going to try to make a buck isnt going to follow the same set of rules. EVERYONE wants to make the quick buck. The quick buck is the made for adsense pages. The REAL money is in the content rich, and quality sites that keep people for hours.

Keep people onboard for hours, not seconds.

Think of it this way: In the sites you develop, for every one person you can keep browsing your site for 60 minutes or more. That $100 bucks youll make.

If you shoot for that goal, youll be happy people.

Thanks for reading.
 


I totally agree with you. I think you said it all in your post - the SEs will get smarter, and the gravy train will end for people that are unable to create real content. Internet marketing, like any industry, will become saturated and more competitive. At this time, the cream (which hopefully will include my noob ass by then) will rise to the top.
 
While I agree with your main point, there are lots of details which you left uncovered. It's ok if you're talking about people who think adsense will last forever and there's no need to change, but what about the people that are aware of it just being a trend and choosing to ride it ?

You can walk down the conventional path and slowly build a site, but at that same time, somebody else is going to build 50 sites, cash in on them and move on to the next hot thing. Today it's adsense, tomorrow it won't be, but there will always be hot new things and people on the frontier, riding them.
 
MisterX said:
While I agree with your main point, there are lots of details which you left uncovered. It's ok if you're talking about people who think adsense will last forever and there's no need to change, but what about the people that are aware of it just being a trend and choosing to ride it ?

You can walk down the conventional path and slowly build a site, but at that same time, somebody else is going to build 50 sites, cash in on them and move on to the next hot thing. Today it's adsense, tomorrow it won't be, but there will always be hot new things and people on the frontier, riding them.
Click to expand...

In the time it takes to build 100 "short" sites I can build 5 quality sites. If you put up the financial info of the 100 short sites vs the info from the 5 Quality, the 5 quality will out perform everytime, and it will last 10 times longer.

As far as trends go your right. But PPC programs like adsense do NOT have to be a trend. Adsense should be around just as long as google itself is. Adsens and PPC as we know it WILL be a trend if we treat it like one. Trends fade away. My point is to make sure that PPC as we know it is not a TREND....:eatmousepointer:
 
Why not take an advantage of it while you can? Like MySpace resource sites are very popular and are good money maker now, but I'm sure it'll die out one of these days. Then there will be other ways that you can take an advantage of whatever program that generates money.

I think the main reason people like us work hard is because we know that nothing is guaranteed and want to keep working hard to make sure we earn that money that we need.

I do understand your point, however, even quality sites will die out due to this thing called "trend".
 
Sometimes you have to go for the short term money to help invest in the long term trends.
 
RightHandMan, your title speaks of Ethics and Morals, but your post doesn't really hit on the morality issues of MFA sites. As such, your points are pretty invalid, in my opinion, because it is much easier to spam the hell out of the internet and make small amounts of money on each site than to develop a few big sites that will somehow pull in the same amount of money as all the little ones combined.

I think you don't understand how many go about these MFA sites. The content is generally VERY bad and meant to ONLY drive people away via ad clicks. Creating a large decent site would not have the same effect and would only cost more to develop, mainting, and market.

Also, while many ad companies and internet users are catching on to this whole thing, there's still an incredible amount of money to be made before enough people realize what's going on.

However, I do thing most MFA sites are pure internet filth and are a joke. The argument against them shouldn't be a monetary one, as it is a very viable business, but more of a "can you actually be proud of yourself" argument. Take, for example, the fact that 99% of the people in this forum can't give out any of their URLs. While much of this may be due to fear of competition, a lot of it is also due to the fact that most of their sites add ZERO to the internet and could likely get them banned or at least penalized by many companies out there. I also can't see how somebody could be proud of their business if all they do is make bad sites that are only meant to get people to leave them as quick as possible.

Granted, most here ONLY care about money and don't give a rats ass about how they get it, so arguing the whole "morality" of things isn't really productive. But then again, I guess I just tried a little, so I apologize for not being productive.
 
DruSam said:
Sometimes you have to go for the short term money to help invest in the long term trends.
Click to expand...

