Direct Buy - Pub running gdisplay + casale

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mpbiz

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Apr 29, 2010
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I'm about to start a direct buy and just got the webmaster to send my over the g analytics report for the past three months. Right now I'm looking at:

131k+ uniques for a total of 324k impressions.

The flat rate he offered me for top of the fold leaderboard is basically double the rate I could pay to break even.

I haven't tested anything via ppc yet just went straight for a small direct buy which I know goes against what a lot of you guys recommend, so I ran some numbers where my ctr was shitty and my cr was at 1%.

So before I email this guy back and try to negotiate for less than half of the flat rate he originally offered me I'd like to have something to throw him.

With the above uniques and imps, how much is this guy possibly making serving gdisplay and casale. I'm hoping that my new "slap in the face" flat rate will still be more than what he's most likely making using the networks.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.
 


I've negotiated with dozens of website owners and by and large I have found that they ask for astronomical CPM rates and generallt the CTR's end up being shitty.

The only way to do buys with smaller guys is to either ask for 1 or 2 days traffic at a certain rate (you will have to prepay) so you can gauge what your numbers need to be - or do a rev share with them.

Both options are a tough sell if you don't have a relationship built with them. I guess their biggest fear is that you won't pay, therefore you have to prepay.

I got burnt a few weeks ago for $500 for 2 days traffic on a niche website with a lot of traffic. The offer I was promoting perfectly matched the demographic and I was getting 0.45c epc using facebook. Ended up with a few thousand clicks to the offer for no conversions = WTF??

Anyway, its all trial and error - there ain't no magic bullet (apologies to Amish Shah)
 
I got in as a pub in Jan to Casale and my eCPM started at around 0.60 and has dropped to about 0.10 (lol). Take that fwiw. It's going to vary wildly. They prefer lower freq caps which I didn't initially implement which is why it slid so hard but bottom line they have a lot of brand advertisers so I'm sure even $1+ wouldn't be unheard of depending on the niche the site is in. I'm referring specifically to the leaderboard since that's what you're after.
 
How much he is making from casale and gdisplay depends largely on the Niche. So without knowing the Niche, it is hard to even say say how much he must be making. You are a better judge of that since you have the GA report. It has all the keywords that referred the traffic.

It is not very uncommon to get $1+ CPM from Casale and TF for good US traffic in a targetted Niche... unless your traffic is tooo general.. So you would have to beat that.
 
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mpbiz said:
I'm about to start a direct buy and just got the webmaster to send my over the g analytics report for the past three months. Right now I'm looking at:

131k+ uniques for a total of 324k impressions.

The flat rate he offered me for top of the fold leaderboard is basically double the rate I could pay to break even.

I haven't tested anything via ppc yet just went straight for a small direct buy which I know goes against what a lot of you guys recommend, so I ran some numbers where my ctr was shitty and my cr was at 1%.

So before I email this guy back and try to negotiate for less than half of the flat rate he originally offered me I'd like to have something to throw him.

With the above uniques and imps, how much is this guy possibly making serving gdisplay and casale. I'm hoping that my new "slap in the face" flat rate will still be more than what he's most likely making using the networks.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.
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Unless I've missed something you can't say what your ecpm will be until you test it on his site.

negotiate a small buy at whatever rate he is suggesting for a couple of days, when you have your ecpm, negotiate a much bigger buy with a lower ecpm.
 
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harry1970 said:
I've negotiated with dozens of website owners and by and large I have found that they ask for astronomical CPM rates and generallt the CTR's end up being shitty.

The only way to do buys with smaller guys is to either ask for 1 or 2 days traffic at a certain rate (you will have to prepay) so you can gauge what your numbers need to be - or do a rev share with them.

I got burnt a few weeks ago for $500 for 2 days traffic on a niche website with a lot of traffic. The offer I was promoting perfectly matched the demographic and I was getting 0.45c epc using facebook. Ended up with a few thousand clicks to the offer for no conversions = WTF??
Click to expand...

