A Case For Relevancy in an Arguably Irrelevant Community

boatBurner

shutup, crime!
Feb 24, 2012
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Maybe it's because I'm young, naive, and easily excitable having yet to be jaded by the pointy elbows of Capitalism, but I think WickedFire could be more. You're thinking,

"More? What the fuck does that even mean!?"

And that's fair. But first I'll address your next question:

"Why the fuck did you write this?"

I took some time out to write this proposal because I have a really big chubby for the idea of community. I've always agreed that once I've established a modest level of success in business, I'd strive to be an impact player at the city and local industry level. It's a win-win. I do believe there are differences between a real world, local community and an online, global forum, but I'll address those if a discussion follows.

Secondly, I've spent too much time around this board for the sake of entertainment and not enough time adding or extracting value. That's going to change, and until I write this community off entirely, I will do my part.

In response to your first question, I'll start by defining what I perceive WickedFire to be. Keep in mind that my first encounter with web design was in 1999 while my first meaningful encounter with SEO was in 2011. WickedFire is a shallow knowledgebase and common for internet marketers and related professionals. And of course, all of the meaningful stuff happens between newly-connected members off-site or offline. But in an industry that is particularly gaurded due to constant warring with search engineers, easily exploitable markets, and a wavering level of ethics, I find it hard to differentiate between the who's who. It was Guerilla who told me, "'Peasant' is just a state of mind." Among the "peasant" pool of our active membership, I see people with at least a basic understanding of marketing (exceptions apply), a commendable drive, and the want to work and learn. To me, that sums up potential. To vets, well, I've heard more than a few remarks regarding the "poor" state of this community in comparison to five years ago. I can't attest to that. But I am a witness to the upside, and I'm one of them. So here's my proposal:

This is not a plea for vets to hire out and mentor a new guy. Instead, leverage the membership here at WickedFire (and no, taking advantage of a situation does not require malicious intent). In my short time here, I can't recall the number of moments I've thought to myself, "Oh snap, that guy is a developer/designer/manufacturer/real estate agent/cock fluffer." Give us - small business founders and freelancers - a way to connect and collaborate beyond STS or the many useful sub-forums currently available.

I suppose this should be directed to Jon, but I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks about this proposal.

TL;DR: Give us - small business founders and freelancers - a way to connect and collaborate beyond STS or the many useful sub-forums currently available.
 


didnotreadlol1.gif
 
I really don't know what you're hoping for with this post.

The one ton nugget of gold I can drop on you is this, stop wading through all the shit posted on here and crack open a marketing book. Not the bullshit Seth Godin puts out (I fkn hate this dude, but hustlers gon hustle.) I used to spend 10 hours a week looking through threads hoping for something that would help me out in business and over the last two years I've stopped trying.

I picked up some copywriting books from the old school masters of the industry and haven't really looked back. I read 20 pages and had more "ah ha", mind altering, paradigm shifting experiences than I'd had in two years on this board. Here's the best part though, the few posters that drop nuggets like these are those have done what I've mentioned above, have gone back and studied the masters.

Stop looking to wickedfire as a form of education, the few that know what the fuck they're doing often times just keep quiet to avoid explaining why someone should build a list instead of collecting dem fat adsense checkz, why some are able to sell the same information found in a book for $20 for $10k, and why relying on one media (seo, ppc, etc.) is fucking retarded (here's another question for most of you guys to consider, why aren't you using banner ads? did someone on a thread like this or bhw tell you that banners are dead, why did you believe them? have you ever stopped to realize that there are thousands of niche sites out there with little to no advertising on them with targeted, interested prospects that can be rented for sometimes under $50 a month?). Go back and study the history of marketing, you guys think this is the first time someone has stripped a media from a business? What about no call lists, what about broadcast faxes, do you really think that you're the first to get fucked by relying too heavily on one media? Open your eyes and look around, there's a lot to learn if you take your blinders off.
 
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I really don't know what you're hoping for with this post.

Meaningful discussion, and really, a sense of worth of this community. As far as something actionable, I'd propose a new sub-forum for founders and freelancers.

