Brokered Offers

joevis

joevis

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Jul 16, 2009
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Are networks asking permission before doing this? I can see if they wanted some sort of crazy network only payout they would ask...

But is there stealth brokering going on and how do networks feel about this?

Here da boobs.

WBW-Babe-1303207N
 


I've had people startup hasoffers networks and start brokering from me without even asking, which is a violation of our ToS. Usually it's best to speak to the AM / owner of the network first before brokering.
 
tacoX said:
I've had people startup hasoffers networks and start brokering from me without even asking, which is a violation of our ToS. Usually it's best to speak to the AM / owner of the network first before brokering.
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This is why we don't work with 99.9% of hasoffers networks.
 
Before dumbfucks akin to thunderlips arrive, I'd like to point out that brokered offers don't mean shit. High-profile networks who have the direct relationships give STUPID margins to smaller affiliate-run networks. They'd happily accomodate half-cent margins for 1k-5k active pubs on A4D, EWA, C2M, etc doing 20mm/yr rev. CX does it. Azoogle does it. Clickbooth fucking transparently admits it. Your xxxxxx/month to the big networks is chump change and you will never rendezvous with the absolute highest payout you can get from them. The small networks are there to help.


5tul37.jpg
 
MistorToker said:
Before dumbfucks akin to thunderlips arrive, I'd like to point out that brokered offers don't mean shit. High-profile networks who have the direct relationships give STUPID margins to smaller affiliate-run networks. They'd happily accomodate half-cent margins for 1k-5k active pubs on A4D, EWA, C2M, etc doing 20mm/yr rev. CX does it. Azoogle does it. Clickbooth fucking transparently admits it. Your xxxxxx/month to the big networks is chump change and you will never rendezvous with the absolute highest payout you can get from them. The small networks are there to help.


5tul37.jpg
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lol payouts are only one facet of brokered offers you fucking tard
 
yeah i was going to add something, but couldn't edit my post.

one is, don't think that only small offers are running offers from other netwokrs. the big dogs do it also, particularly to get their hands on an offer that has an exclusivity deal with another network.

second is, usually the more times an offer is brokered out (which i've seen be 4-5 times over), the lower the quality becomes, because each step along the way someone is going to allow things that their source wouldn't.
by the time you get to the bottom rung in cases like that, you have idiots that set up hasoffers, open a "network", then post on forums and say "we auto-approve everyone and accept all traffic".

so there should always be permission given to broker an offer out to subaffilaites and especially to broker an offer from network and give it to another network.
 
Won't bash any particular network, but I hate the whole "brokering" offers thing.

A lot of broker networks promise higher payouts but since tracking is via iframe pixels (and not server2server postback), there is always a discrepancy (5-15% which ends up benefiting the broker network). To be fair though, broker networks do add value to affiliates when they provide more help and tips to affiliates that big networks don't.

I guess the bottom line is that it's good to run with broker networks when you are a newbie (need cashflow, tips, traffic sources, etc which broker networks provide you) but when you are in the 4/5/6 figures a day range, you should just go straight to the source.
 
Adscend_Jeremy said:
second is, usually the more times an offer is brokered out (which i've seen be 4-5 times over), the lower the quality becomes, because each step along the way someone is going to allow things that their source wouldn't.
by the time you get to the bottom rung in cases like that, you have idiots that set up hasoffers, open a "network", then post on forums and say "we auto-approve everyone and accept all traffic".

so there should always be permission given to broker an offer out to subaffilaites and especially to broker an offer from network and give it to another network.
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Not only that, but the pixel falloff between one, two, three, or even four extra tiers of traffic will be so bad that the conversion rate wouldn't even be close to what it would be if you were running direct with the network that has it.

This is why you should try to split-test as much as possible, to ensure that you are receiving credit for every lead you actually generate.
 
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iliketurtles said:
Won't bash any particular network, but I hate the whole "brokering" offers thing.

A lot of broker networks promise higher payouts but since tracking is via iframe pixels (and not server2server postback), there is always a discrepancy (5-15% which ends up benefiting the broker network). To be fair though, broker networks do add value to affiliates when they provide more help and tips to affiliates that big networks don't.
Click to expand...

this is exactly what people don't understand, "gee why would someone take $0.25 margins?"

Uh, because and the end of the day their stats show (without a shred of intention on their end) 913 diet leads, while their stats from another party up the chain show 1,002.

There's $3-4k for ya!

Does this always happen? Nope. Can it happen between several parties based on technology coincidences so that you end up converting 250-300% better elsewhere?

Yep.

