Stephen Hawking Says the Universe Was Not Created by God

[BluuueJammm]

Both of you clearly didn't read my post and have any clue what I actually believe in and am arguing.

I did read them, I was explaining why the FSM was legitimately used while you were saying it was just used as an insult.

The only argument for it would be people that have near death experiences - which are extremely interesting and all evidence they provide would be contrary to what you believe in.

Just wow, but that's a whole other argument for another thread.

You're arguing that flying spaghetti pooped out planets and is responsible for the universe. It's clearly being used as an insult, where the beliefs I'm proposing are not insulting at all.

I'm not arguing that at all, in fact it's the opposite of what I think, I'm arguing that it's as likely and possible as all other gods are.

 

[zimok]

No, I don't get it. I'm arguing that it's logical to believe in unexplainable forces that mankind literally cannot comprehend.

logical, seriously?

 

[clyde]

Yes, I think it is utterly ridiculous that a child born in a third world country with no chance to even grasp religion or God is damned to burn in hell for eternity.

It's ridiculous in general for anybody to have to believe in anything in order to NOT go to hell. Religions that promote this comprise of fear-mongering zealots full of hypocrisy and any faith that is a result of this is a result of fear not truth.

It's as stupid as going to a starving child in Africa telling him "Ask God for food and see what happens".

No, I don't get it. I'm arguing that it's logical to believe in unexplainable forces that mankind literally cannot comprehend...

You're arguing that flying spaghetti pooped out planets and is responsible for the universe. It's clearly being used as an insult, where the beliefs I'm proposing are not insulting at all.

It's only insulting if you don't believe in it. Everybody have their own personal belief, but christianity(for example) in general has made a lot of people unhappy.

Modern day problems:
Use of Condoms.
Gays.
Abortions.

Before this:
killing of innocent women for "witchcraft".
the crusades.
antisemitism.
book burning, destroying the mayan culture.

but don't even let me get started with Islam, this religion has a much bigger problem than the rest. SMH

I never said the earth is 5,000 years old. I never said Moses parted a sea and people walked through it. I never said God turned people into pillars of salt. Get your facts straight when you want to argue with me about my beliefs.

Sorry, was talking about certain churches of Christianity I guess. Still, my point was made. There's no way Science will come to "actually guys, god made everything, we were wrong" but there's nothing absolute in Science so i'll say 99.99999% chance.

 

[SUP3RNOVA]

I did read them, I was explaining why the FSM was legitimately used while you were saying it was just used as an insult.

lol, it's not being legitimately used. It's being used as an insult. As said before we are dealing with forces that we have zero knowledge and comprehension on, and that's why it's difficult to argue. You can comprehend what a spaghetti monster would look like and could agree that it is stupid to believe that spaghetti (a food) created the universe.

Just wow, but that's a whole other argument for another thread.

I didn't confirm nor deny any validity in NDEs, but they are interesting nonetheless. Revealing? Not really as again there's no proof either way.

I'm not arguing that at all, in fact it's the opposite of what I think, I'm arguing that it's as likely and possible as all other gods are.

Right, but arguing the Flying Spaghetti Monster Theory to someone religious is insulting because of that childish comparison. If there are external and nonphysical forces out there (which neither you or I can prove or disprove), we both can be pretty certain it's not flying spaghetti and meatballs.

logical, seriously?

Yes. Practical given today's discoveries and what we think we know? No. But that's why it's a faith based belief. Humans are a few thousand years old, compare that to what we think the age of the universe is. It is beyond a scale we can comprehend. How can we expect to know the origins of everything and how big the universe is (and how many there are) when we haven't even left our own solar system, a pin prick in itself.

It's ridiculous in general for anybody to have to believe in anything in order to NOT go to hell. Religions that promote this comprise of fear-mongering zealots full of hypocrisy and any faith that is a result of this is a result of fear not truth.