I'm not so disillusioned to think that WickedFire is the uber source of marketing info. I actually value this community for its potential as a networking tool, not as a gold mine. I also agree that SEO shouldn't be relied upon as the only medium and I think this forum was founded during a time when SEO was much more exploitable as a method.

I'm asking if people think this forum has stagnated, and if so, what would help keep it relevant to internet business owners.

The value is in the people you meet here that you talk to privately.

And my proposal was founded on this belief. Well said.
 
TL;DR: Give us - small business founders and freelancers - a way to connect and collaborate beyond STS or the many useful sub-forums currently available.

Are you saying "give us Skype"?
 
I really don't know what you're hoping for with this post.

The one ton nugget of gold I can drop on you is this, stop wading through all the shit posted on here and crack open a marketing book. Not the bullshit Seth Godin puts out (I fkn hate this dude, but hustlers gon hustle.) I used to spend 10 hours a week looking through threads hoping for something that would help me out in business and over the last two years I've stopped trying.

I picked up some copywriting books from the old school masters of the industry and haven't really looked back. I read 20 pages and had more "ah ha", mind altering, paradigm shifting experiences than I'd had in two years on this board. Here's the best part though, the few posters that drop nuggets like these are those have done what I've mentioned above, have gone back and studied the masters.

Stop looking to wickedfire as a form of education, the few that know what the fuck they're doing often times just keep quiet to avoid explaining why someone should build a list instead of collecting dem fat adsense checkz, why some are able to sell the same information found in a book for $20 for $10k, and why relying on one media (seo, ppc, etc.) is fucking retarded (here's another question for most of you guys to consider, why aren't you using banner ads? did someone on a thread like this or bhw tell you that banners are dead, why did you believe them? have you ever stopped to realize that there are thousands of niche sites out there with little to no advertising on them with targeted, interested prospects that can be rented for sometimes under $50 a month?). Go back and study the history of marketing, you guys think this is the first time someone has stripped a media from a business? What about no call lists, what about broadcast faxes, do you really think that you're the first to get fucked by relying too heavily on one media? Open your eyes and look around, there's a lot to learn if you take your blinders off.

Fantastic post. To help a bit more, please suggest some good texts/books which you found good.
 
I really don't know what you're hoping for with this post.

The one ton nugget of gold I can drop on you is this, stop wading through all the shit posted on here and crack open a marketing book. Not the bullshit Seth Godin puts out (I fkn hate this dude, but hustlers gon hustle.) I used to spend 10 hours a week looking through threads hoping for something that would help me out in business and over the last two years I've stopped trying.

I picked up some copywriting books from the old school masters of the industry and haven't really looked back. I read 20 pages and had more "ah ha", mind altering, paradigm shifting experiences than I'd had in two years on this board. Here's the best part though, the few posters that drop nuggets like these are those have done what I've mentioned above, have gone back and studied the masters.

Stop looking to wickedfire as a form of education, the few that know what the fuck they're doing often times just keep quiet to avoid explaining why someone should build a list instead of collecting dem fat adsense checkz, why some are able to sell the same information found in a book for $20 for $10k, and why relying on one media (seo, ppc, etc.) is fucking retarded (here's another question for most of you guys to consider, why aren't you using banner ads? did someone on a thread like this or bhw tell you that banners are dead, why did you believe them? have you ever stopped to realize that there are thousands of niche sites out there with little to no advertising on them with targeted, interested prospects that can be rented for sometimes under $50 a month?). Go back and study the history of marketing, you guys think this is the first time someone has stripped a media from a business? What about no call lists, what about broadcast faxes, do you really think that you're the first to get fucked by relying too heavily on one media? Open your eyes and look around, there's a lot to learn if you take your blinders off.

hNGdv.gif


Currently reading hardball selling.
 
I really don't know what you're hoping for with this post.

The one ton nugget of gold I can drop on you is this, stop wading through all the shit posted on here and crack open a marketing book. Not the bullshit Seth Godin puts out (I fkn hate this dude, but hustlers gon hustle.) I used to spend 10 hours a week looking through threads hoping for something that would help me out in business and over the last two years I've stopped trying.