ABT

always be testing
 
iliketurtles said:
A lot of broker networks promise higher payouts but since tracking is via iframe pixels (and not server2server postback), there is always a discrepancy (5-15% which ends up benefiting the broker network).
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This is exactly why we place server to server pixels on every offer on our network (granted, only the ones that the advertisers can actually support - unfortunately not everyone is up to the same level of technical capabilities).
 
joevis said:
But is there stealth brokering going on and how do networks feel about this?
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Yeah, there is definitely stealth brokering going on and I believe that what the network feels about it depends on how much they care about their merchants. Stealth brokering is a massive source of fraud and any network that doesn't care about stealth brokering really doesn't care much about the merchants for which they are supposed to be working.

Why is stealth brokering a massive source of fraud? Because it is typically employed by third and fourth tier networks that are unwilling/unable to reach out and make deals with other networks or with merchants directly. They are unwilling/unable to make deals because their network is nothing more than a source of affiliates that have either been banned from other networks or can't get approved into other networks. They know (or they are too ignorant to realize) that the leads they deliver are nothing but garbage and they hope to deliver leads until they are caught by the network from which they are sourcing the offers. Once they are caught, they simply grab the same offers from another network who doesn't care about stealth brokering.

Networks that knowingly allow stealth brokering know the leads they receive this way are total shit. Continuing to send these kinds of leads to their merchants makes them not much different that the third/fourth tier networks that deliver the shit leads. All they really care about is making a quick buck at anyone's expense. While everyone's goal is to make as much money as possible in as short of a period of time, there are ways to do it where everyone wins (merchant, affiliate, network). Sadly, the networks that allow stealth brokering only care about one part of that equasion: the network.

Note that I'm only talking about stealth brokering. Traditional brokering between networks can work well for all parties involved because there is communication involved. The key part that is missing from stealth brokering.
 
some networks don't, they usually don't last long because they quickly establish a bad reputation.

it's common practice and respectable to ask before doing so. if you do then there is a better chance of possibly getting higher payouts and other benefits.
 
MaxSteve said:
Yeah, there is definitely stealth brokering going on and I believe that what the network feels about it depends on how much they care about their merchants. Stealth brokering is a massive source of fraud and any network that doesn't care about stealth brokering really doesn't care much about the merchants for which they are supposed to be working.

Why is stealth brokering a massive source of fraud? Because it is typically employed by third and fourth tier networks that are unwilling/unable to reach out and make deals with other networks or with merchants directly. They are unwilling/unable to make deals because their network is nothing more than a source of affiliates that have either been banned from other networks or can't get approved into other networks. They know (or they are too ignorant to realize) that the leads they deliver are nothing but garbage and they hope to deliver leads until they are caught by the network from which they are sourcing the offers. Once they are caught, they simply grab the same offers from another network who doesn't care about stealth brokering.

Networks that knowingly allow stealth brokering know the leads they receive this way are total shit. Continuing to send these kinds of leads to their merchants makes them not much different that the third/fourth tier networks that deliver the shit leads. All they really care about is making a quick buck at anyone's expense. While everyone's goal is to make as much money as possible in as short of a period of time, there are ways to do it where everyone wins (merchant, affiliate, network). Sadly, the networks that allow stealth brokering only care about one part of that equasion: the network.

Note that I'm only talking about stealth brokering. Traditional brokering between networks can work well for all parties involved because there is communication involved. The key part that is missing from stealth brokering.
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Good post.
Brokering is quite alright, stealth brokering shouldn't even be part of an equation.
 
What gets me is when a network brokering an offer has a HIGHER payout than the original network.. Once I trace the link, I quickly spit out a msg on AIM and ask the original network hey network X is offer YOUR offer at a HIGHER payout how can that be (I'm talking about 40-50% higher)? When I usually tell them the brokered payout they usually laugh and tell me there is no way they are supported that payout without scrubbing your balls out...most of the time the brokered payout is HIGHER than what the original network gets it at....
 
Angel of Wealth said:
What gets me is when a network brokering an offer has a HIGHER payout than the original network.. Once I trace the link, I quickly spit out a msg on AIM and ask the original network hey network X is offer YOUR offer at a HIGHER payout how can that be (I'm talking about 40-50% higher)? When I usually tell them the brokered payout they usually laugh and tell me there is no way they are supported that payout without scrubbing your balls out...most of the time the brokered payout is HIGHER than what the original network gets it at....
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No, they just won't admit to you that they have agency rates. I've been on plenty of offers where when I go brokered I can get a higher payout than most affiliates because the network brokering runs 95% of the ON's (original network) traffic. You just need to know how to talk.
 
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