Exactly, a lot of us here need to build up our capital...easiest way is Adsense. If the business landscape does change we just adapt with it.
 
aw fuck that.

as an advertiser i LOVE advertising on MFA sites - the conversion rates are always higher, the cost is cheaper and the traffic usually comes straight from google. i make money, the MFA guy makes money and G makes money.
 
tmoney said:
aw fuck that.

as an advertiser i LOVE advertising on MFA sites - the conversion rates are always higher, the cost is cheaper and the traffic usually comes straight from google. i make money, the MFA guy makes money and G makes money.
Click to expand...

Some advertisers may love it, but many don't. But beyond the advertiser, the MFA guy, and Google, there's also a little thing called the internet user. There are so many damn worthless sites out there that add nothing to the internet that it's getting harder and harder to wade through it all. On top of that, all these MFA sites that DO NOTHING take up domains, add more ad spots to compete with more legitimate sites, and are generally run using stolen content while also utilizing black hat methods.
 
Ahh...the wonderful world of advertising. It doesn't matter if it's online or off, you are going to have those that leave ethics & values at the door when they walk in.

I guess you can compare MFA sites to something like what Sony did by paying graffiti artists to tag up major cities throughout the US to promote the PSP or their oh so racist commercial that was put out in Europe about the PSP.

Granted some thought that was unethical but dang did they get some publicity out of it.

Besides in the end a dollar from a content rich high quality site is still worth the same as a dollar made from a MFA site. :p
 
Xrproto said:
Besides in the end a dollar from a content rich high quality site is still worth the same as a dollar made from a MFA site. :p
Click to expand...

Great logic, money made from stealing money from an old woman is worth the same as both MFA money and high quality site money. I'm not saying MFA sites are anywhere near stealing - I'm just pointing out that there are MANY ways to make money, some incredibly easy. It's at what lengths most here are willing to go to make that money that I'm depressed about.
 
Squirrelinabox said:
Great logic, money made from stealing money from an old woman is worth the same as both MFA money and high quality site money. I'm not saying MFA sites are anywhere near stealing - I'm just pointing out that there are MANY ways to make money, some incredibly easy. It's at what lengths most here are willing to go to make that money that I'm depressed about.
Click to expand...
If it was click fraud or something of the sorts I would agree with you. Those are the extremes I would never go to.

As for MFA sites, it's just like taking the "sex sells" concept but turning it to "ugly sells".

I'm one that could care less if someone uses MFA sites or not. From the short time I've been in this industry I've seen more people with MFA sites that don't make squat then I have seen making bank.

However, I can see how MFA sites can irrate some people because the genreal thought is that MFA sites are easy money and it also attacts the people that want a "get rich quick" scheme. I'd put money on it that they end up failing more then succeding.

I guess we can thank all those great ebooks & sites out there pushing the "get rich quick" with adsense for attracting those people.
 
The only reason I posted this is perhaps to get some of you to realize that the moneymakers, the ones you make a living from, are the quality sites. You spend the same amount of time building 100 MFA sites as you would 5 quality purpose driven sites. The difference is the MFA sites die quickly. The 5 quality sites require less and less work as time goes on...
1 year from inception any quality purpose diriven site should require minimal "development" and should take on a life of its own. You wont have to worry about SE's or link trades. Do you think MySpace(extreme example) does any more "development"... no, they do maintainence and addons...

thats my point...
:jester:
 
well this has got to be the funniest shit i have seen.. People arguing about how to make money on the web.

I can build 100 sites in a couple of days while it would take you a week to build 1 high quality site with all original content.

I have both types of sites GH and BH. Nothing wrong with that!!! You can create both and should create both. The BH sites create immediate income while the GH sites trickle in a few dollars over time. Why not capitalize on both.

Like one of the above posters stated the traffic gained from BH sites are highly targeted and provide good income to G, the advertiser and the publisher.

As far as life span of a BH site, I have a BH site that has been up for a couple of years... has PR and does really well. It took a few minutes to make, added tokens and whammo. Still making money to this day off of it.