Seema said:
Unless I've missed something you can't say what your ecpm will be until you test it on his site. negotiate a small buy at whatever rate he is suggesting for a couple of days, when you have your ecpm, negotiate a much bigger buy with a lower ecpm.
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Yeah his original flat rate was coming out to about a $2.08cpm and that just wont work for me. I ran some estimates and with a shitty ctr my max cpm came out to $1.50.

I just signed for a 7 day test run at the original flat rate he offered so I can gather some data and go from there.

I've heard a lot of horror stories from some of you guys on here about dealing direct with retarded webmasters, but this guy has been very reasonable from the beginning and seemed very interested in a long term deal so hopefully I'll be able to keep negotiating down as i gather more data.


@harry That buy you just got burnt on... was it just the demographics that matched or was the site dedicated to your actual niche.

Edit: m0rtal and blogspotter +rep for the casale and gdisplay cpm info as well
 
I think the traffic was just junk. It was a celebrity website with videos of celebs. I've monetized this sort of traffic before but here it was just horrible.

But I've even targeted a horoscope website with an astrology lead gen offer, and after testing their traffic I told the webmaster I'd buy all his inventory for 1 month at $2 CPM. He wanted $8 CPM so I politely told him to get fucked. Now he's running google adsense (728x90) and adbrite (300x250) and there is no way he's getting anywhere near that return.

But I've found many webmasters to be total fuckin retards. They stumbled on a website that for whatever reason gets traffic but they have no clue how to monetize it in the long term.
 
m0rtal said:
I got in as a pub in Jan to Casale and my eCPM started at around 0.60 and has dropped to about 0.10 (lol). Take that fwiw. It's going to vary wildly. They prefer lower freq caps which I didn't initially implement which is why it slid so hard but bottom line they have a lot of brand advertisers so I'm sure even $1+ wouldn't be unheard of depending on the niche the site is in. I'm referring specifically to the leaderboard since that's what you're after.
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m0rtal I forgot to ask you..

Are you able to see the ctr data for your casale banners as a pub?

Like I said earlier this guy is running one gdisplay slot and one casale slot and he sent me the ctr's for both of the available placements. I'm just not sure whether thats BS, or if he really does have access to that data as a pub.
 
This might be a stupid question but why not just target the placement on content net?
 
bizzykehl said:
This might be a stupid question but why not just target the placement on content net?
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Typical google bullshit my banners have been under review for a good 9 days now.

Plus, I'd rather establish a direct relationship. I'll make more and so will the pub.
 
mpbiz said:
m0rtal I forgot to ask you..

Are you able to see the ctr data for your casale banners as a pub?

Like I said earlier this guy is running one gdisplay slot and one casale slot and he sent me the ctr's for both of the available placements. I'm just not sure whether thats BS, or if he really does have access to that data as a pub.
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You can see the CTR on a per advertiser basis, doesn't seem to show overall unless he added it up...
 
m0rtal said:
You can see the CTR on a per advertiser basis, doesn't seem to show overall unless he added it up...
Click to expand...

Alright thanks again. If anyone's interested I'll conduct a small case study on this first buy just let me know.
 
Bump.

The webmaster originally offered me a 7 day test run on a 160x600 placement located below the fold on the left side and in the middle of the site.

I've decided to not settle for the below the fold placement and I just sent an email requesting a test run for the above the fold leaderboard.

Hopefully I can grab that placement for my test otherwise I'm walking. Below the fold just seems like setting myself up for failure.

P.S. It's amazing how many site owners are not monetizing their shit properly, and even more amazing how many of them do not respond to emails even when submitted through an advertising form the setup. Time to pick up the phone.
 
mpbiz said:
P.S. It's amazing how many site owners are not monetizing their shit properly, and even more amazing how many of them do not respond to emails even when submitted through an advertising form the setup. Time to pick up the phone.
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I was just recently talking to a couple of people about the same thing. It's bad enough that since nobody in a niche is responding to my advertising requests I'm going to just build a site up myself in one of the niches I'm going after.
 
Just a quick update.

I told the webmaster I was only interested in testing the above the fold placement(728x90 casale) and he gave it to me for 5 days. I know its not enough time to collect significant data, but its my first buy and im pretty stoked.