Would you read my first post before you make statements like these? I have already brought up organized religion and my thoughts on the fear harboring and hypocrisy it's filled with. You're directly speaking to me about something I've already said and agree with.


I seriously have spent way too much time on WF this morning and need to get back to work, lol.

 

[Rusky]

Hey Clyde.
Lets talk about Abortion.

You dont have to be a Christian to see whats wrong with the picture below right.
Killing of Babies is wrong - but not for an atheist because were all just meat bags without a soul. Thats why eugenics is okay, and abortion actually is somewhat related to that. Its purpose is to control the birthrates of poor and the uneducated class, therefore helping evolve a newer better man. I wonder how many million babies were slaughtered in the past 50 years.

The founder of Planned Parenthood - Margaret Sanger.
From Wikipedia - "Sanger was a proponent of negative eugenics, a social philosophy which claims that human hereditary traits can be improved through social intervention. Sanger's eugenic policies ran to an exclusionary immigration policy, free access to birth control methods and full family-planning autonomy for the able-minded, and compulsory segregation or sterilization for the profoundly retarded."

Wow atheists responsible for millions of dead babies, and social intervention experiments. Yet the atheists will once again talk about the 1000 year old crusades.

 

[turbolapp]

we both can be pretty certain it's not flying spaghetti and meatballs.

Sure. As certain as we can be that it's not your god either.

 

[-God-]

Right, but arguing the Flying Spaghetti Monster Theory to someone religious is insulting because of that childish comparison. If there are external and nonphysical forces out there (which neither you or I can prove or disprove), we both can be pretty certain it's not flying spaghetti and meatballs.

You're both getting the point and completely missing it in equal measure.

FSM is used to show how stupid religion is. You say FSM is childish and stupid, but it is as likely as god, or allah, or vishnu, or thor, or zeus or...

The point is that most, on here at least, only believe in the christian god, yet choose not to believe in a 1000 others because "they're stupid".

The reality is, someone who believes only in "their god", is an atheist in the eyes of every religion that doesn't recognise that god. Every atheist simply believes in one less god than you.

What happens when you die if it's the wrong god you've supported all these years? I mean it really is like rolling a 1000 sided dice to see what god you support really isn't it? In many ways the religious view dictates that the vast majority of the world are going to burn in hell.

Believing in the FSM is my choice. May your soul rest in pasta.

 

[subigo]

Relgious debate on WF? This changes everything I thought I knew about the world. You've opened my eyes and enlightened me to a new beginning. I thank you all for such inspiring words.

RABBLE.

 

[clyde]

Hey Clyde.
Lets talk about Abortion.

You dont have to be a Christian to see whats wrong with the picture below right.
Killing of Babies is wrong - but not for an atheist because were all just meat bags without a soul.

LMAO at you playing god.

I didn't say it was right or wrong, I only said that Christianity made a lot of people unhappy which is true. If I had to choose, given the circumstances, I would evaluate every course of action, and consequences.

Is masturbation = murder to you? Why, cuz god said so?

It's one of those complicated issues where saying "My god said this so you must obey" is hypocritical at best.

Fact of the matter is, the Crusades was in the name of Jesus and it was pretty much massacre. (FSM bless their soul)

Also, there's no atheist indoctrination, we're responsible for our own individual action. Don't equate nazism to atheism please. Educate yourself.

 

[SUP3RNOVA]

Sure. As certain as we can be that it's not your god either.

Cool, so you've read my posts. Any response to what I posted in reply to your Christianity/Islam comparison?

What happens when you die if it's the wrong god you've supported all these years? I mean it really is like rolling a 1000 sided dice to see what god you support really isn't it? In many ways the religious view dictates that the vast majority of the world are going to burn in hell.

It sounds like you didn't read my long post either. I support a God that is more of an idea of something I cannot comprehend, but believe to be there. I believe that through self-reflection and consistent work into building myself into a better person I will have set myself up as good as I can for what's to come after life in the physical world, if it exists.