I picked up some copywriting books from the old school masters of the industry and haven't really looked back. I read 20 pages and had more "ah ha", mind altering, paradigm shifting experiences than I'd had in two years on this board. Here's the best part though, the few posters that drop nuggets like these are those have done what I've mentioned above, have gone back and studied the masters.

Stop looking to wickedfire as a form of education, the few that know what the fuck they're doing often times just keep quiet to avoid explaining why someone should build a list instead of collecting dem fat adsense checkz, why some are able to sell the same information found in a book for $20 for $10k, and why relying on one media (seo, ppc, etc.) is fucking retarded (here's another question for most of you guys to consider, why aren't you using banner ads? did someone on a thread like this or bhw tell you that banners are dead, why did you believe them? have you ever stopped to realize that there are thousands of niche sites out there with little to no advertising on them with targeted, interested prospects that can be rented for sometimes under $50 a month?). Go back and study the history of marketing, you guys think this is the first time someone has stripped a media from a business? What about no call lists, what about broadcast faxes, do you really think that you're the first to get fucked by relying too heavily on one media? Open your eyes and look around, there's a lot to learn if you take your blinders off.

didnotreadlol1.gif
 
Fantastic post. To help a bit more, please suggest some good texts/books which you found good.

ultimate sales machine
victor schwab - how to write a good advertisement
advertising secrets of the written word
forbidden keys to persuasion
7 steps to freedom
any gary halbert
scientific advertising
tested advertising methods - caples
jay abraham - getting everything you can out of all you've got
the e myth revisited
triggers - sugarman i think
millionaire fast lane
pitch anything
how to get rich felix dennis
breakthrough advertising

if you want specifics on optimization pm me, too lazy to dig that shit up atm.

if you had to read one course though on branching out from google buy, borrow or steal a copy of ryan deiss - ultimate list building system

ANYTHING DAN KENNEDY dude was a huge influence on me
start with magnetic marketing
then renegade millionaire
then ultimate marketing and entrepreneurship
joint venture and back end
i loved opportunity marketing
marketing to the mass affluent

if you're selling face to face kenrick cleveland is a fkn must
unconcious persuasion
max persuasion
objection mastery

another face to face must is dress for success - john t. molly

joe polish is another huge influence of mine, guys got robot marketing on lock
 
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Only way you'd ever achieve the collaboration that you want would be via some form of private sub-forum.

There'd then have to be some kinda agreement that people wouldn't divulge stuff and so forth (which would probably still happen from time to time anyway).

You also have the challenge of dealing with who is "worthy" in the first place, which I'm sure none of the mods want to have to deal with.
 
You are asking for something that exists. If you aren't asked out to the ball, it doesn't mean there isn't a ball going on...

I understand there are privileged members. And I have already addressed briefly the fact that information is guarded in this industry. I think that by establishing an open forum intended for young or new business founders, it would encourage newcomers to collaborate with one another, reduce the volume of garbage posts (if only slightly), and still maintain the integrity of "veteran-level" knowledge while progressing the quality of the wicked fire membership. Bottom feeders are near useless without mentorship but can leran more by networking with their peers and exchanging lessons learned in a community that would otherwise yawn at the novice-level learning progression.
 
TL;DR: Give us - small business founders and freelancers - a way to connect and collaborate beyond STS or the many useful sub-forums currently available.

what the fuck do you want Jon to do? Organize a picnic and pay everybody's flight tickets? (Because yeah, we're all located in different corners of the world ya know?)

this is a public forum bro, if you want to connect outside of it, join a Skype group or go to a IM event like Affiliate Summit or SMX and make sure you hit the strip joints after the event, that's where you'll find WF'ers spending their adsense monies.
 
Pretty much what okuma said, I got all my best information from book recommendations here:

eat that frog by tracy
willpower instinct by some woman
willpower by baumeister
power of habit - duhig
millionurrr fastlane - demarco

disregard people with cum stained shirts on amazon who rate books at 1 star, acquire knowledge



@okuma

these books you recommended

if you're selling face to face kenrick cleveland is a fkn must
unconcious persuasion
max persuasion
objection mastery

are these good for door to door sales? i will doing that soon