Calling Out All Affiliate Networks: When Will You Give Up Personal Info?

Wow. Great thread idea. I know I have personally had issues like this with networks when they were contacted by lawyers etc asking for my info and they are generally very hesitant to give me a solid answer on at what point they would release my info. It shouldn't be anything less than a subpoena in my opinion but I'm curious to see what networks will have the balls to answer this with a legitimate answer. Good stuff.

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regarding this whole thing, figured i'd just throw this idea out here... have a link to saying "This is an advertisement" linking to a page basically explaining that some truths were stretched, this shit is made up, etc etc, use at your own risk.

Put it on the bottom right of your page in some pretty hard to read text .... might cover you in the long run

I wont answer for all networks but in most standard agreements it will state that your information will be given up for a subpoena or if you violated any third parties rights.

In the context of the FTC coming knocking, i would guess that any .network will eventually give your information to them either willingly or by force.

The best way to avoid that is to play by the rules. In our world the FTC will enforce whats called section 5 of their code which relates to misleading and false advertisements. You want to ensure that your ads are not false or misleading. You cant say you will lose 40lbs in a week if there is no documentation proving it. Without proof that Becky exists the (insertnamehereweightlossblog.com) technique could be considered misleading.

Also if you think the FTC is working on something that has gotten big in the past two months you are probably very wrong. The FTC investigates for a long time before they do anything, and it usually takes them years to identify something to investigate. Look at how long ringtones ran, or debt consolidation companies, enron, travel clubs, etc...

For affiliates make sure you are not misleading or being false to consumers. It is OK to use logos of news outlets if the product was featured on it, its OK to set up your own review site as its your opinion. But its not OK to make claims that are not true.

The FTC will subpoena your host for your information, not the networks. Ad networks act as a basic conduit for advertisements, similar to the newspapers, magazines, or TV commercials. The networks involvement is non-existent in this issue.

Everyones paranoia will kill the diet space before it even starts, you guys need to operate under one rule, make sure your ads are truthful, if they are you have nothing to worry about, if the product really helps you to flush pounds is not your concern, the company is the one asserting those claims you are taking their materials and distributing it, if its wrong its the advertiser who has to deal with it.

I would say there are close to 25K orders of acai a DAY, 750K a month, do you think the 86 complaints you see online are a lot in comparison? if you spent $750K and made $86 is it a lot?

And the complaints are due to growing pains more than anything, if you want to do something about the complaints stop marketing the offer for a week

but mike........THE SKY IS FALLING! TURN OFF YOUR ADS PEOPLE!!!

@ mkrongel Good in-depth answer but I would really like to know at what point you and other networks would give out a publishers info in general to any lawyer who comes knocking. Not just the FTC or Acai related stuff but anything. For example if a mother calls her laywer because she saw her kid in an ad promoting something and it gets to your networks at what point would you give her lawyer the publishers info? really the question is would it take a subpeana or much less before you would give it out? I would love to get this answer from more networks but I have a feeling you are one of the few who will even respond to this thread.

nickycakes said:

but mike........THE SKY IS FALLING! TURN OFF YOUR ADS PEOPLE!!!

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yeah youre right, i think everyone should pack up and go home.

WayneDog said:

@ mkrongel Good in-depth answer but I would really like to know at what point you and other networks would give out a publishers info in general to any lawyer who comes knocking. Not just the FTC or Acai related stuff but anything. For example if a mother calls her laywer because she saw her kid in an ad promoting something and it gets to your networks at what point would you give her lawyer the publishers info? really the question is would it take a subpeana or much less before you would give it out? I would love to get this answer from more networks but I have a feeling you are one of the few who will even respond to this thread.

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For us a subpoena requesting it or proof that you violated someones rights. If someone calls because you used a pic we will tell them we will talk to you to resolve it. If you dont resolve it and they get a subpoena then your info is going to them, usually resolving it makes everyone happy and they go away.

Violating third parties rights is more like if you spam sites like myspace and myspace shows us the spam proving it was you we will give up your info.

I think the above is the only time we ever gave up someones info, and that was after telling them not to spam myspace because if they do and myspace catches them we will give them your info, and the affiliate still spammed them. Contractually i can not give up your info without a subpoena or proof of you violating someones rights. If i do i am in breech of my contract with affiliates

WayneDog said:

I would love to get this answer from more networks but I have a feeling you are one of the few who will even respond to this thread.

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I have a feeling you're right about this.

mkrongel said:

For us a subpoena requesting it or proof that you violated someones rights. If someone calls because you used a pic we will tell them we will talk to you to resolve it. If you dont resolve it and they get a subpoena then your info is going to them, usually resolving it makes everyone happy and they go away.

Violating third parties rights is more like if you spam sites like myspace and myspace shows us the spam proving it was you we will give up your info.