Now my GH sites seem to be like any other site, they make money this month, not as much the next month etc etc.. I dont use rss feeds on any of my sites, and have no stolen content. No supplemental results in either types of my sites.

But please Drop the whole WH thing, because there is no such ghost.... your sites are either GH or BH ,, theres no fukn white hat sites. Thats for fucks who try to make themselves feel better by setting their own standards and claiming a better than thou attitude.

So what is it,, your sites are GH or BH,, their MFA or made for YPN... if you started the design or content on your site and before completion you were like " hmm adsense or ypn would do well on this site" then welcome to the world of MFA/ MFY...... regardless if you have other shit on their or not,, your sites are made to make money, if they didnt make any money you wouldnt be on this forum ranting about all of your competition.
 
My approach is to keep the funnel full at all times.

Park domain names I want to work with.
Gradually take these parked domains and make some MFA templates
Gradually take these MFA sites and populate them with useful content

I think that's appropriate and I think it will yield the highest ROI. Whatchya think?

Also, when you say MFA are not around long... why is this? I read a post about using the "no follow" tag for search engines... if you don't do this for MFA/arbitrage sites are there risks associated?

PS - you shouldn't give someone negative rep just because you disagree with them. The fact that you're questioning someones morals with MFA sites and then giving someone a negative rep for disagreeing with you... actions seem to contrast eachother. Thanks for your post Mills.
 
Mill said:
well this has got to be the funniest shit i have seen.. People arguing about how to make money on the web.

I can build 100 sites in a couple of days while it would take you a week to build 1 high quality site with all original content.

I have both types of sites GH and BH. Nothing wrong with that!!! You can create both and should create both. The BH sites create immediate income while the GH sites trickle in a few dollars over time. Why not capitalize on both.

Like one of the above posters stated the traffic gained from BH sites are highly targeted and provide good income to G, the advertiser and the publisher.

As far as life span of a BH site, I have a BH site that has been up for a couple of years... has PR and does really well. It took a few minutes to make, added tokens and whammo. Still making money to this day off of it.

Now my GH sites seem to be like any other site, they make money this month, not as much the next month etc etc.. I dont use rss feeds on any of my sites, and have no stolen content. No supplemental results in either types of my sites.

But please Drop the whole WH thing, because there is no such ghost.... your sites are either GH or BH ,, theres no fukn white hat sites. Thats for fucks who try to make themselves feel better by setting their own standards and claiming a better than thou attitude.

So what is it,, your sites are GH or BH,, their MFA or made for YPN... if you started the design or content on your site and before completion you were like " hmm adsense or ypn would do well on this site" then welcome to the world of MFA/ MFY...... regardless if you have other shit on their or not,, your sites are made to make money, if they didnt make any money you wouldnt be on this forum ranting about all of your competition.
Click to expand...

GH? What the fuck is that?
 
Grey Hat is every site made by a webmaster that isnt considered black hat.

Basically it is what idiots who think they are holier than thou have. They call them white hat sites but there is no such thing. If they ever did a link exchange, SEO, pr's etc etc they are tricking the search engines into believing their sites are better than normal. Hence Grey Hat ( GH ) ,, I dont buy all of this " Stay away from BH shit and for every 1 WH site i make 3 BH etc etc etc,,,, There is NO white hat sites.

Thats all I was saying,,lmao
 
tmoney said:
aw fuck that.

as an advertiser i LOVE advertising on MFA sites - the conversion rates are always higher, the cost is cheaper and the traffic usually comes straight from google. i make money, the MFA guy makes money and G makes money.
Click to expand...

I agree. MFA sites that make it to the top of the serps are a good thing if they are being ranked well and getting traffic. Think of it this way. The guy who made the MFA site went through the trouble to make the site itself, seo it for Google, spent time and money getting traffic to it, and they'll be getting paid as a reward for their efforts. The ads are relevant to the content and topic, which is great for the advertiser, and a hell of a lot cheaper than advertising on the engine, instead they are getting warmed up clicks, which convert much better in the end. Why are people so against this?
 
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