I'm extremely open to the fact that we may die and just become dirt and recycled by the Earth, that is certainly possible. There's just a part of me that believes there's more to existence than just being born, and then dying.

There are a million possibilities and not one of them can be ruled exclusively in or out. It's possible that there is an afterlife and what you believe right now will have zero impact on that. You could rape and murder and do bad things your entire life and wind up in the same place as everyone else. I just don't believe a universe so beautifully structured could work that way. Respect the unknown.

I can respect and even agree with the viewpoints of atheists and can only hope for their sake that I'm not right in my beliefs.

 

[Rusky]

Also, there's no atheist indoctrination, we're responsible for our own individual action. Don't equate nazism to atheism please. Educate yourself.

Talk about educating yourself. Margaret Sanger was American, and eugenics didnt originate from nazis but from darwinists.

Learn my atheist friend. Life is not as simple as they say it is.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEja-1emRic"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]


Hey look its federally funded.

 

[turbolapp]

There are a million possibilities

Bingo! So what are the chances you've got the right idea of a god and an afterlife? A million to one?

What are the chances you will disregard this statistical fact because you're terrified of the unknown? I'd say 100%, but I would be delighted if you would prove me wrong on that .

 

[SUP3RNOVA]

Bingo! So what are the chances you've got the right idea of a god and an afterlife? A million to one?

What are the chances you will disregard this statistical fact because you're terrified of the unknown? I'd say 100%, but I would be delighted if you would prove me wrong on that .

Once again, any response to my comments on your comparison to Christianity and Islam? Or are you going to continue to dodge the issue entirely? Don't say something if you can't back it up.

Now in regards what you just said (because I actually respond to arguments made against me), you're mixing up what I was saying. There are a million different possibilities of what an afterlife could be like.

The odds you just mentioned are impossible to calculate, it is not a statistical fact that the chances of there being an afterlife (and along with that a God) are 1,000,000 to 1. The only certain statistic we can measure has 2 options :

1) There is no afterlife.
2) There is an afterlife.

Going by that, there is a 1 in 2 chance there is an afterlife, right? No, because it's still an impossible statistic to calculate just like the one you brought up.

Branching out from those 2 choices are where my 'million possibilities' came from. From our first option there are no other possibilities, there is no afterlife and you die and become what you were before you were born: nothing. It's the second choice that yields a million different possibilities behind it and that's what I was talking about.

I'm certainly not terrified of the unknown (as I've stated myself this is what organized religion uses as an anchor), but I am open to the possibility that the unknown is something that I can't possibly imagine right now. It's a scary thing because of the fact that it's unknown, but I understand that it's not in my control at all.

Trust me, I really wouldn't mind if there were no afterlife and once I die, I'm dead. Because at that point everything is blank and erased anyways, no pain, no joy, no suffering, nothing. I just don't believe it's that simple.

What's the end result of this an how does it impact my physical life? There's a lot more self-reflection through prayer, and a lot of focus on being a morally good person and constantly trying to improve myself. It's not such a bad thing.

My problem with atheists (aside from the fact that from personal experience they seem like more bitter people and I wouldn't want to be them) is the "know it all" attitude. Believing in no god and no afterlife is saying you know for certain that nothing lies beyond death. You don't know that because you haven't experienced death. You don't know if there are metaphysical forces we can't see or comprehend, because you live in a physical world that makes physical discoveries about physical facts.

Being more open-minded about things can really change the type of person you are and in the least, help you with your physical life here and now.

 

[turbolapp]

This comparison you keep talking about, you're going to have to link to it cause this thread is too long and ranting for me to bother to read every post. But you kind of lose me at "comparison" because they're both equally irrelevant to me. It's only when people start going to down the slippery slope of saying one religion is better, or more peaceful, or less hate indoctrinated that I start to get really annoyed. Religion by very nature is indoctrinated antiquated dogma set up by ancient politics and government ruled by violence, fear and greed regardless of whether you subscribe to Teamwhitey or Teambrownies.