I think the above is the only time we ever gave up someones info, and that was after telling them not to spam myspace because if they do and myspace catches them we will give them your info, and the affiliate still spammed them. Contractually i can not give up your info without a subpoena or proof of you violating someones rights. If i do i am in breech of my contract with affiliates

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Makes sense and that is how I would expect any network I deal with to handle those type of situations.

I like how the president of a top affiliate network is an active poster on here, shows he actually cares about the affiliates. More networks need to take the initiative and get more involved. Tip of my hat to you Mike.

FWIW, I was making some chump change, off of someones trademark. The company I was violating contacted Neverblue for my info, and gave them a C&D.

Neverblue contacted me, gave me all the stuff that was sent to them, and said I could handle it. I ended the campaign, and all was good.

Yep,

It's already been covered but a subpoena is the only way I would ever give up anything but more importantly as a network owner and manager it should NEVER come to that point. Seriously.

Even with a subpoena the affiliate should be contacted FIRST and foremost before a network issues anything. We get into owning a network KNOWING the risks involved. Anyone that treats it otherwise is a pussy and more importantly, a shitty business.

I've personally had the FTC shut me down on a digital product website. Some here already know about this. It took them nearly a year from first contact to actually come up with enough bullshit to bully me into shutting it down. The BBB on the other hand was so much easier to deal with.

I've also settled out of court with a large social network. Even though I was indeed at fault, it took them nearly 9 months to actually get everything together to issue an ultimatum which I accepted before any paperwork for court was issued.

As far as actually receiving complaints. This has happened ALOT recently. Very easy to handle. Each situation is unique. As an owner you have to have that instinct and feel out what you think the worst case scenario is going to be. Inform the affiliate of the situation/complaint. Work to resolve the pending issue.

With the publishers permission and correspondence, issue a reply to the complaint saying what has been resolved. If they are dickheads and hassle you it simply comes to a point where you tell them that you have in fact banned the affiliate from your network.

Aint gonna sugarcoat it here and I doubt we see anyone else mustering the nuts to actually say this even though I can name 3 of the most well known networks out there that have done this very thing with myself as an affiliate. Ban them, resign them. Educate. Profit.

Dont give anyone shit until it comes to the point of where you have to. We dont give out shit on publishers/advertisers. We have been in situations ourselves and if you are working with someone who HASNT been in these types of situations, you are at risk.

Mike has the best response here but there are SO many ways you can avoid ever having to give out information. Honestly, it's going to come to a subpoena before I would ever even THINK about telling anyone ANYTHING.

I've been in these types of situations as an affiliate and owner I've been able to handle every complaint without having to ever issue any other information other than an apology, the problem is being taken care of, or the offending affiliate has been removed from our network.

This is cut and dry and very simple. If your network is willing to give up info on you BEFORE anything other than a subpoena. Your working with pussies. Plain and simple.

Ruck said:

This is cut and dry and very simple. If your network is willing to give up info on you BEFORE anything other than a subpoena. Your working with pussies. Plain and simple.

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Well said. This is why I just signed up with Convert2Media the other day.

nice to see replies from the network owners

Ruck said:

This is cut and dry and very simple. If your network is willing to give up info on you BEFORE anything other than a subpoena. Your working with pussies. Plain and simple.

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While I agree with most of what Mike and Ruck have posted above, there is a situation beyond subpoena for which I'd give out info - and I have to say that certainly don't think I'm being a pussy about it.

You fuck with my business, I'm going to fuck with yours. You use my network to generate a shitload of fake leads for which the merchant gets so pissed off that he refuses to pay me even for the good leads that were generated by other affiliates, I can tell you I'll be more than happy to give the merchant your info.

I'm not talking about garden variety craigslist spammers, affiliates who incentivize campaigns that don't allow it, or other small-time activities. There are many affiliates I've terminated from MB and never give out their info. I'm talking about the hardcore cheaters looking to deliberately create thousands of bad leads. They're committing fraud, and arguably breaking the law. These people have no rights to privacy.

Regarding subpoena's - I've never had to deal with them. I guess being in Canada adds too much hassle level for the average company looking for blood.

I definitely agree with all the network owners that posted. In almost all cases, we wouldn't give out any personal information of the affiliate until we receive a subpoena. Affiliates choose network's because of the protection, because they know that they will be paid, even if the advertiser bails, because they know that they have a mutual party on their side. So, it is the network's duty to protect the affiliate as much as possible, up to the point of a subpoena. Out of the hundreds of complaints the network may receive, only a handful may even lead up to a subpoena. That being said, we obviously shouldn't be handing out affiliate information like candy.

Second of all, there are cases where a subpoena wouldn't be needed. As Steve mentioned above. If the affiliate intentionally screwed over the advertiser and/or the network, then the affiliate's information should be given to the complaints side. We as a network should not support ANY clear illegal activity.