Background : I was raised a super Christian (not evangelical/nutjob status though) by my mother, who was raised a super Christian by her borderline evangelical-hardcore mother. For the first 22 years of my life I got to know everything Christianity is about, what they stand for, and how they go about their business. I've spent hours in prayer and I've believed that saying "Jesus" out loud was blasphemy that warranted a life in hell. About 6 months ago I became agnostic, acknowledging that there's a clear logical conflict with a bunch of religions claiming they're all the one and only Truth. Being a subtle agnostic only lasted for a few months, and I'm now a very clear agnostic that has MAJOR problems with organized religion, and my family.
Cliff notes : My sisters attend church and youth groups at The Chapel, a massive non-denominational church located in a business park. In our many arguments where I leave them speechless, they always tell me to "Come talk to Pastor Jerry and ask him all these questions we can't answer". I'm going to do that, so the question to you in this thread is : What would you ask him? (being serious about it)
Long hand :
As stated before I was a Christian. I wasn't pushy with other people about it, but I had my beliefs. 6 months ago I started to question that belief, which led to me becoming an "I don't know" agnostic. I believe there may be some form of a god out there, some intelligent designer, that we might be living in a computer simulation, or that we simply stop existing when we die. They're all plausible. Either way, it changed my view on organized religion from Follower, to a non-believer who still would say "They're teaching good morals and doing good things, I don't see the problem with it as long as it doesn't turn into violence."
Then I watched the documentary Jesus Camp yesterday.
Now I can say that my position has changed from a non-believer who said "eh for the most part it's harmless, let them do their thing" to an extremely pissed off non-believer that despises all the trickery and deception in organized religion...all to get people to believe a lie. It is disgusting what parents and religious leaders do to innocent children at their most vulnerable time. Now that I look outside the box even further, I can see that it happened to me. It's not just the crazy Evangelicals that homeschool their kids, it's the parents that trick you by pretending to be subtle when they deliver you their ultimatum: if you don't believe this you're burning alone in hell forever. I'm a victim just as much as any other child that was raised a Christian...our free will (ie all that makes us human) is stripped from us and we are told that we have no will, everything is God's will (ahem..."God's will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven).
I've already started arguing with my Jesus Camp sisters about it and I'm finding out that you get nowhere, fast. So I'm going to take them up on their offer and speak with the leader of the church about it. Here's what I plan on talking about :
-the fact that believing billions of good, caring, loving people are going to burn in hell forever for not accepting something written only in a 5,000 year old book
-blind faith does not equal faith, it equals blindness
-why do other religions exist that claim the same thing and have the same amount of evidence
-the fact that you can live by a perfect moral code without having to believe that someone died for you
-how exactly to interpret the Bible, and whether or not it should be interpreted in the first place
-similarities between Christianity and any other religion...all just parables about good vs evil
I'm sure all of those points will lead to more points, and I'm sure that in the end, he will have an answer for everything. I'm also sure that every answer he has is going to come from the Bible, which is illogical for obvious reasons. But that seems to be the way religious people (Christians in this case) argue...they prove prophecies in their Bible with other prophecies coming true...in their Bible.
Also I extend a 1/3 apology to turbo for always ragging on her raging atheism. I still disagree with being an asshole about it though.
It just sucks that I can already foresee this destroying my family...all over one gigantic lie.
Cliff notes : My sisters attend church and youth groups at The Chapel, a massive non-denominational church located in a business park. In our many arguments where I leave them speechless, they always tell me to "Come talk to Pastor Jerry and ask him all these questions we can't answer". I'm going to do that, so the question to you in this thread is : What would you ask him? (being serious about it)
Long hand :
As stated before I was a Christian. I wasn't pushy with other people about it, but I had my beliefs. 6 months ago I started to question that belief, which led to me becoming an "I don't know" agnostic. I believe there may be some form of a god out there, some intelligent designer, that we might be living in a computer simulation, or that we simply stop existing when we die. They're all plausible. Either way, it changed my view on organized religion from Follower, to a non-believer who still would say "They're teaching good morals and doing good things, I don't see the problem with it as long as it doesn't turn into violence."
Then I watched the documentary Jesus Camp yesterday.
Now I can say that my position has changed from a non-believer who said "eh for the most part it's harmless, let them do their thing" to an extremely pissed off non-believer that despises all the trickery and deception in organized religion...all to get people to believe a lie. It is disgusting what parents and religious leaders do to innocent children at their most vulnerable time. Now that I look outside the box even further, I can see that it happened to me. It's not just the crazy Evangelicals that homeschool their kids, it's the parents that trick you by pretending to be subtle when they deliver you their ultimatum: if you don't believe this you're burning alone in hell forever. I'm a victim just as much as any other child that was raised a Christian...our free will (ie all that makes us human) is stripped from us and we are told that we have no will, everything is God's will (ahem..."God's will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven).
I've already started arguing with my Jesus Camp sisters about it and I'm finding out that you get nowhere, fast. So I'm going to take them up on their offer and speak with the leader of the church about it. Here's what I plan on talking about :
-the fact that believing billions of good, caring, loving people are going to burn in hell forever for not accepting something written only in a 5,000 year old book
-blind faith does not equal faith, it equals blindness
-why do other religions exist that claim the same thing and have the same amount of evidence
-the fact that you can live by a perfect moral code without having to believe that someone died for you
-how exactly to interpret the Bible, and whether or not it should be interpreted in the first place
-similarities between Christianity and any other religion...all just parables about good vs evil
I'm sure all of those points will lead to more points, and I'm sure that in the end, he will have an answer for everything. I'm also sure that every answer he has is going to come from the Bible, which is illogical for obvious reasons. But that seems to be the way religious people (Christians in this case) argue...they prove prophecies in their Bible with other prophecies coming true...in their Bible.
Also I extend a 1/3 apology to turbo for always ragging on her raging atheism. I still disagree with being an asshole about it though.
It just sucks that I can already foresee this destroying my family...all over one gigantic lie.