I'll be testing 2 different LP's and 3-4 banners. I'll be sure to keep the updates going w/ details if anyone is interested just let me know.
 
Good luck man, keep us posted.

At least this webmaster replied, 9/10 times the webmasters I contact don't bother.

BTW Are you running off an ad server? AdShuffle? Sitescout? OpenX?

Don't mean to hjiack, just curious.
 
mpbiz said:
Just a quick update.

I told the webmaster I was only interested in testing the above the fold placement(728x90 casale) and he gave it to me for 5 days. I know its not enough time to collect significant data, but its my first buy and im pretty stoked.

I'll be testing 2 different LP's and 3-4 banners. I'll be sure to keep the updates going w/ details if anyone is interested just let me know.
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Not sure with the amount of impressions you'll recieve whether spliut testing will provide any statistical significance but good luck with the buy.
 
mpbiz said:
P.S. It's amazing how many site owners are not monetizing their shit properly, and even more amazing how many of them do not respond to emails even when submitted through an advertising form the setup. Time to pick up the phone.
Click to expand...

Here's the thing though...while on the surface it may seem like they aren't you don't know what they have or haven't tested nor do you know if and how many other properties they own (maybe they just don't care, volume, etc).

On one particular site that I run mostly Adsense/ CPM on I get a steady amount of advertising inquiries. And 99% of the time they all come at me with the same shit CPA offers that I've a)already tested and b) 70% of the payouts you can actually get so after a while I just start ignoring this stuff especially the cookie cutter "Hi i noticed you're running adsense on your site and probably not monetizing to your full potential...blah blah blah".

I'm guessing your approach is similar, be a little more original and enticing, the people you're e-mailing get this shit on a daily/ weekly basis. Just a point of view from the other side. It's a bit of a joke sometimes when these e-mails come off like they're contacting an idiot on the other end all promising the highest payouts. Some of the cookie cutter shit makes me want to scratch my eyes out.
 
WTFlux said:
Good luck man, keep us posted.

At least this webmaster replied, 9/10 times the webmasters I contact don't bother.

BTW Are you running off an ad server? AdShuffle? Sitescout? OpenX?

Don't mean to hjiack, just curious.
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Shuffle

Seema said:
Not sure with the amount of impressions you'll recieve whether split testing will provide any statistical significance but good luck with the buy.
Click to expand...

This initial test buy won't give me much data, but I'm looking forward to getting more familiar with my adserver and getting my first buy going.

m0rtal said:
Here's the thing though...while on the surface it may seem like they aren't you don't know what they have or haven't tested nor do you know if and how many other properties they own (maybe they just don't care, volume, etc).

On one particular site that I run mostly Adsense/ CPM on I get a steady amount of advertising inquiries. And 99% of the time they all come at me with the same shit CPA offers that I've a)already tested and b) 70% of the payouts you can actually get so after a while I just start ignoring this stuff especially the cookie cutter "Hi i noticed you're running adsense on your site and probably not monetizing to your full potential...blah blah blah".

I'm guessing your approach is similar, be a little more original and enticing, the people you're e-mailing get this shit on a daily/ weekly basis. Just a point of view from the other side. It's a bit of a joke sometimes when these e-mails come off like they're contacting an idiot on the other end all promising the highest payouts. Some of the cookie cutter shit makes me want to scratch my eyes out.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the insight man I appreciate it. I'm sure that some of the sites I've been contacting didn't reply for some of the above reasons, but I think some of them are just plain stupid. Some sites that I hit up are not even serving ads.

I also tried to make my emails as personal as possible, and I didn't send anything like "Hey bro wanna make $2k a month? I can pay you way more than everyone else. Hit me up if you wanna ball hard."

I'm also not pushing cpa offers but actual cps info products. One thing I have definitely noticed though if anyone's following along and interested is that you can't say things like:

What do you think about that flat rate? or
Do you think this price would work for that placement?

You definitely need to be confident and tell them what you want instead of asking for it.
 
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