I give up

Rage9

Rage9

Banned
Jan 7, 2008
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Frameworks are awesome. MVC still sucks dick. Ruby is still for hipsters.

Now you may be asking, what changed my mind? Business mostly. I get it. I still think frameworks are terrible for new programmers, but I think once you got your shit down, framework up. :xmas-smiley-010: <--a snowman in hell
 


jboeckman said:
also aren't most frameworks MVC?
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Some are, but it depends on your definition of a framework. Is jQuery a framework? Some would say yes, some would say no. If I had to pick a framework that wasn't MVC (at least the last time I checked) Codeignightor isn't.

But you are right, a lot of them are... for whatever fucked up reason, like everyone wants to write MVC. Fuck that noise.
 
jboeckman said:
Yii is a pretty good framework. What do you use?
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The framework I am talking about specifically is Bootstrap it's not a full on programming framework but it sure is nice if you're trying to crank out say, admin area kind of shit.

Programming frameworks I mean I guess I technically have my own built.
 
Rage9 said:
The framework I am talking about specifically is Bootstrap it's not a full on programming framework but it sure is nice if you're trying to crank out say, admin area kind of shit.

Programming frameworks I mean I guess I technically have my own built.
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that's not a framework brotha man, that's a front end theme and some javascript plugins.

You're on the right track though because you're realizing that writing a bunch of boilerplate code is a bullshit waste of time. next you'll realize that backend frameworks provide the same kind of development speed ups as something like Bootstrap on the front end. And then you'll realize that nearly all modern web frameworks use MVC because it is the most widely used and accepted development pattern in this industry you call home for your profession and you'll join us on that ship too. Then we'll drink lots of beer and rejoice in the fact that we'll never write an authentication library again simply for the sake of bumping up our lines of code written for the week.
 
Rage9 said:
Some are, but it depends on your definition of a framework. Is jQuery a framework? Some would say yes, some would say no. If I had to pick a framework that wasn't MVC (at least the last time I checked) Codeignightor isn't.

But you are right, a lot of them are... for whatever fucked up reason, like everyone wants to write MVC. Fuck that noise.
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also, codeigniter is absolutely an MVC framework. Let me screenshot the folder tree of it so you can see:

5anxo2wv5ol8.png


Model
View
Controller
 
Imagine not repeating your database schema once when you make your database and once when you write your code interactions with your database. Less mistakes, less work, et voila, ORM!
 
Meh, I dislike MVC in most cases. (Regarding PHP) I re-use a common library base, and slap everything on-top of Smarty. Seriously, Smarty is awesome, and I see no reason why any serious coder wouldn't want to use it over raw PHP templating.

Views on the other hand are fucking retarded. Half the time they mess with component flow, and the other half of the time, it's just wasted lines of code. Extending Smarty's display method can deal with 99% of all session/client based custom view requirements in only a few lines of code for the entire project.
 
mattseh said:
Imagine not repeating your database schema once when you make your database and once when you write your code interactions with your database. Less mistakes, less work, et voila, ORM!
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Traditional SQL ORM is for n00bs and coders with minimal traffic volume.
 
dchuk said:
also, codeigniter is absolutely an MVC framework. Let me screenshot the folder tree of it so you can see:

5anxo2wv5ol8.png


Model
View
Controller
Click to expand...

Actually here's some more evidence that Codeignitor is MVC (look at the PHP section of frameworks):

Model

There is good and bad to working with public frameworks, but working with a framework in general is good practice. I built and maintain my own private framework which does everything I need this helps me avoid bloating my code with shit I don't need.
 
In the CS sense there's no escaping MVC with 3GL+ languages, any composite or compound data structure is a model, anything capable of rendering machine or human-readable output is a view, and anything with logic and state abstractions is a controller. CI is a MVC framework in the J2EE code silos sense, but the M part of CI is generally disregarded as it's janky crap.
 
JCash said:
the M part of CI is generally disregarded as it's janky crap.
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this I absolutely agree with, their ORM (it's barely an ORM) is shit and the whole model system in CI is pretty terrible compared to Django or Rails. I think that's partially due to the limitations of PHP though
 
A PHP request's lifecycle and context are not as narrowly defined as could be to make controllers a practical paradigm, there's lots of ways for the PHP coders to introduce if, ands, buts and lolwuts that would be out of bailiwick in better thought-out web application environments that tend to sabotage the concept of request/response management by controllers in PHP.
 
Insomniac said:
I know I've build multiple platforms that serve significantly more traffic than you ever have, so I really don't give a fuck what you think.

53306%20-%20cheerilee%20fucks_given%3A_zero%20image_macro%20macro.png
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all thanks to testing ORM versus raw SQL and making an educated choice to use raw SQL because it proved to provide substantial speed increases amirite? Or did you just do raw SQL and call it quits? I NEED DATA BRAH
 
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