In reference to the rest of your post the "million" I was referring to was your idea of the afterlife. Not actual afterlife it's self. People set up rules and dogma based on this, and it's preposterous, as it's a mathematical impossibility that anyone could ever know about the afterlife, much less set up entire infrastructures based upon it.

 

[SUP3RNOVA]

This comparison you keep talking about, you're going to have to link to it cause this thread is too long and ranting for me to bother to read every post. But you kind of lose me at "comparison" because they're both equally irrelevant to me. It's only when people start going to down the slippery slope of saying one religion is better, or more peaceful, or less hate indoctrinated that I start to dismiss it all together. Religion by very nature is indoctrinated antiquated dogma set up by ancient politics and government ruled by violence, fear and greed.

Here :

Have you ever heard of the word 'reform'?

Christianity has clearly reformed itself since the times of The Crusades. When was the last time Christian terrorism was a major problem in the world? When was the last time Islamic terrorism was a major problem in the world?

Christianity was reformed in part because of the basic teachings of The Bible - to love. Islam shares some of the same sentiments, with the extra "wage jihad on all nonbelievers" here and there. That's the critical difference and is why Islam STILL is a major problem in the world.

 

[SUP3RNOVA]

^^And by "major problem in the world" I mean violence and death on a massive scale.

Yes, we all know every religion breeds it's own problems, but to say Islam is the same as Christianity is false. Knocking on your door and annoying you is one thing, blowing you up is another. This is a very clear difference between Christianity and Islam, and if you have to be worried more about 1 religion, it is Islam.

 

[xentech]

People still believe in God? lol

 

[turbolapp]

^^And by "major problem in the world" I mean violence and death on a massive scale.

Violence and death on a massive scale like invading countries and killing thousands? Or dropping atomic bombs? These are works of a christian nation, in the name of patriotism, which as I've said before is the most dangerous relgion of all.

Listen, I'm not going to tit for tat you, Like I said it's a slippery slope you can't claim one religion is better than another, because it's a religion.

 

[Uptime]

. . . . . .
My problem with atheists (aside from the fact that from personal experience they seem like more bitter people and I wouldn't want to be them) is the "know it all" attitude.

"The Pew Research Centre recently surveyed Americans on their religious knowledge – and for a country where religion
is so prominent, the results were surprising. Self-described atheists and agnostics out-performed every other group, . . . . ."

But you wouldn't understand that because you, like many of the other atheists here, seem bitter ("you fuckers").

After reading through your posts you calling other people bitter makes up in irony what you lack in creditability.

 

[SUP3RNOVA]

Violence and death on a massive scale like invading countries and killing thousands? Or dropping atomic bombs?

When was an atomic bomb dropped in the name of the Christian God? You are twisting facts on an extreme level.

These are works of a christian nation

Tying patriotism and Christianity together is plain stupid. The USA was built on many Christian moral values, NONE of them dealing with waging war or killing.

in the name of patriotism, which as I've said before is the most dangerous relgion of all.

Ok, and this relates to the Christianity/Islam comparison...how?

Listen, I'm not going to tit for tat you

Because you can't. You didn't address my response at all.

Like I said it's a slippery slope you can't claim one religion is better than another, because it's a religion.

That is an extremely biased opinion based on no factual evidence, therefore it does absolutely nothing to strengthen your argument. You're also changing the subject, I never claimed Christianity was better than Islam (because that would be an opinion). I said to compare them on the same level or look at them as "equal" or "equally dangerous" is factually false. Why? As I stated before, the Bible does not preach jihad and since the times of earlier less civilized nations, Christianity has reformed and it's message is much different from Islam's.

I'd like you to find one person here who agrees with you and what you just said, maybe they'll be able to debate this better.